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Trainsmag.com has just reported that Amtrak's Adirondack will be replaced by buses between Albany, N.Y., and Montreal from October 10 through 12 due to trackwork on Caniadian Pacific's Delaware & Hudson subsidiary. The buses will make all of the train's stops north of Albany-Rennselaer.
Meanwhil out west, Union Pacific will replace a drawbridge on its line used by Amtrak trains between and San Jose, from October 27 to November 9. During the project, Capitol Corridor trains will originate and terminate at Oakland, with buses providing service to stations south of Oakland. The long-distance Coast Starlight will detour on an alternate UP route between Oakland and San Jose, but passengers will not be permitted to ride the while on the detour route. Instead, a bus will shuttle passengers between the two stations, after which they will reboard the train to continue their journey. During the UP bridge project, ALtamont Commuter Express trains will terminate and originate at Fremont.
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I think it is rediculous that passengers will not be allowed to ride the train between San Jose and Oakland on the UP reroute track. I hope Amtrak compensates passengers somehow; at the least the Sleeping car passengers. Also, isn't that going to interrupt dinner and breakfast. That part of the route is right smack in the middle of breakfast southbound and the latter half of dinner northbound.
Posts: 134 | From: New York, New York USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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I HATE bustitution with a PASSION, and I don't even ride first class. If I want to take the bus, I'll take Greyhound, aka a sardine can on wheels! However, trackwork can't be avoided unfortunately.. I just try to get lucky and avoid bustitutions..
Posts: 140 | From: Albany, NY | Registered: Mar 2001
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I agree with LakeShoreLimited. I don't travel first class either.
Amtrak seems to take the easy way out a lot of times by providing busses. If they do have to provide busses instead of trains, then Amtrak should be required to refund a huge amount of the fare.
------------------ Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale) www.geocities.com/evrr
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Does Amtrak policy provide first class &/or coach passengers refunds for necessary (forced) bus travel along a rail route?
Posts: 218 | Registered: Mar 2001
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Let's be realistic here: Amtrak is a *transport* company, not a *tour* company. Like most transportation companies, I believe Amtrak's written policy is to get you from A to B by any means possible. That includes buses. In addition, Amtrak are strapped for cash as it is, and giving a huge refund is not going to solve their problems.
Instead, customers should be informed of the bustitution when they book, or contacted when the plans change (ie when buses are substituted after the ticket has been bought) and asked whether they would like to travel on a different date.
Geoff Mayo.
Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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I agree that Amtrak is in the transportation business. However, in "selling" their long distance routes they often refer to the tour or sightseeing aspects of the train.
Except in unforeseen circumstances getting from point A to point B by "any means possible" is not what most long distance passengers would agree too.
First class & coach passengers do deserve refunds for forced bus travel. Yes, Amtrak has financial problems but it is not the fare paying passenger who should bail Amtrak out. The passenger pays for an excepted level of service & if Amtrak fails to deliver and a refund is not received Amtrak will probably lose more passengers and be in even worse shape. The financial problems Amtrak is in can only be solved by Government assistance and a needed commitment by Amtrak to improve overall customer service.
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A bus substitution is only justified in a true emergency. Unfortunately, Amtrak does not hesitate to put its so-called "guests" on busses with the flimsiest of excuses. The most outrageous bus substitutions occur when a train is running very late. How many times have first class passengers on the Texas Eagle been bussed from Dallas/Forth Worth to various places in 2000/2001? Amtrak tried to put me on a bus from Dallas to El Paso last Christmas only because we were 12 hours late--there was no emergency. I refused this so-called alternate transportation given the fact that I paid for a deluxe bedroom not a bus. I am currently involved in litigation with Amtrak over this issue (I won my case but they are appealing) as they flat out refused to compensate me for any of my expenses or refund the price of my ticket. All they offered me was a voucher for $250 not valid during the Christmas period (the only time I travel on Amtrak). If passengers stopped acting like sheep when they are told to board the bus and start suing instead--Amtrak may finally get the message that people hate busses and won't put up with this nonsense any longer.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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CK, You said it perfectly. It is not the customer's fault that Amtrak is low on money. Amtrak will never get respect from congress and the American public until they are able to treat the customers with the respect they deserve.
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Via is also sometimes naughty in putting passengers on a bus for no reason other than the train is very late. The "Canadian" has a rather tight turnaround in Vancouver and an overnight turnaround in Toronto. Until last spring, the "Canadian" was in danger of being a Capreol to Kamloops train, with bus connections between Kamloops and Vancouver and between Capreol and Toronto. I have met people who were put on buses at Capreol at 9:00 p.m. for a trip down to Toronto, arriving at 4:00 a.m. This outrage doesn't appear to have occurred for a year and a half in the east, although I am aware of a Kamloops-Vancouver situation in August.
I wonder what Amtrak or Via would do if a large number of passengers refused to leave a late train and simply occupied it, perhaps singing: "We shall not be moved!" The police could hardly evict people who hold a written contract when there is no genuine emergency. Via doesn't appear to be pulling that stunt lately, however. Tonight's Toronto arrival (due 8:00 p.m.) is posted as tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. One suspects that the 9:00 a.m. departure time for Vancouver will not be met.
[This message has been edited by David (edited 10-26-2001).]
quote:Originally posted by royaltrain: If passengers stopped acting like sheep when they are told to board the bus and start suing instead--Amtrak may finally get the message that people hate busses and won't put up with this nonsense any longer.
I hope you are your own lawyer! By the time you get through with the litigation it will probably cost more than your original ticket!
[This message has been edited by Kent Loudon (edited 10-26-2001).]
Posts: 75 | From: Somerville, NJ USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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A follow-up to my previous posting re Via's bus service between Capreol and Toronto: The "Canadian" due in Toronto Friday evening is not arriving Saturday morning after all. Bus substitution will be used, arriving at 6:00 p.m., almost 24 hours late. Of course, without a 22-car consist to depart Toronto, today's westbound passengers will be treated to a bus excursion to Capreol. The reason for this horrendous delay according to Via: a freak snowstorm which blew trees on to the line. At one time, Canadian National had sufficient personnel to keep tracks open in severe weather, but with thousands laid off (and apparently more to come according to the Globe and Mail,) such luxuries as quick repairs to signals and tracks are a thing of the past.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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In answer to Kent Loudon's posting: yes I am acting as my own lawyer. This is just a small claims action for $1000. Small claims courts in most jurisdictions have simplified rules and the costs are minimal, so if the courthouse is convenient to where you live or work I think it is worth the effort.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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I have to say that I agree with RoyalTrain in his particular situation. If you paid for a deluxe bedroom from Point A to Point C, but only got the Deluxe Bedroom from Point A to Point B and then had to be bussed to Point C, a prorated refund is most definitely in order.
Posts: 134 | From: New York, New York USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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Let's take an example of a passenger traveling from Los Angeles to Sacramento. Let's say the train is annuled in San Jose & the passenger bussed to Sacramento. The accomodation charge to both of these cities from Los Angeles is the same. By Amtrak's calculation you would recieve no refund for the time you lost the availability of the sleeper. Another example would be from Los Angeles to Portland or Seattle. Room charge the same, so, if you were kicked out of your room in Portland & bussed to Seattle, you would be entitled to no refund. Like it or not, that's the way Amtrak figures it. Reggie
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You might not be "entitled" to a refund, however, Amtrak might not be "entitled" to a repeat passenger. Both lose, nobody gains. That's why it's so important for Amtrak to focus it's energy on things it can control such as customer service & satisfaction.
Posts: 218 | Registered: Mar 2001
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Here's something that happened to me almost ten years ago. I was traveling from Chicago to Portland on the Empire Builder. My sleeper was bad ordered in Havre Montana & I rode coach to portland. I was allowed into the diner for my meals but spent a night in coach. On arrival into Portland, I was told I would get a refundequal to the difference in fare, CHI-PDX, CHI-HAV. It wound up to be about 20% of the room charge. Not a great deal as far as I was concerned. I was also told I'd have to send in to Amtrak for the refund. I then boarded the southbound Coast Starlight to Sacramento, having a coach seat on that segment. The coach I was in had many children, including several infants & I was up all night. When I arrived into Sacramento I was supposed to leave on the Cal Zephyr to Chicago that afternoon. I spoke with the agent at the station & it seemed like I was dealing with another company compared to the experience I had in Portland. The agent said she could exchange the unused portion I was displace from my sleeper, HAV-PDX, for a room from Salt Lake City to Chicago. I thought that to be a fair trade. She said there was no sleeper space on that days train, but could get me a room the next day. She also put me up in a hotel for the night at Amtraks expense. To be continued Reggie
Posts: 462 | From: Bakersfield Ca., 93312 | Registered: Jul 2000
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The next day I arrived at the station & went to the conductor & explained my situation. He said he had good & bad news for me. The bad news was I'd not be able to get a standard sleeper from Salt Lake City as I'd been promised. The good news was I would be in a deluxe bedroom from Sacramento all the way to Chicago. That was great as far as I was concerned. After leaving Omaha we learned that a freight had derailed east of Omaha & the train would be going back to Omaha. All passengers not going through to Chicago would be bussed to their destinations. Since the train would be detoured north via another route to Chicago it would be very late into Chicago. All passengers going to Chicago were also offered bus service which would get them into Chicago just a couple of hours late. I decided to stay on board, in my deluxe bedroom & with only about 50 or so other passengers arrived into Chicago at about 2 AM, about 12 hours late. Amtrak also put me up in a hotel overlooking the Chicago River, I believe the Executive House, were I enjoyed the view of a raging blizzard. I then made my connection the next day on the Southwest Chief to Los Angeles. I guess the morale of the story is you just have to talk to the right person. Overall I had a great trip & even traveled some miles most people haven't ridden in quite some time. Reggie
Posts: 462 | From: Bakersfield Ca., 93312 | Registered: Jul 2000
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I have found that Amtrak has many very poor employees who could care less about customer satisfaction. They also have a few excellent employees who do their very best to make the customer happy. It is too bad that they all can't be like the employeees Reggierail had experience with.
------------------ Elias Valley Railroad (N-scale) www.geocities.com/evrr
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Konstantin, I have traveled almost 200,000 miles on Amtrak over the last10 years. I must say thet the service for the most part has been getting better all the time. The reservation agents, station services(with the exception of Chicago), On Board services & operating crews have been working with less amenities they can offer the guests & have had to make up for that with personal touches. I applaud the, IMHO, much better service provided by the majority of Amtrak employees. Reggie
Posts: 462 | From: Bakersfield Ca., 93312 | Registered: Jul 2000
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