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Does anybody know what food services are available on Amtrak's intercity trains that lack dining cars (e.g. the Pennsylvanian?) The website suggests that they have the lounge car snack services that are available on lounge cars on other intercity trains. Do they have an expanded menu or do they have the same highs and lows available on other intercity trains? (Highs: Price, fat, calories; Lows: Portion size, selection, availability, taste.) Thanks for any info you can provide.
Posts: 72 | Registered: Jul 2000
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Well, that depends... If memory serves me, the Pennsylvanian has the "snack" menu which includes a couple of hot sandwiches (and microwave White Castles) while the Three Rivers has at least a couple of "dinner dishes." Both trains have the usual selection of snacks, candy bars, soft drinks, juice, decent coffee and beer/booze. If you just want snacks/candy/soft drinks, you'd do better to bring along some Snapple and a bag of chips, maybe a coupla candy bars. Don't plan to eat well because there just isn't much to be had and its sometimes pricey. Also worth consideration, these cars have limited storage capacity and can run out of supplies on trains delayed by hours (or days) as has been common in recent weeks. I've been on these trains when the attendant was hard to find and when the attendant had groceries and supplies picked up and delivered to trainside enroute to restock the car, so that's iffy, too. The crews seem to be friendly on both trains, although they like to keep one car "closed" and stuff everyone into one car on light days. Now about those White Castle microwave cheeseburgers...
Posts: 6 | From: Burlington, KY USA | Registered: Dec 2000
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The food in the snack car is typical junk food fare. The microwaved stuff tends to be tasteless.
Posts: 62 | Registered: Jul 2000
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Thanks for the info. I was afraid of that; a couple of years ago I rode the Adirondack - the first (and only) trip I took on a train without a dining car. The menu was the same as the lounges on the long-distance trains. I was hoping that Amtrak made better food available on trains that didn't have a dining car. Would it kill Amtrak to offer healthy foods such as fresh friut or packaged salads on their trains? Oh, well, we'll just pack a lunch for the trip. I assume also that Amtrak still has the policy of not allowing passengers to consume food in the lounge car that was not purchased there. My two cents - Amtrak needs more dining cars - desperately!
> My two cents - Amtrak needs more dining > cars - desperately!
That would certainly help the Three Rivers a lot and attract more riders, taking pressure off of the Lake Shore Limited for the Chciago-NYC market--and I believe Amtrak does not have a diner shortage (unlike the situation with the sleeping cars.) So why don't they add a diner? It just seems very strange. Bureaucracy at work again... The Pennsylvanian on the other hand is used more for shorter journeys, for example Cleveland-Phil. etc. so there is less demand for a diner. It could still use one, but it probably wouldn't affect things that much. All-day runs like the Vermonter also could really use a diner. The other strange thing is that in the Western short-distance runs (i.e. Santa Barbara-LA-Sandiego and Eugene-Portland-Seattle), the food in the cafe cars is said to be much better. Why couldn't they simply serve the same food in the rest of the country? Like most corporations in my opinion, Amtrak is run by some real dimwits.
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JSChicago, I'm not sure you're right about AMTRAK not having a diner shortage for eastern trains. Last spring I took the Lake Shore Limited from Chicago to NY. It left Chicago without the dining car. I later learned that its eastbound counterpart left New York the day before without its diner. So no spare diners were available in Chicago.
I suspect AMTRAK is as lean on full service dining cars as it is on Viewliner sleepers. I also suspect that the scarcity of dining cars is due to deferred maintenance in an effort to "reduce" AMTRAK's out-of-pocket losses.
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I understand that there are only 17 "Heritage" dining cars left in service. I don't know if that includes the one Viewliner dining car in service, but even if it doesn't, that only leaves 18 cars (which are probably 45 years old, on average. I still can't figure out what happened to the single-level dining cars that were used on the Capitol Ltd, Cardinal, and City of New Orleans before they were equipped with Superliners; surely there had to be many more dining cars then...
Thanks for the info. Yes, I've heard that California and Cascades trains have much more palatable menus.
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At leased those trains HAVE food services. The local passenger train where I live uses two RDC-1's. One of the RDC's has a Snack bar but because VIA Rail doesn't want to spend any extra money on the run the snack bar is used for baggage.
At least those trains HAVE food services. The local passenger train where I live uses two RDC-1's. One of the RDC's has a Snack bar but because VIA Rail doesn't want to spend any extra money on the run the snack bar is used for baggage. ----------- And you always hear that the service on VIA is far superior to Amtrak... That's interesting. I also read somewhere that VIA, according to a spokesperson, was trying to "make the same level of investment into passenger rail that the U.S. has, which we have failed to do." What investment? What are they talking about? Is it possible that an industrialized country could care even less than America about passenger railroads? It would certainly make me feel better about our country.
------------------ Peace,
Jack S. Chicago, IL
[This message has been edited by JSChicago (edited 01-07-2001).]
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The VIA trains that have food services, have food service that is by far superior to Amtrak. But one of the RDC runs, well, the E&N RaiLiner (the train I mentioned before) has a catering truck pull up beside the train while the train is on Layover in Nanaimo and Courtenay.
Posts: 26 | From: Sooke, BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2001
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I have ridden the 3 Rivers & Vermonter several times in the last 2 years. I beg to differ but they do have an expanded menu on both of these trains. The deli sandwiches are very good & fresh fruit & salads were available on all of the trains that I rode. Gourmet cookies & fruit was also available on the 3 Rivers in the sleeping car for the benefit of the sleeper passengers. I don't believe either of these trains could support a full service dining car even if they were available. Just the personel alone would require at least 3 additional employees & another non-revenue car. Most of the long haul trains in the west of 2-3 days duration could not support a diner were it not for the sleeper passengers. Yours Reggie
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by reggierail: another non-revenue car. Most of the long haul trains in the west of 2-3 days duration could not support a diner were it not for the sleeper passengers. Yours Reggie
errr, ah, is that fact or opinion, Reggie? I've been on most of the western long distance trains and plenty of coach passengers use the dining car, particularly for breakfast and dinner, lunch less so.
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Actually it's an historical fact that dining car service has never been a profitable venture. The railroads have lost money & have used it as an enticement to lure passengers onto their trains. I seriously doubt that the revenue from meal service in the diner even covers the cost of food & wages of OBS employees in the dining car, to say nothing of the cost of the car itself. Reggie
quote:Originally posted by reggierail: I have ridden the 3 Rivers & Vermonter several times in the last 2 years. I beg to differ but they do have an expanded menu on both of these trains. The deli sandwiches are very good & fresh fruit & salads were available on all of the trains that I rode. Gourmet cookies & fruit was also available on the 3 Rivers in the sleeping car for the benefit of the sleeper passengers. I don't believe either of these trains could support a full service dining car even if they were available. Just the personel alone would require at least 3 additional employees & another non-revenue car. Most of the long haul trains in the west of 2-3 days duration could not support a diner were it not for the sleeper passengers. Yours Reggie
As the mail and express train the Three Rivers has become, perhaps. But the diner was well-patronized on AMTRAK's successor train, the Broadway Limited, which was operated as a passenger train for the purpose of carrying passengers, in contrast to the Three Rivers, which is a passenger trains operated to haul mail and express.
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The E&N RaiLiner has a crew of two people, the Conductor and the Engineer, because the train consists of one or two RDC's only two crew members are needed. If VIA were to add on train food services it would require an extra crew member. The only beverage served on the train is the water out of the fountain, which is awful.
If on a rare occasion that all three RDC's are running on the train then there will be a brakeman to assist the conductor, but the lst time all three RDCs ran on the same train was 1986.
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SOunds like the E&R RaiLiner train should at least have a beverage machine. I traveled on the Ocean a couple of years ago and they had one in the Skyline lounge car. I think it's a great idea - FOR BEVERAGES ONLY. If Amtrak did it, it would shorten the lines in the lounge cars aboard Amtrak trains for those making food purchases. Plus, the space freed up by having cans in the machine and not under the counter could be used to store other items - like fresh fruit for purchase!
Posts: 72 | Registered: Jul 2000
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The entire operation of the E&N dayliner service is a disgrace for which Via should be ashamed. The run is very scenic and has possibilities. This train was to be discontinued in the Mulroney cut-backs of 1990, but the Supreme Court of B.C. ruled such discontinuance unconstitutional, so it kept going. The Dominion government appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada, which ruled that the train could indeed be eliminated. Fortunately for travellers, the new government of Jean Chretien, notwithstanding the ruling, kept it going due to popular demand. The RDCs being used are pieces of junk that have not been rebuilt like the rest of the Via fleet. They are prone to breakdowns and therefore bus substitutions. On my trips to Vancouver Island, I used to always make a point of taking a trip on the E&N. In the summer of 1998 I tok my family, including my elderly mother, from Victoria to Nanaimo for the day. We got to Nanaimo all right, but the return train didn't arrive from Courtney. The only Via agent on the island is in Victoria and there is no telephone in the Nanaimo station. Fortunately, a lovely lady who is the part-time custodian of the station came by to tell us that one of the two RDCs had broken down and the train would be replaced by busses. We had to wait three hours at this hot station and could not go anywhere for drinks or snacks because no-one knew when the bus would come. Although the train was quite full northbound (due to a tour group) the southbound load was much smaller. If Via wanted to, they could have accomodated everyone in the one remaining RDC and left the other one in a siding, but no, that would make too much sense. We talked to several local residents who say the train breaks down frequently. In fairness to Via, many problems are caused by motorists and truck drivers who cause level crossing collisions. There is also word from Via that the RDCs will be re-engined. It would be nice if there was some sort of snack service on board, but the priority must be to get the equipment to run reliably. On my last two visits to the island, I didn't risk a train trip. I wonder how many others are avoiding this lovely run.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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The reason there is no telephone at the station in Nanaimo is because vandals ripped it off and CPR was to cheap to put up another one.
Oh, you rode it in 1998. Well, since the Rail America take over the cars have been much cleanier, and ever since Point Hope Shipyards took over maintenance of the RDC's this year there was only one break down. We even have a new car, no. 6130.
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Oh, one more thing. The E&N RaiLiner was never discontinued, there was a threat of it being discontinued in 1994 after the Commonwealth Games that were held in Victoria.
Posts: 26 | From: Sooke, BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2001
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I'm glad to hear that the E&N is doing a better job at maintaining the RDCs. With Via's committment to re-engine these cars, there should be a good future for the service. My last visit to Victoria was this past November. Being unable to persuade any local friends to take a ride on the RDC with me, I walked up to the station (which, incidentally, is the most charming small station in the country) to see it leave. It departed on time with, sadly, only eight passengers on board. I have many fond memories of trips on this line. Our favourite way to travel from Vancouver to Victoria has always been via Nanaimo, originally by using the CPR's lovely ferry "Princess of Vancouver" and more recently the BC Ferries with bus connections.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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It seems that the Pacific Wilderness Railway has boosted patronage for the VIA run. I guess its the people that ride the PAW(PAcific Wilderness) train to Mile 20 and want to see more of the E&N so they hop on the Dayliner. I've noticed that if they're running a single car it's usually been pretty full. But they have been running 6130 and 6135 together for most runs. 6133 is in Vancouver and 6148 is heading for an overhaul in Moncton.
Posts: 26 | From: Sooke, BC, Canada | Registered: Jan 2001
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Did you know that the Victoria Station is the fourth to serve as the southern Terminus. Built in 1985 on the exact spot of the staion that was torn down in 1972.
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Well since the E&N is likely to shut down by May I don't think there will be much in the way of improvements to the operations. VIA 6148 was held up at Montreal.
Posts: 7 | From: Sooke, BC, Canada | Registered: Apr 2002
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