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Author Topic: Safety this summer
dixiebreeze
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I would appreciate it if anyone can tell me how Amtrak is beefing up security for the summer vacations runs. Last time I traveled, it was somewhat up, but not noticably.
Posts: 133 | From: Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
George Harris
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The best security is that you do not see.

Remember:
Airplane crash = everybody dies (usually)
Train crash = nobody dies, or deaths are single digit numbers. (usually)

Terrorism will be hard put to do to trains as much as stupidity has on one occasion. (Driving a barge up a non-navigatible branch into a bridge.)

In short, relax, don't worry. It is a lot harder to do major damage to a railroad than you would think. Don't believe the train disaster movies, either.


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dixiebreeze
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Thank you George. Encouraging words. I usually feel very safe on a train and I will take your advice.
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Mike Smith
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If you see a work group laying track to the front of a building, I would suggest that you call the FBI.

Other than that, I wouldn't worry about it.


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dixiebreeze
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OK Mike, I won't worry about it. Usually, once I'm aboard, nothing bothers me -- unless I miss my connection. But I've even become used to that!
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DeeCT
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Have just returned from a trip on the Lakeshore Limited and Southwest Chief. Security is still pretty much unobtrusive. (But more noticeable than in the past.) I was, for the first time ever, asked twice to show a picture ID. Both times when checking in through luggage. As part of this multi city trip I had a stretch on an Amtrak connector bus. In the bus station we were quickly checked with a wand. (Bus stations are ill-equipped to carry out this procedure. The floor is the only "table" to use when an offending cell phone sets the wand off.)At no time on the trains or in the train stations was security inconvenient. A few extra seconds and you are on your way.
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dixiebreeze
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Thanks DeeCT, believe me, I'm not concerned about any security "inconvenience" on the trip.

Plus, I always figure the train crews want to get where their going as much as I do!


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Yellowstonetim
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I think this is another area where railroad passenger travel will continue to vastly outperform the airline industry. While there are inherent logistical problems with security on American railroads, the risks are very different and far less than airlines encounter, in my opinion.

The first thing that comes to everyone's mind is that all that track cannot be protected. This is true, but damaging track or placing some sort of mine would be difficult. It would be very difficult to disrupt a passenger train ONLY, on at least the long distance trains. Derailments are already a fact of life railroads and Amtrak deal with, and these, in the great majority of cases, do not involve a great loss of life.

But for the vehicles themselves: jet airliner versus a passenger train the difference becomes very dramatic. A plane fits a large number of people into a small space that is very fragile. A very small bomb can bring total disaster. Also the people are in a small area and several determined passengers with small weapons can take over a plane very easily.

Not so with a train. Hijacking is almost a practical impossibility. Hijack the locomotive? The breaks get pulled and people leave. Take over the whole train? This would take a large number of people given how many cars a long distance train has. Also each car is isolated from the next so control of multiple cars, as opposed to one plane, would be difficult.

A bomb placed in luggage would not be fatal to the train and would likely only damage one or two cars.

I think good security by constant monitoring and maintenance of the right-of-way coupled with checking all people that check baggage will be sufficient. (It sounds like this is what is being done) An individual is of far less concern on a train than in an airplane so the draconian measures airports take are not necessary.

Therefore, even though railroads have miles of right-of-way to secure, railroads remain a far safer mode of travel compared to airlines in the case of terrorism.

The one place that might be different is a busy train station, but that is no different than a busy airport.

Unless of course there is a 10.5 earthquake, than all bets are off. A train might even be swallowed by the ground!


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Gilbert B Norman
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I think Ms. Dixie there is an issue about which you should be mindful while on your Amtrak trip; and that regards photography or imaging while about railroad property.

This matter has attracted considerable discussion at the various railroad message boards, and as such there can be diverging opinions as to the propriety, or even a civil right, of amateur railroad photography.

Since I have not taken a railroad photo in some 20 years, I believe I can recite objectively on this matter.

I believe you should "think twice" when using a camera/recorder either on board or about your Amtrak trains.

From the linked article circulating in the current Time magazine, it appears that photography/imaging of railroad equipment,way, or structures, can land one in the "do-do". Some hobbyists apparently feel any restraints place on rail photography is a civil rights violation, I'm afrafid it is simply the "facts of life" post-Madrid. "O tempora, O mores" so said Cicero.

By no means is this to suggest that there is a "problem" with "snapshots' of, say, your party boarding or alighting the train. I can't see a problem having an Amtrak employee in your photo as well provided you have their express permission to be imaged. Many are quite agreeable, but respect if they decline. Naturally, other passengers' perogative not to be imaged should be carefully respected, but this "common sense" convetion has been in place long before 9/11 or Madrid came into our vocabularies.

Further, I cannot see a problem with taking a scenery "shot" out the train window and if some of the train is included, so be it; but never, never attempt to open a window (such in the car's door opens, but not by UERME).

So, with this "heads up" in mind (somehow, from reading your postings I do not think you are a hobbyist), have a great trip.

Here's the link: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101040524-638410,00.html

[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 05-19-2004).]


Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dixiebreeze
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Thank you Gilbert for all the good info. I'm not a "hobbiest" per se, but am a long time (at least once a year coast to coast)train traveler and trainfan.

I have photographed crew, etc. in the past, because I'm a magazine editor/writer and needed pix to go with articles.

In fact, I wrote quite a lengthy article about the dining car, chef, foods, etc. a few years ago, with pix of all that. They loved it.

But now, it might be better to ask Amtrak for photos to accompany stories.


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dixiebreeze
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BTW, that's a feminine Dixiebreeze.
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chubbes
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1 thing is that if you were 2 place 1 bomb on the train that will kill only in that car. With a 13 car train like the Starlight you would have 2 put a bomb in every car. The train would go in2 Emergeny and the cars not efeected by the explosion would either drop on the ground(most likely not on the side) or the passengers would get whiplash from the jurk.
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Gilbert B Norman
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That you are not a hobbyist is duly noted and respected Ms. Dixie.

This board, when compared with the other two "majors", I find has a much greater constituency of "train lovers", or folks who could care little about railroad operations and even less about Amtrak's political environment, but cherish the enjoyment of the most "laid back" land travel experience to be found anywhere.

Glad you choose to participate.

GBN


Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
dixiebreeze
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Thank you GN, you are right about the laid back travel. Love it.

However, I actually am interested in rail operations and the politics thereof, since I'm very keen on keep our trains on track. I never understand why passenger travel isn't more respected by those who pull the strings.

I know it's slow compared to flying, but trains are still great people movers.


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Mike Smith
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Don't worry about the pictures. Between my wife & I, we took around 250 picures with no problems. We even got some clear shots of the Arch, with the help of a member of the train crew. (I'm not talking!)(You'll NEVER get the name out of me!!!)

[This message has been edited by mikesmith (edited 05-19-2004).]


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George Harris
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IMHO this whole thing about pictures is somewhere between paranoid and silly. As a railraod oriented civil engineer, most of my pictures are of tracks, trains, bridges, tunnels, etc. under construction, completed, in good condition, decrepit, and abandoned. If that is a crime, I will not see daylight for the next 1000 years.

I can see no imaginable problem taking pictures from and of trains when you are a passenger. I have never had any such, anywhere.

Yes, some judgment and circumspection is in order if taking pictures along the line. Dress reasonably nice for the conditions, but not enough so to attract muggers. Act with good sense.

Some of the hassling if probably sincere, but I would suspect a lot is giving the cop something to write up as an action without risking getting shot at.


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rresor
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I second Mr. Harris' comments. After all, consider the volume of photos ALREADY available to anyone via the Web. Not to mention detailed maps, track diagrams, employee timetables...I could go on, but why bother. Point is, in an open society such as ours a vast amount of data is available to anyone who looks. Trying to prevent people from taking photos of trains in that circumstance is not only silly, it's ineffective.

We're all becoming a bit hysterical these days. Remember, Germany survived nearly a decade of the Baader-Meinhof gang with its freedoms and its democracy intact.

There have been sporadic terrorist attacks throughout the civilized (and uncivilized) world for most of my adult life. It's not clear to me that the destruction of two tall buildings in New York has really changed much.


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Gilbert B Norman
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Moving away from photography, the Dept of Homeland Security issued a Press Release today regarding rail transportation.

As often the case, it is long on objectives, short on specifics. However, one should not become too "parted" with their luggage. The same level of "attachment" as at airports appears to be order of the day with rail travel as well.

Otherwise "read all about it": http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?content=3572


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dixiebreeze
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Thanks for the update, GBN. Nice to know.
Posts: 133 | From: Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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