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morseman
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note to jay........I'm also a junior member and agree with you. I'm a proud Canadian and I find it very amusing when I read the comments posted. I would love to argue with writers on the policies of Canada and U.S. on Free Trade, Iraq, Social Issues, Education, and especially medical care.

oh yes I almost forgot, relationships with foreign countries, .........however lets keep these forums open to rail related matters only.


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Mike Smith
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I wonder why no "reb" has responded....

{It's not my fault.... I'm a Texan...}


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JFB
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quote:
Originally posted by mikesmith:
I wonder why no "reb" has responded...

One word: Appomattox.

But honestly, much of the commentary here is about as convincing and substantive as the spelling of this topic is correct. Enlightened minds can make cases for both sides of this polarized election. But too often, our ideas--and decisions at the polls--come from the darkest pits of our guts.

The undoing of America will come not from Democrats or Republicans. It will come from us and our damn idiotic squabbling.


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George Harris
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"I wonder why no "reb" has responded"

I thought several had, but then some of us do know how to write a literate sentence, so maybe you didn't notice because we did not fit your prejudices.

No apologies for being one, either.

[This message has been edited by George Harris (edited 08-13-2004).]


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Mike Smith
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Mr Harris, you're a reb?

What's a reb? Is it short for rebel? Or is it a reference to the Confederacy?


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CoastStarlight99
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GREEN!!!!!!!

No just kidding,
Democrat

------------------
--Anton L.
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George Harris
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Reb is short for Rebel. My father considered it a somewhat low-class term for those who supported or were part of the Confederacy. He was right, but it is a very minor issue. We were no more rebels than John Adams, Patrick Henry, et al when they rebeled against England. The only difference is, we lost. To the best of my knowledge, my ancestry from that time were supporters of the Confederacy, even those who felt the cause was hopeless. Most of those in my ancestry that served were in the Army of Tennessee, some in Georgia troops, and at least one that rode with Nathan Forrest. No Yankees to my knowledge in either my or my wife's ancestry.

I will not get into the driving reasons here, but slavery was primarily the propoganda issue. Remember, history books are written by winners, and in the case of the US, apparently primarily in Boston, which is why the Pilgrims are given large play in the History books even though they ended up in Massachusetts primarily due to bad navigation or desperation (their objective was Virginia) as the Jamestown settlement had been in place for over 10 years. It has been said that the state with the largest number of revolutionary battlefields was New Jersey, and the final battle where Cornwallis surrenedered was in Virginia. Ask the Canadians their version of the war of 1812. The one I heard is that it was fought between the US and Canada and Canada won, otherwise, in their opinion Canada would not exist as a separate entity, but would be part of the US. Maybe not too far fetched considering the expansionist tendencies of some at the time. It has been well said that the War Between the States was actually fought over a verb tense, whether the United States "is" or the United States "are".


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JONATHON
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cant decide?

See the Movie "Fahrenheit 911"

You'd be suprized at what bush did to this country, they even have the video of bush being told about the Planes hitting the building then doing nothing, then the footage when the tell him the second plane had hit, and he still did nothing

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George Harris
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This is fiction. Actually, it is beyond that, it is propoganda. It is not in any sense a documentary as it postures itself to be. Read some of the discussions on this movie. Many, probably most, if not all of the events in the movie have been fictionailzed and mangled beyond all recognition to fit Moore's objective.

One item of explanation: If a person is defined as a political figure, the laws of libel and slander virtually do not apply, so Moore can create any scenario he likes without worrying about those he lied about taking him to court.


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boyishcolt
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George we must have had the same US History teacher i agree completley
that movie was a waste of film
no matter what party you believe in the movie was edited to one mans likeing.
interesting comments from those who have not even taken a US constitution test much less a goverment class

[This message has been edited by boyishcolt (edited 08-17-2004).]


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rresor
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I had hoped we could avoid partisan bickering (see my earlier post) but here we are again. Mr. Harris, my ancestors fought on both sides in the Civil War, but I wholly agree with your take on history. The Yankees could have hired Mr. Moore to write the history books. We celebrate "Thanksgiving" but there is no national celebration of the landing at Jamestown. The reason for this is as you say.

Now, for a real trivia question (also relevant to your point about the winners writing the history). What was the first permanent European settlement in North America? (hint: it was neither Plymouth nor Jamestown, and it's still inhabited)

To bring this back to trains, it is also served by a U.S. railroad (and not by carfloat, either).


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CoastStarlight99
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Farenheit 9/11"

Cons: Michael Moore is very radical.

Pros: There were several things that DEFFINETLY was not edited by Moore.

He did a good job on that film.

Also reccomend Bowling for Columbine and I want to see Roger & Me

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Capltd29
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Micheal Moore is a propagandist, but that does mean don't propagandize << don't know if it is a word, truthfully.

I am tired of people who haven't even seen the movie condemning it for being a lie.

It may be false, I don't know, but I doubt it.

I loved Bowling for C'bine.


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Gilbert B Norman
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A guess at Mr. Resor's trivia Q

Mexico(City).

Settled in the early 1500's

Served by the Grupo Transportacion
Ferroviaria Mexicana, SA de CV or TFM, which is partly owned by the Kansas City Southern


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Gilbert B Norman
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OK folks, since anything absent lewdness seems to go around here, here's one to "chomp' at.

Name THREE Amtrak stations whose names are derived (not necessarily named after) from that of a pagan who became a Saint.

Hint; two of the stations start with a Scarlet Letter

[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 08-17-2004).]


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TBlack
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I, too, think we ought to get off the politics - not getting anywhere but using up space. So I'll rise to the challenge of this religious question: how about St. Paul, and to qualify for one of the scarlet letters, San Antonio. I'm at a loss for the other one but just to "play the game" St. Albans!
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Gilbert B Norman
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You are on the right track Mr. Black.

Three Station's names derived from ONE man.


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TBlack
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Gad! Mr. Norman, I thought you were a CPA - why can't we have number-type questions from you? I'm much better at those!

OK, St. Paul certainly fits the parameters of part of your question. And I see that there's a Santa Paula, CA on the Amtrak list and a San Pedro - does that count? But I don't seem to be able to come up with the Scarlet Letter part. You've got to give me part credit anyway, right?

It's 5:30 EDT (martini time). I'll have to check in later and see how compassionate you are.


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Gilbert B Norman
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Mr. Black--

St Paul converted to Christianity from Judaism.

Not who I have in mind.

Oh well, we get away from one taboo topic (politics) and into another (religion).


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TBlack
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St Paul converted to Christianity from Judaism.

I knew that; just lost my head for a moment there.

How about Augusta, GA for starters? That REALLY fits all of your parameters.


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Gilbert B Norman
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Closer than St Paul, except that Amtrak does not serve Agusta, GA.

I'm looking for three STATIONS, at which trains stop, not religious figures.

You have been very close, Mr. Black.

Hint: I don't mean to talk religion around here, but my church, Episcopalian (Anglican), also recognizes Saints.

Note: This is not impossible, I guarantee you there is another Member here, who may or may not choose to participate, for whom this is a "who is buried in Grant's Tomb?" quiz question.


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JFB
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A much better-tasting course. I'll bite.

I think Mr. Norman is referring to Albany-Rensselaer, NY, St. Albans, VT, and Albany, OR. The honoree: St. Alban, a 4th-Century Romano-Briton soldier who sheltered a Christian priest, converted, and for his troubles promptly became the island's first martyr.

And speaking of Saints, North America's first permanent European settlement (per Mr. Resor's question) is named after one, too: St Augustine, FL. Founded by Spain in 1565. Also home to one of North America's oldest surviving railroad companies, the Florida East Coast.

For the next question, inarguable, inoffensive geography: What state contains the easternmost portion of the US?

Hint: It has passenger trains, but none named "Downeaster."


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George Harris
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To answer rresor's question, and I am guessing, St. Augustine, Florida. The Spanish were way ahead of the English in getting to North America. Remember, the southern border of the North American continent is not the Rio Grande, but the border between Panama and Columbia.
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Gilbert B Norman
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Mr. JFB Submits--

"I think Mr. Norman is referring to Albany-Rensselaer, NY, St. Albans, VT, and Albany, OR. The honoree: St. Alban, a 4th-Century Romano-Briton soldier who sheltered a Christian priest, converted, and for his troubles promptly became the island's first martyr"

BINGO, Mr. JFB

[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 08-18-2004).]


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Gilbert B Norman
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Here's another one , no religion, no politics, no history, just geography.

Name three stations of the same name in three states that Amtrak trains pass, but stop at only one of them.


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RRRICH
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JFB - the state with the easternmost portion of the United States is ALASKA!! (the Aleutians cross into the eastern hemisphere, and Alaska does have passenger trains!)
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rresor
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Mr. Harris, you claim the prize. I was indeed thinking of St. Augustine, founded in 1535, about 70 years before Jamestown and nearly a century before those boring Pilgrims landed on the "Plymouth Pebble".

As you pointed out earlier, the victors write the textbooks.

And Gilbert, you know of my relationship to St. Alban, and that's who I would have guessed if someone had not gotten there first. St. Albans is obvious, but Albany? I don't actually think that name has anything directly to do with St. Alban.

As to your quiz question, the answer is Columbus. Amtrak does stop at Columbus, WI, but not at Columbus, OH or Columbus, GA (or for that matter at Columbus, MS).


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Gilbert B Norman
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A BINGO for Mr. Resor, even though it was not where I had in mind.

My question was flawed, so let me try again.

Name three Stations (as defined in the Book of Rules) all with the same name at which passenger trains (once again, as defined in the Book of Rules) stop, where Amtrak goes through all three, yet makes a station stop (defined, guess where; the Book) at only one.

[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 08-18-2004).]


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JFB
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Rich:

Alaska is correct. You can't get more east than the easternmost part of the Eastern Hemisphere. If the Aleut made cigars, you’d get one.

Mr. Resor:

Albany, NY works within the parameters of Mr. Norman's question. Though not named directly for the saint, it was named in honor of James II of England, who at the time was Duke of St. Albans. Namesake by proxy. I don’t know about Albany, OR, but since the British held claim to the Oregon Territory in the late 18th/early 19th Centuries, I'd imagine the nomenclature is the same.

By the way, I think St. Augustine was founded in 1565, not 1535. Still beats Jamestown by a generation.

Mr. Norman:

Hamilton?

Ohio--Cardinal stop; New Jersey--NEC route/NJT stop; Ontario--Maple Leaf route/GO Transit (VIA?) stop.


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Gilbert B Norman
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Mr. Resor--

Cortez first visited Mexico (city) during 1519 (source: Encarta), it's in North America and the TFM has a substantive American interest.

However, I grant that St Augustine is a better answer. FEC is substantially owned by US interests (can't say exactly how much, stockholder listings, unless the interest is substantive, are private).

Mr. JFB--

You too get a bingo, even if it wasn't what I had in mind. I'd best withdraw the question.

I had in mind Riverside, CT (Corridor MNCR stops, Amtrak doesn't), IL (METRA stops, Amtrak doesn't), CA (both Amtrak and Metrolink stop).

I once remember posing the question before Amtrak added Riverside CA as a stop for the Chief. Then the question was three passenger stations, three states, Amtrak goes through but stops at NONE.

[This message has been edited by Gilbert B Norman (edited 08-18-2004).]


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JFB
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Alas, I forfeit the bingo. Ontario isn't a state. I wouldn't have guessed Riverside. Didn't even know it was on the New Haven.
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