Do we chose seats...yes, although you might have assigned seat #'s but those simply are not used (its even official amtrak policy). So I'd get on early and find a group of seats together (hopefully a 4-some) and hope that no one wants to sit next to you.

No Sleep Question - kids usually fall asleep....but this might be a slight problem...there is the lounge car which has bigger chairs/a snack bar/some sort of TV/etc.. that might be an ok place to vent some energy

*******WARNING****** - Food. Unless you want to spend a lot of money (9 meals for 3 people each priced about 7 to 9 dollars in the dinning car) I'd bring some sort of food so that you can maybe skip one meal a day and have food to snack on.

What is your routing / destination of train / actual place you are trying to reach?
If you are starting in Michigan, then 50 hours to someplace in Arizona makes me thing Texas Eagle / Sunset Limited. Are you aware of the Sunset's horrible timekeeping? Be sure that whoever is meeting you knows to check on anticipated arrival time prior to heading out to go pick you up.

Perhaps other Forum members can offer suggestions as to how to handle a child who won't sleep - I'm stumped. You are more than welcome to bring toys along, and something to keep the kids occupied What I can tell you is that there are several stops along the way where one can step on to the station platform and get a breath of freash air, along with a brief walk-about.

One additional word, now that I'm thinking of it: The tracks over which your particular train will travel are owned & maintained by the Union Pacific Railroad. in other words, the tracks aren't public in the same sense that our raods are public. The Private freight landlord railroad handles the traffic control and is responsible for all of the maintenance over the tracks. In several cases, this places Amtrak trains at the disadvantage, as certain frieght railroads are indifferent to downright hostile to Amtrak's presence over their tracks. In the case of this particular route, at this time the route is full of freight trains, and the TX & NM portions are swamped to overflowing - beyond capacity of trains. Be warned in advance that until UPRR gets enough track on this route, you may have for freights for a long time at certain sidings. Much of the route is single track, which means that if something happens to the trains in front of you, they can't detour or "drive on the shoulder" like what one could do on the highway. They just have to wait.

I'd bring along a cooler or something with some snacks as well. Unless you plan on eating everything in the diner (unlikly). make sure that whoever is meeting you at the station knows to call the toll free number and ask about the train's arrival time - this route is so clogged with traffic that the trains on this route have been hours upon hours late (not just Amtrak, but the freight as well).

------------------
Over 20,000 miles aboard Amtrak trains.

Both the Texas Eagle and the Sunset are double-deck Superliner trains. Your carry-ons can be stored in luggage racks in the lower level of your car right by the door, which is in the middle of the car. Concerning plugs for laptops -- someone else who has ridden more recently than I have may have to answer this. If you were in a sleeper, yes there would be a place to plug in a laptop or a camera charger. The coaches I don't know about........

Food prices in the diner are about the same as you would pay at a decent family restaurant. If you don't take all your meals in the diner, the lower level of the lounge car has an attended snack bar, where you can buy drinks, cookies, sandwiches, small pizzas, etc. at any time during your trip (provided the attendant is there and not on his/her meal break). The snack bar is typically open from early in the AM until 11 PM at night or so.

As someone else said, you may want to come back on a different train. That would be the Southwest Chief, which operates between L.A. and Chicago and goes through northern Arizona. The Chief is also a Superliner train, but typically operates much closer to schedule than the Texas Eagle/Sunset, and takes a more direct routing to Chicago. Where in Arizona is your ultimate destination?

For what it be worth, I believe Amtrak clears the system of expired reservations @ 3AM ET.

With that said, some suggestions:

1) Bring small inflatable pillows, light blankets, sleep masks, and ear plugs (boarding or departing passengers sometimes "forget" that others are trying to sleep).

2) Some coach seat cushions are more comfortable than others. If you aren't assigned to specific seats before boarding, test out several before settling in. Your lower spine will thank you.

3) If possible, choose seats toward the center of the car for a smoother ride.

4) As your trip progresses, one or more of the train's coaches may gradually empty out. If your car remains packed, ask the conductor if it's okay to move to the less populated part of the train. Just be absolutely sure he/she is aware of your final destination, and remind crew members periodically after you move. Also be certain to take your seat-checks (the little cardboard cards that show your destination), and place them above your new seats.

5) Some Amtrak crews let passengers camp on the floor of the Sightseer Lounge car during the night. It's worth asking.

6) Never leave electronic stuff (cell phone, DiscMan, camera, laptop, etc.) in plain sight when you leave your seat or go to sleep.

7) As with long airline flights, the cleanliness of the toilets may deteriorate as the trip progresses. If the passengers in your car are slobs, try the toilets in the next car. The toilets designed for handicapped people get used less and tend to stay cleaner.

8) If your budget allows, eat at least one meal per day in the dining car (breakfast and lunch are the least expensive). Leave a few extra bucks as a tip.

9) When the conductor allows it, get off the train at various stations en route to stretch and enjoy some fresh air. Just stay near the train. Don't wander or you may get left behind.

10) Take frequent strolls through the train. It's a great way to stretch, "people watch," and make new acquaintances.

11) Print out the Texas Eagle route guide you'll find here:
www.trainweb.com/cgi-bin/top/tw_do.cgi?routes/route_21/21_9408.html

You'll have a great time. Just don't forget to look out the window (it's surprising how many passengers don't really bother). Seeing America is what it's all about.

You will have a great time. But I strongly recommend that you ask your doctor for prescription sleeping pills. You need your sleep and it can be difficult to get sleep on the train.

Secondly, go to Walmart and buy a product called "Wet Ones." It is an antibacterial disposable cloth and it will keep you and yours reasonably clean. There are nice changing tables in the bathrooms.

Thirdly, the *cheese* pizza in the cafe car is both edible, affordable and made with natural ingredients. It will not come back to haunt you.

Have a great trip and just go with the flow. Don't get upset. Life is too short.

Visit my website at www.freewebs.com/chucksville and sign my guestbook.

Cordially,

Chuck Reuben
(Proud Mayor of Chuckville, U.S.A.)

Are you renting a car in Benson? Rental cars will meet you in the beautiful Flagstaff Depot and you can check baggage to Flag. Benson has a bench with a roof for a depot (very nice desert town though).

On the other hand, it is at least 6 hours drive from Flag to Benson and Flag has winter driving conditions (but good scenery) -and you have to get through Phoenix. Good connecting Amtrak Thruway bus service runs from Flag to PHX (airport) cheaply but you have to stay overnight (and it is cheap) in Flag.

West of Chicago you have a spacious coach seat plus the lounge car to expand into. There is plenty of room in the coach for luggage: the large immediate overhead luggage shelf at your seat plus another large remote luggage area on the lower level. There is even enough room on the floor for your baby seat. You are limited by rules to 2 carry-ons.

The lounge car has a variety of seating types on the upper level and table seating and food on the lower level. All rest rooms have changing tables the fold out of the wall. You are free to move between your coach seats and the lounge car as you wish.

Next, I will reiterate other posters in saying a DVD or laptop is a MUST!!! We are not big into movies and did not have one the first trip and regretted it. Something to think about with your laptop it may be bulky. Already you will have 2 kids and a bunch of bags to keep track of and the laptop will add to that. The DVD player can slide into the diaper bag and it is one less bag.

Food wise, again, all great advice form the posters on this board, as per normal. We of course brought along snacks too but one thing we found is the kids LOVE going to the snack car. The prices are not that bad in the snack car so plan on going there.

The second trip around we packed much lighter for the whole trip. If you need things in Arizona that would add a bag to the group, think about sending it UPS. Pack one small overnight bag for the whole clan and check the rest of the baggage. The lighter you can be getting on the train...the more enjoyable it will be and less frazzled.

We were in coach, and survived! lol Sleepers were just too expensive for us. My suggestion would be to try to be one of the first to get on the train so that you have a better chance of sitting together. We weren't able to at first, but we rearranged after people got off and ended up being able to sit together. On the way back, there were some seats reserved for families, so if they do that, that might make it easier for you. There were three of us traveling together, so the third person did sit with a stranger, but he enjoyed meeting and talking to new people. One of the things I didn't like going out, is they just let people sit wherever and there were all kinds of single seats, but never two together, much less three together in a row. On the way back, they were putting people in cars based on where they were getting off, so people getting on at those stops were able to find seats together.

As for food, I would suggest bringing some on board. The same old train food gets boring after awhile. Someone on here had suggested a collapseable cooler, which we got and was nice. I don't remember the size. It was on wheels, which made it easy to carry while at the train stations. We brought on sandwiches for supper the first night, donuts for breakfast, and ate lunch in the diner. We did get some meals from the lounge car too. I didn't think that prices were that unreasonable. They were probably comparable to restaurants that you would have to stop at if you were driving. We did lunch in the diner rather than dinner in the diner to get the experience at a cheaper price!! The price of food in the lounge car was more reasonable, but if you do that, go early so they don't run out of what you want to eat.

The nice thing about the train over the car is that you can walk around. I would suggest getting off at all of the smoke stops so that you can walk around the platform of the train stations. They usually announce the stops ahead of time, so you can be by the door and ready when they open them. That helped to break up the monotony of it all and to get some fresh air. Just stay close to the train so that it doesn't leave without you! Also, some of the stops were longer, and we always got off then to use the bathrooms in the station. There was just something nice about being able to use a bathroom that was a little bit bigger and wasn't swaying!!! LOL

Bring a blanket and pillows with you to help you sleep. One thing too, the first night everyone pretty much settled in and went to sleep when it got dark out. I thought that I would stay up, and go to sleep at my usual 10-11:00. The train was quiet then, but once the sun came up in the morning, people got up and started walking around, made noise, and they started announcing the seating for breakfast in the dining car. There was no way that I was able to sleep in the morning. So after that, when everyone else started going to sleep, so did I! lol On the second day it is much easier to fall asleep because you're so tired.

As for electronics, on our train there weren't any plugs at the seats, so people were running their laptops on battery, but there were places near the bathrooms and in the lounge car to plug in the battery chargers. The bad thing about that though, is that people had to sit there while the battery was charging to make sure no one took it. I would think that would be uncomfortable. Maybe bring a spare, fully charged battery if possible. Bring headphones for the laptop if you are doing that. I saw one mom use a movie in a laptop to entertain her sons. Bring plenty of stuff to do to entertain your son and yourselves. Also, bring a map. It's nice to know exactly where you are and where you're going.

I would think that there would be enough room for the baby carrier on the floor. You could probably put it by the feet of the 4 year old, since his legs probably won't need the floor space. There were plenty of babies on our train, and they did really well. Most of the time, the parents were holding them.

We checked some luggage and brought some on board. There was a place to put the suitcases by the bathrooms. But we put the stuff we wanted more accessible under the seat in front of us and in the overhead storage areas. There is a lot more room for this on a train than in an airplane.

Wear comfortable, elastic waisted clothes and slip on shoes. That makes it easier to put them on quickly to walk around the train.

One of the things I really enjoyed was meeting other people from around the country. We met all kinds of people from all walks of life and all ages. I always felt a little sad when people I had gotten to know got off and when we finally got off. You become close to these people quickly! There was one 12 or 13 year old boy travelling alone (not something I would advise!!) but everyone in the car pretty much took him under their wings and watched out for him. There was also a mom travelling alone with a bunch of kids. Another older gentleman sitting nearby was helping her out with the kids when they had to walk between cars and things. It's things like that that make train travel unique and valuable in this day and age.

Two points I wish to note that actually apply to either class of service.

First, be certain that anytime your older child is away from the seat, he is wearing hard soled footwear. Kids seem to take their shoes and socks off at a moment's notice (e.g. I was less than a happy camper last Spring when my house was being reroofed and a neighbor's child ran into my backyard to 'see what was going on' - she had NO SHOES on and there were extracted nails all over the place. I carried her out of there and stood by while her Mother "checked her out'). What if anyone 'decides to explore' the next car and does so without footwear? Traversing the cars; that is the big problem.

I think this point is now covered in the pre-departure 'safety briefing' (yes, Amtrak has them too); common sense if not.

Secondly, if you choose to bring your own food and beverages, be mindful that in Coach, carry on beverages DO NOT include alcoholic beverages. Only those purchased from Amtrak may be consumed there (Sleepers, your private stock is fair game).

Otherwise Ms. Conifer, for better or for worse, it appears your plans are set. I wish you and your family well, even though I'm "uh, not exactly' saying, "I wish I could share the experience'.

My daughter and I (we live in MN) stayed in Benson last year on our way from the SW Chief in Albuqueque to Phoenix, and I loved the town. I recommend a great cafe on the old highway going west that has an old car and Elvis theme to it.

In the future you might consider what I usually do in my annual AZ trip: SW Chief to ABQ, where there are cheap weekly car rentals (Hertz even pays your cab to the airport and allows drop-off at the depot). The days drive to AZ is very scenic, and you can go south to avoid snow if you need to. The train times at ABQ are very convenient.

A large cooler will fit in the lower level baggage area or in front of your seat -with no room left for your legs. A small cooler might fit in the overhead stowage -about 12" tall and very deep. Max size of your 2 allowed carry-ons per ticketed passenger is 28"x22"x14" and must have an id tag. Purses, briefcases, laptops, or cosmetic cases do not count as your 2 carry-ons, but a cooler will. There is no checked baggage to Benson (Tucson is the closest), but if you catch the SW Chief from Flag to CHI you can check any bags you do not need with you. You can do this the night before you leave also. It is a very early departure eastbound at Flag. You can run into severe winter driving conditions at Flagstaff, but it is rare.

Most people on this forum may think I am crazy, but I sometimes prefer coach even for sleeping (Roomettes are private, but very cramped). I use a compressable travel pillow to augment Amtrak's pillow to soften the hard spots. A hooded sweatshirt will dull the noise and keep you warm. Use LOOSE warm clothing that will allow all sorts of strange body contortions, and think of your seats as your nest on wheels as you snuggle in. Small children often sleep on the floor. If one of you sleeps in the lounge car on the triple seats or floor, you will have more room to spread out. You could even be lucky and have 2 vacant seats for each of you.

If your are patient and do not expect much in the way of service, the train can be a wonderful adventure. We all get so enthused about giving you advice because we love trains. But you now owe us a trip report when we get back. Good luck.

Extra pillows are a great idea, and be sure to wear lots of layers in case you get stuck somewhere cold or hot, so you can put things on or take them off as needed. And a hat and gloves. I always carry one more pair of warm socks in a handy place to put over my others, just in case, because I like to take my shoes off when I sleep.

I like a little silky eye mask but instead of ear plugs I bring a Walkman and play soothing music to sleep to; also extra batteries in case they run out. With children, you might consider a deck of cards too--I have an Amtrak deck I bought on the train! I also like having a map of the route and a list of the stops or beter yet, a more descriptive short itinerary.

I always try to travel as light as possible so, for food, instead of a heavier cooler, you might consider one of those thermal bags. Peanut butter and jelly or hummus on pita keep pretty well without good refrigeration, and hard cheese isn't so bad either, for your meals earlier in the trip. I also bring granola bars, fruit, celery and carrot sticks and plenty of napkins. I usually eat only breakfast in the dining car when traveling coach--if possible, I like to time it so that I'm sitting at the windows there and watch the sunrise! I just had it on the Crescent--eggs, grits or home fries, coffee, and juice were $6/person plus tip.

I don't know about sleeping pills, afraid to use them, but I do always take some aspirin or Tylenol when I travel.

Would it still be possible to send some of your equipment UPS to your father? Or maybe to have him just buy or rent a simpler crib for use down there, or borrow one from someone nearby? Maybe if he contacted a nursery school or something, he could find something?

Here is a chance for either your Mother or Father to see 'what you all have had to put up with' so that "We Three Kings of Orient are, Bearing gifts we traverse a far..." can truly ring at the household. One could drive, the other ride with you.

With some 250K lifetime rail travel mileage first starting during 1946 (I'm hardly the champ; there is a Member here, ChrisG, who has about 840K - and he is much younger than I), I hope I can be of help. You remain welcome to contact me privately.

You can print the timetables for your trains from the Amtrak website: Routes > Schedules brings up a printable Adobe schedule. Stations with a small suitcase symbol have checked baggage -none between El Paso and Tucson.

I just checked the last 2 arrival times for train #421 into Tucson on the 16th (3:55am) and 18th (8:42am) vs. scheduled time of 9:57pm. Benson would be comparably late. Three nights for the price of 2!

That train's progress can be followed at the website.

So many destinations, so little vacation time. Sigh.

The through cars in which you will be riding are identified as Train #421, both in the computer and with the automated voice recognition "Julie' system.

Lastly, as of a few moments ago, and of course subject to prior sale, there is one Roomette open on #421 departing Dec 26. I think you know my advice regarding this matter.

Don't let the sleeper promoters scare you. Coach does fine. We did it for one night plus day with three kids, but it was 30 years ago now. Since there is the possibility of roaming room, in some ways you actually have more space than in a sleeper. It is a whole lot easier than a long trip in a car. No "always buckle up" means that everyone is more unchaged. It is easier young, but I have done nights in coaches in the post 50 age frame with no real difficulty. Nothing against going by sleeper, just a question of availability and or ready cash.

A railroad coach trip is a whole lot easier than the same time or even half or one-fourth the time in a plane. And then, you have the money to do something else with, or you avoid spending money you do not really have. I know when our children were in the growing up years, there was never any problem about what to do with any extra money, because there wasn't any to do anything with.

While past performance should not be considered indicative of future results, I report this as an FYI.

Allow me to reiterate that should your Mother or Father choose to check the "status" of your train, it is identified both at at the website and with the "Julie" system as Train 421.

An additional point that could affect your return trip (also your going, but I do not believe likely) is that you could be provided substitute charter bus transportation from San Antonio to Dallas (275 miles). This "bustitution" (not an official Amtrak term BTW) is done whenever Train #2, the train to which your #422 cars are attached, LA-San Antonio,is expected to arrive San Antonio, say, more than three hours late. You would then rejoin your train at Dallas. The hard facts of life are that a bus over the Interstates can easily 'beat the train'. Under extreme conditions, say maybe nine hours late, the "bustitution'will start at El Paso - some 675 miles from Dallas.

Just thought you should know the above. If for some reason I'm mistaken, others will be quick to "chime in".

Lastly, even though absent duress I would not contemplate any such trip, I wish you and your family well. As noted earlier, expect nothing but a ride from Amtrak. Hopefully the cohesion of your family unit will somehow make this a bearable experience.