posted
I have become a fan of rail travel, see existing post about upcoming trip on the Crescent, but am curious what you that have been avid rail travelers for years believes the future holds for Amtrak and/or rail travel in general in the US. Is rail travel making a slight comeback? I noticed that there are towns upgrading stations, rail routes, etc in some parts of the country.
I know Amtrak was on shaky ground a few years back, but I hope it's improving. It'd be great to see expanded routes, though I doubt that is likely in the near future.
posted
I have become considerably more pessimistic about the future of the Long Distance (LD) services.
There really is only one one part of Amtrak that is absolutely essential and that is the Northeast Corridor. Since any kind of a nine state Regional Authority to operate it is quite simply unworkable, its only source of needed funding is the Federal trough.
I have previously held that the LD's were simply the catalyst needed to ensure Federal-level funding of the Corridor, or, as I noted here in the past, "No Yuma?, No Moolah!!!!". Even though the LD's really do not incur all that much of an incremental deficit (or at least so long as the existing equipment can be made roadworthy), most of their fixed costs are avoidable. Don't run one?, no need to "fill 'er up", pay the crew, and for that matter pay the Class One railroad to dispatch it.
Had the Warrington Gang not seen fit to 'hock the house, to charge a blouse" (all previously paid for by Appropriation equipment is now leased - thanks GW) I would say that practically all the cost of running an LD was incremental.
But, disagreemnts respected - I know where they will be coming from, the LD's provide scant economic value.
Even though the Law of the Land calls for a National System, and a requirement that Amtrak will operate any train, subject to reasonable and practical operating conditions, funded by a local initiative, I believe that there have been "under the table" committments to fund the Corridor to whatever extent is needed to ensure it is viable without maintaining an LD system. I further believe that there are a burgeoning number of private sector rail passenger operators about, who, if the "price is right", would contract directly with a sponsor and a railroad to operate the local initiative services (i.e. California Capitols, San Joaquins, and Surfliners - the only ones anywhere of any consequence).
I believe the Gunn Adminiostration already has a plan in force to gradually kill the LD System. While hardly the 'wholesale' cutting that occurred during the "Carter" (1979) and "Mercer" (1995) cuts, "pruning" is definitely the order of the day. Even though, the Mail & Express 'salvation' only turned out be be some Enron accounting figment, it was much easier to justify the allotment of a scare dispatchment block on a Class One with the M&E than without it.
So I'm pessimistic; even though until the "Gunnmen' came to town, I thought the LD's were quite safe.
The Corridor, on the other hand, I'm quite confident is "here to stay'. Every time I go near it, and despite its only "adequately satisfactory" level of service, it seems busier than it did on the previous visit.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I tend to be less pessimistic than Mr. Norman on this matter. While I agree with him that the long distance network helps provide political suppport for the northeast corridor, I do not believe that is the sole reason for their existence. That notion is largely promoted by those who live in proximity to said corridor, and who don't get out on the western interstate trains very often, if at all.
But Amtrak is still on shaky ground. Every year Congress goes through the same pathetic debate, which always ends by providing Amtrak with just enough money to squeak by another year.
The root problem I see is the complete failure by any policymakers, both within Amtrak and in the halls of government, to engage in any sort of long term planning. Without clearly defined goals for Amtrak, Congress really has nothing substantial to fund.
Lacking a clear directon, there are not enough votes in Congress to help Amtrak succeed. But at the same time Congress manages to have some smattering of understanding that rail is important, so there are not enough votes to kill it. No elected official in his or her right mind wants to kill America's passenger trains on their watch, so the pathetic status quo is maintained.
------------------ "Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience." -- Hyman Rickover The Del Monte Club Car
posted
As always, I respect Mr. Toy's predictable disagreement to my thoughts regarding the LD's. Once again, I further say to Mr. Toy, that I haven't been to the West Coast in some fifteen years, or for that matter much West of Amana Iowa "in a long time', is not any kind of boycott, I simply have no reason to do so (I WAS going to make a trip - air - to Lodi CA to meet a possible "little sister" for my Newfoundland during 2002, but that fell through and accordingly so did the trip).
Without access to any hard data, I contend that the LD's, absent the "hock the house" charades of the W Gang (albeit brought about by the "self sufficiency' language of ARAA '97), would be mighty close to putting into the cookie jar what they take out.
People ride 'em, I don't deny that, and, I ride 'em myself albeit only to the East of CHI.
But the fact remains that "one a day", or even "six a week', which don't even serve the fastest growing regions in the US, does not really comprise a transportation resource of any consequence.
Further, we must recognize that the Class One railroads over which the LD's operate are "choking' with their own traffic. Owing to the largely double tracked ROW and that the Chief uses a secondary route for some one third of its route, as well as for the Zephyr a routing to be avoided by through freight, the BNSF seems to run 'em more or less on time. However, the Union Pacific's operational problems, without regard to class of service, are widely noted - simply too much traffic, and not enough plant.
All of the above means that the Class Ones have to direct their resources to what counts - moving the freight!
I'm sorry to be so pessimistic, and I will miss 'em myself. But I'm afraid that in the interest of best deploying scarce resources, i.e. Class One track capacity, it is time to find the drumhead that was affixed to the last UP #103 "City of Everywhere" and attach same to the now open diaphram of a Supeliner.
The drumhead simply said: "Adios"
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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He says if we do not adequately fund Amtrak, he will HAVE to shut it down before it FALLS down!
I ride frequently, mostly between Chicago and Springfield, IL. Although the UP has less than adequate dispatching, the train is always nice and the crew is helpful.
BTW, Mr Gunn plans on rebuilding most of the newer equipment and buying some 2nd generation Viewliners. Also some new generation RDC's.
The old days are gone, except in the case of stuff like the Venice Simplon Orient Express and the American Orient Express, but if you think Amtrak is pricey???
Anyway, keep us posted about your trip on the Crescent!
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: All of the above means that the Class Ones have to direct their resources to what counts - moving the freight!....I'm afraid that in the interest of best deploying scarce resources, i.e. Class One track capacity, it is time to find the drumhead that was affixed to the last UP #103 "City of Everywhere" and attach same to the now open diaphram of a Supeliner.
The drumhead simply said: "Adios"
Well, and this may be another predictable response, the freight congestion won't be solved by sacrificing Amtrak. So to me that is a red herring. Amtrak isn't the only rail service that is suffering. Railroad freight customers are also suffering from this problem, so it will have to be fixed. The only way to do that is to increase capacity. Eliminating a tiny part of the traffic won't make a dent. Sooner or later, by some means or another* this problem will be solved, and both freight and passenger services will benefit. Public/private infrastructure funding partnerships are already appearing on the horizon, so stay tuned.
*One being a good shakeup of UP management.
------------------ "Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience." -- Hyman Rickover The Del Monte Club Car
posted
Common sense would dictate that a passenger train railroad should be built where there is a need for its existence.
If any part of the country needed a railroad, it is so-called "fly-over country," precisely the region that seems to be slated for extinction.
This morning's Wall Street Journal (1/28/05) has a fascinating story on its front page whose headline reads, "On the East Coast, Chinese Buses Give Greyhound a Run." In this story you can read about how some very resourceful Chinese businessmen have managed to lower the price of a ticket from Boston to New York (187 miles) to $15.
In order for Greyhound to survive against such tactics, it has matched this fare. It has also ended service to 260 Western towns, "with more cuts to come." The article goes on to say that Greyhound is betting its future on short runs, "exactly the ones the Chinese lines are out to snatch."
It would seem to me that you East Coast residents have more than enough options when it comes to traveling. Those of us who live in the West have relatively few options, and those options that do exist are becoming fewer and costlier every day.
It is well-reported that despite the fact that the East Coast trains are doing a lively business, their infrastructure is deteriorating. It is folly to expect those of us who live in "fly-over country" to pay for repairs to the NEC.
Nobody wants to run the long-haul routes but I bet you anything that "Peter Pan" or those Chinese guys would jump at the chance to take over running the Accella.
My point is that I think the time has come for everybody to start rallying together. This is no time to make concessions. It's all or nothing.
Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Chucky: Common sense would dictate that a passenger train railroad should be built where there is a need for its existence.
Very true. What is missing are the demographic and market data needed to demonstrate to a skeptical Congress that the need exists in middle America.
quote:My point is that I think the time has come for everybody to start rallying together. This is no time to make concessions. It's all or nothing.
Bravo! Or as Kay Bailey Hutchison says "National or Nothing." Let us never forget that Amtrak is the NATIONAL Railroad Passenger Corp., not the Northeast Railroad Passenger Corp. "National" includes Nevada as well as New York, Mississippi as well as Massachusetts.
------------------ "Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience." -- Hyman Rickover The Del Monte Club Car
[This message has been edited by Mr. Toy (edited 01-28-2005).]
posted
I think Amtrak will see better days soon due to the fact that some people still are afraid to fly. Also the Homeland Security is thinking to double to security fee that passengers pay to go on the plane . Amtrak does not see these taxes. So we'll see let's hope for the best.
Posts: 259 | Registered: Jan 2005
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Those of you who are better at remembering figures than I am may need to correct me, but I believe I have read somewhere that the National System (outside the NEC) produces half of Amtrak's revenue, yet consumes only 1/3 of its expenditures.
When taxpayers in "flyover land" kick in for rail, they are already getting less service for their tax dollar than those in the Northeast and CA, and contributing more in rail fare for less convenient service.
This imbalance is worse when you consider that: if you were to increase service in 'flyover land' on existing routes, revenue might go up proportionally but expenses would not. Station expenses and personnel needed to support one or less trains per day would not need to be doubled to support two. More superliner cars would produce revenue that would probably exceed their cost. LD's run at higher % of capacity than the NEC now. The demand is there.
This logic suggests that shrinking the LD service is not a fair solution. Air and bus receive proportionally more subsidy for service to remote areas than for popular routes. A rail system paid for by all the people should serve all the people. Actually, expanding the National System would give us more bang for our tax buck. Especially when each of us is only paying $6 a year for the pathetic system we have.
You say the current system can't handle Amtrak? The people who make the laws can also influence the situation with freight congestion. If the railroads look to government help for infrastructure improvements (many travel modes do), passenger train priority should be a consideration. If BNSF can do it, UP can do it.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
I have to respectfully disagree with Mr. Norman. I do agree the Northeast Corridor is an essential service, but I think some of the long-distant trains are likewise essential. Having lived along the Empire Builder route, in Northern Montana, it would be hard for me to believe that the EB service is less essential than the Northeast Corridor, especially with "40 below" winter conditions and perilous highways. Both the transportive and romantic elements to LD trains, I believe, cannnot be depreciated. The Empire Builder run through the southern portion of Glacier Park, to me, would be almost as important to preserve as preservation of the park, itself. Rather than get rid of the long-distant trains..I would rather do the opposite. Keep the LD routes and let intrastate and interstate corridors be financed locally. If we just have corridor routes and no LD routes, to me, there is no reason for Amtrak to exist.
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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If there is no Amtrak would trainweb.com exist?Maybe maybe not. Would Steve Grande be happy? No. Would there be the interesting travelogs that I can read time and time again? No. Would I go to my local train station and see the trains come and go? Who knowes.
You see by taking away Amtrak the entire hobby of rail fanning would cease to exist or exist in a totally different format that it does today. What would we see on this fourm the day the national headlines read"Amtrak ceases operation what now?". Think about it,please write to your congressperson like I did. You as citizens need to take action. Without action Amtrak could go under like US Airways.
posted
Looks like our wonderful presidential administration is attempting to f-over Amtrak. Proposals are out to eliminate all funding starting in 2006. Yes, I know this comes to the table every year, but each time it is just more ridiculous.
Posts: 553 | From: Flagstaff, AZ USA | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
According to the New York Times (not a reliable news source), the President will be asking Congress to eliminate the Amtrak subsidy. If true, that is a really stupid move.
Write your Congress Critters!
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Looks like Bush is gonna kill Amtrak once and for all. But on the bright and sunshiny side- US taxpayers are paying for the re-building of another country's rail lines (Iraq).
Posts: 23 | From: dallas, tx USA | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
If you believe the NYT, Bush is proposing the elimination of "operating" subsidies. That is not the entire Amtrak budget, even though the NYT "thinks" it is... {read their headline}
This smells of Mineta and his concrete cronies....
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: If you believe the NYT, Bush is proposing the elimination of "operating" subsidies. That is not the entire Amtrak budget, even though the NYT "thinks" it is... {read their headline}
This smells of Mineta and his concrete cronies....
Mineta is about the least competent Secretary of Transportation we have had EVER. His proposal to shut the door and eliminate stops of any long-distance train while it passes through a state that won't pony up the cost of that train illustrates how badly he misunderstands the situation.
I guess he's decided to just shoot for eliminating the entire long-distance system.
So life in a post-Amtrak era?
Too frightening to contemplate. I suppose I could always move to Colorado where I could get regular doses of the Ski Train, Royal Gorge Scenic, and Cumbres & Toltec. It wouldn't be the same but it would be something.
Canada is much too cold for my wife to tolerate.
Maybe Arizona.
I am so tired of writing please fund Amtrak letters. I've been doing it for nearly thirty years now and it is such an uphill battle.
Sigh......
------------------ David Pressley
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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"I am so tired of writing please fund Amtrak letters."
I completely understand where you are coming from, David.
If President Bush is willing to outsource military operations in Iraq and he is willing to privitize Social Security, I'm sure he would also love to wash his hands of the NEC.
It seems naive to believe that the federal government will hang on to the NEC just because they happen to own it.
If Mr. Bush had his way, I'm sure he would start selling parcels of our National Parks to private interests.
Oh silly me! He's doing just that, isn't he? The oilmen just can't wait to start drilling.
At any rate, I'm sure Peter Pan and Greyhound will do a fine job when they take over the NEC.
Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Would you mind refreshing the memories of the members of the forums here regarding the "Transportation Free Market Act?"
It seems like a novel idea to make our elected representatives put the money where the mouth is, and privatize every last inch of Federal & Interstate highways. Let them all be toll roads. You can bet that the new landlords would make every effort to charge "what the market will bear," and it would serve to illustrate to folks just how expensive transportation really is. Either that, or certain ideologues would have to admit that every formn of transport really is subsidized, in one form or another.
To Notelvis & Chucky: While I share some of your sentiments of discourage, I say that we should fight the good fight. If not people like us, then who? Forum entities here should make certain to contact, and follow up with, their respective Elected Representatives. Let's remember that it's Congress who has the proverbial "power of the purse," El Presidente merely makes proposals.
------------------ Over 20,000 miles aboard Amtrak trains.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." - Mark Twain.
[This message has been edited by CG96 (edited 02-02-2005).]
Alright,lest we forget, it was a DEMOCRATIC President and Sec. of Transportation which caused the biggest cutback in Amtrak, including cutting what was, at that time, the SEVENTH most-popular train in the Amtrak System (Lone Star)
The whole Washington establishment is clueless about Amtrak and public transport in general. It has been that way since about 1945.
Alright,lest we forget, it was a DEMOCRATIC President and Sec. of Transportation which caused the biggest cutback in Amtrak, including cutting what was, at that time, the SEVENTH most-popular train in the Amtrak System (Lone Star)
The whole Washington establishment is clueless about Amtrak and public transport in general. It has been that way since about 1945.
Amtrak will survive because it has to.
Cheers,
Rob
Point taken that the largest single cutback took place during the Carter Administration. However, since that time we have lost the Houston leg of the Texas Eagle, the Gulf Breeze, the Palmetto south of Savannah, separate sections of the Silver Service trains to Tampa, the Desert Wind, the Pioneer, the Broadway Limited, the Kentucky Cardinal (agreeably little was lost there but a loss is a loss), and going soon, the Three Rivers.
Focusing on the 1979 cutbacks alone ignores the fact that the collective losses since are also significant.
The skeletal system grows ever more so.
I agree with you that the Washington establishment is clueless about most transportation issues. The current bunch isn't showing much intellectual ability regarding domestic concerns either.
I wish that I could agree with you when you say Amtrak will survive. I'm as pessimistic now as I ever have been......regarding the national 'long-distance' network....and I've not seen much to encourage me in the last three or four years.
I'll write my letters and remind those who offer opposing viewpoints that the airlines are also broke in spite of years of hidden subsidies.
Anyone know what the weather is like in New Zealand? They have nice looking passenger trains there.
Sigh.......
------------------ David Pressley
[This message has been edited by notelvis (edited 02-02-2005).]
[This message has been edited by notelvis (edited 02-02-2005).]
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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During Billy-Bob's years we lost the Desert Wind and Pioneer.
Amtrak is very big in the Blue States and Kay Bailey Hutchinson is a Texan and a Repub.
I would like to see the Three Rivers go via Cleveland but the NS has enough problems w/ the two trains they have!
Hang in there Dave, this fight has been going on since May 1, 1971 and will probably be still going on May 1, 2011, no matter WHo is in control of the Whitehouse! The Washington establishment knows no party, HECK! they cannot even see past the Beltway!
Hang in there Dave, this fight has been going on since May 1, 1971 and will probably be still going on May 1, 2011, no matter WHo is in control of the Whitehouse! The Washington establishment knows no party, HECK! they cannot even see past the Beltway!
Cheers,
Rob
Just thought of some positives......
The $$$$$$ the state of NC has spent refurbishing vintage railroad stations in the last four years.
The new rail station at the Milwaukee Airport.
The marvelous ride I had upstairs on a MARC commuter train last fall.
The opportunity to board a passenger train isn't going to totally disappear.....the possibility of going coast to coast in a sleeping car is endangered however.
------------------ David Pressley
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
I dont know what the F to think with this administration. Amtrak's future is in doubt, but It is my belief that Amtrak will succeed....someday. It must, nearly every nation in Europe has an awesome train system, and the US does not???!!?!?!?!?!?!? WTF, 1.8 billion to provide adequate transportation to rural communities or 300 billion to kill people??? Tough choice for Dubya.....
Posts: 143 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Capltd29, you don't fully comprehend the situation, but that's OK. The same could be said about our $400 billion annual "welfare system".
The President does not control the purse strings; Congress does. That's who will decide the fate of Amtrak. Sure, Mineta has some "control/sway", but his vote doesn't mean much to the individual Congress critters, when it is time to get re-elected.
{Rob, it's Billy Jeff, or BJ for short...}
Eventually, our Nation will have to address our rail system and will have to help fund the rebuilding of the system. This affects commmerce and commerce between the various States is a constitutionally mandated function of our Federal Government. "Interstate II" seems to be the best proposal suggested, so far. Perhaps if we include a link to that plan in our letters, someone in Congress might pick up the banner and start pushing for a program similar to that rail plan.
Don't lose hope. It's free, and can motivate everyone to do the best they can to convince Congress to expand passenger rail and our rail system as a whole.
Get busy folks!
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I would suggest the most effective letter writing would be to Congress critters who are up for re-election in 06 and are not srong Amtrak supporters. If a significant number of constituents clue these people in, they may actually listen. Logic seems to fail in some cases. Mike, there must be some people in Texas you can work on.
Getting a national rail system for $6/person in the US is a bargain.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
mikesmith, I know that i dont understand it fully, and i am against welfare as well, but i do know that something needs to be done about the deficit that has been created(tax breaks sure dont help) Amtrak shouldnt be cut.
What about the $800,000 of federal money sent to the groundhog day site?
Conditions are a real mess, but I cant vote, I am only 15.....
Posts: 143 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Twinstarrocket: I'm a member of TXARP and we do have an organization that encourages letter writing to our various congress representatives. I've written, and will continue to write, Senator Hutchison, Senator Cornyn, and Representative Poe. Amtrak, border control, tax cuts, and 2nd amendment issues {in that order} are the primary subjects of my snail mail letters to them.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
I had no idea when I started this thread about the future of Amtrak that our beloved President would start the hacking of government subsidies with Amtrak. I felt that there were cut proposals coming in the future, but nothing this dramatic.
We are travelling via Amtrak in a few days on the Crescent to New York, and were so excited about the trip and then this news dampens everyone's spirits a bit.
Looking at the MSNBC article that shows Amtrak revenues and expenses over the past few years, one has to wonder what makes up all of the $3 Billion in expenses and $1.2 Million dollar loss. Are there expenses that can be cut and put Amtrak in the black? Perhaps it is poor management by the government? Does anyone know if Amtrak releases a complete P&L statement showing a breakdown of expenses? For those of us in banking/finance, it'd be interesting to analyze. I just can't believe there aren't ways to put Amtrak in the black.
I hope this will not be our last rail trip!!
[This message has been edited by RamblinBuzz (edited 02-10-2005).]
posted
Ramblinbuzz; If the feds decide to start turning our interstate road system into federal toll roads. start worrying! If the feds slap a $45 surcharge on all airline tickets, start worrying! If they institute a national "boat" tax, start worrying!
Otherwise, enjoy your trip; there will be more.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Mike: Even though we may be on opposite ends of the two-party political spectrum (and opposite ends of the old Twin Star Rocket passenger route), I am probably in agreement with you on 3 of the 4 issues you write to congress about (the exception being tax cuts where I believe the money might be better spent cutting deficits and aiding worthwhile programs such as Amtrak).
I am also a MNARP member in Minnesota, whose President is a very conservative URPA member, Andrew Seldon. Elsewhere on Trainweb I notice MN Republican Sen. Norm Coleman has issued a strong pro-Amtrak statement. He says the Empire Buider will still be around. For someone who was selected by the Bush team to run, this statement is encouraging. He has never replied to the pro-Amtrak letters I sent him.
Support for rail transcends party lines and stereotypes. The most genuine pro-rail (and fiscally responsible) politician I ever met up here was Jesse Ventura!
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
We railfans (AMTRAK plus commuter and Freight)can all cite reasons why the Federal budget shoud include sufficient funds for our specific interest, AMTRAK in this instance. Simultaneously, all those who have other specific interests will be making their case for funding and on and on it goes.
Worse still is that Congress will create even more special interest projects each budget year, several of which have been documented at this web site. How do we control it, or do we just say " let some taxpayers (whose income is greater than mine) pay for it." As painful as it may be I suggest that we AMTRAK advocates back off on some obviously unsucessful routes and/or services. Give Congress some wiggle room and at the same time suggest that they trim other projects rather than insist that ours is completely vital.
Routes and services should be determined by those who will pay for them, not by those in Congress who seek something special for their constituents as a price for their vote. Approximately 60% of Amtrak traffic is located on 7% of its routes. Certainly the Sunset is a fianacial loser and has a record of substantially dissappointing its riders with no improvement visable, even if we try to look beyond the horizon. For this and a few other routes it would be less expensive to furnish an airline ticket, free, than to continue the Amtrak service.
While this may seem a very negative analysis it is submitted with a positive viewpoint, keep what is ecomomically viable or close thereto, but eliminate what is not satisfying customers or is prohibitably costly.
Posts: 467 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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The Sunset is a loser because it runs only 3 times per week and is treated like a "red-headed step child by the UP and CSX!
It runs through some of the most populous and prosperous areas of the US, although I think it should run via the old T & P route through Lubbock, Ft Worth, Dallas and Shreveport.
The point also being here that although the Empire Builder runs through the "boonies" it carries more people than any other Amtrak Route, INCLUDING the Starlight!
This is an environmental, defense, transportation and economic issue. There is something for preserving Amtrak to make EVERYONE happy!
quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: If you believe the NYT, Bush is proposing the elimination of "operating" subsidies. That is not the entire Amtrak budget, even though the NYT "thinks" it is... {read their headline}
Actually, Bush has proposed eliminating ALL Amtrak funding, both capital and operations. He will leave $360 million in reserve to fund local commuter operations (not capital) if the budget forces Amtrak into bankruptcy.
quote:Also posted by mikesmith a little later on: Sure, Mineta has some "control/sway", but his vote doesn't mean much to the individual Congress critters, when it is time to get re-elected.
Mineta heads the agency responsible for national transportation planning and implementation. As such he is in a position to take a leadership role, though he certainly has not shown any leadership on this issue.
[This message has been edited by Mr. Toy (edited 02-12-2005).]
posted
RRCHINA wrote: "Routes and services should be determined by those who will pay for them, not by those in Congress who seek something special for their constituents as a price for their vote. Approximately 60% of Amtrak traffic is located on 7% of its routes."
If the 7% you refer to is the NEC, than why does it run only 45% full while the LD trains run 69% full? Why do the LD's produce more revenue for their allocated costs than the NEC? Why does the highest revenue/train on the Amtrak system occur at Wolf Point, MT?
Rob makes some valid points. If you ran the Sunset in the NEC 3 days a week 8 hours late it wouldn't do as well as it does now.
If you are going to run Amtrak like a business, than you invest in where the demand is. All the millions poured into Acela have not helped Amtrak's bottom line. The NEC has spent itself into becoming crucial while the LD's have been starved into being marginal. If we spent anywhere near as much on the LD's, I think we would get a better return on investment.
"We railfans" just don't have the clout of drug and insurance companies and airlines and highway lobbyists. The "price" of our Congress critters votes is not related to our selfish need for our home rail service. The common man in flyover land deserves the same bang for his tax buck as the New York stockbroker and that includes a national system. Most of the country will enthusiastically pay their $7 in taxes to keep it and probably kick in a few more to expand it.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
From http://www.dot.gov/affairs/dot2305.htm The 2006 budget request contains no funding for Amtrak unless immediate and significant reforms along the lines of the President’s proposed Amtrak legislation are made to the passenger rail service, the Secretary announced. If those reforms are made, the Secretary noted that the Administration would support additional funds for intercity rail.
“After 34 years of Amtrak operating losses and $29 billion in taxpayer subsidies, it’s clear that the current model of passenger rail service is flawed and unsustainable,” the Secretary said. “The President’s budget this year is a call to action.”
The Secretary also noted that the budget request includes $360 million to support existing commuter and freight service along the Northeast Corridor and elsewhere.
Yep, as stated, this is a Mineta budget. He's so in the pocket of the concrete industry, I would not be surprised to see a scandal involving Mineta over the next couple of years.
I wonder if anyone told the SecTrans that $29 billion is less than ONE YEAR of road subsidies? What a buffoon...
[This message has been edited by mikesmith (edited 02-12-2005).]
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
Mike, I couldn't agree more about Mineta. Your scandal theory might have something to it because if he isn't corrupt, he is incredibly stupid. Mineta was not always anti-rail. In fact, he played a role (though I'm not sure what) in creating the Capitol Corridor in California a decade or so back. He seemed to be very pro-rail back then. When he was first appointed to DOT, I had high hopes for him because of that. What a disappointment.
------------------ "Good ideas are not adopted automatically. They must be driven into practice with courageous patience." -- Hyman Rickover The Del Monte Club Car
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