posted
Sorting through my stuff I came across the Amtrak route map from c. 2000-01. On it there are four proposed routes in yellow: 1. Boston-Portland,Maine(up and running) 2. LA - Las Vegas (we all know about that!) 3. Meridian - Dallas (didn't one of the Amtrak board live in Meridian?) and a fourth one....
4. Chicago - Des Moines via Iowa City and Clinton
The strange thing is, whilst the Vegas and Meridian propoals have been frequently debated,I don't ever remember the Des Moines line ever being mentioned.
I know that Des Moines is included in the mid-west high speed rail scheme - did that supercede it? If not, what happened? Also, when did Des Moines last have passenger service?
Posts: 395 | From: england | Registered: Sep 2002
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There are other members of the Forum who are more knowledgeable regarding this topic. I think that this route segment was part of the Amtrak Growth Strtegy of the late 1990s (the same one that prodiced such things as Mail and Express Service, and the Lake Country Limited) and died its death when the connecting service between Boston and Chicago was rejected by Norfolk Southern. Another factor which lead to this routes' demise was the cost of upgrading the ex-CRIP track. If it were to go via Clinton, IA (the former CNW overland main) then this train would have had to deal with UPRRs attitude towards all things passenger rail, and it has been discussed ad nauseum just how hostile UPRR is to Amtraks' presence over its rails.
To sum it up, this route was a part of a strategy that was cancelled due to: 1. lack of funding, 2. The freight railraods extreme hostility towards Amtrak hauling any freight anywhere at all, and 3. Certain freight rr landlords hostility towards Amtrak, period.
-------------------- "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's life." Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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'.....Dead Dead Dead....and may the Lord have mercy on your soul."
This was part of the Warrington Gang's Network Growth Strategy, and of course was to be a primarily freight train. The ouute was to be Chi--MILW-Nahant-DRINW-Rock island-CRIP-Des Moines.
The schedule would have been overnight and be assured would have been "more bounce to the ounce" over the Rock Island - and not much better over the MILW.
Oh and excuse me, I should note that the MILW successor is the Iowa Chicago & Eastern andf the Rock Island's is the Iowa Interstate RR. I have no idea who owns the 'Dry Line'
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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The schedule would have been overnight and be assured would have been "more bounce to the ounce" over the Rock Island - and not much better over the MILW.
Akin to 'sway all the way' in an upstairs superliner roomette between Louisville and Indianapolis aboard the sadly short-lived 'Kentucky Cardinal'. When the sleeper and the boxcars came off this the handwriting was on the wall for that train.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I had thougth that this was to have been the old CRIP "Spine Line" all the way. One word for the porblem: UP. According to them, this is heavily congested.
The route: Minneapolis, Manly, Des Moines, Allerton, 493 miles, in 1948 there was a 9h15m schedule and a 12h15m schedule each way.
It seems so blooming obvious. This could be a Twin Cities to Texas train with car swaps at Kansas City so you would have MSP to Los Angeles out of it as well.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Mr. Harris: the poster was inqiring about the Chicago - Des Moines route, not the MSP - KC "spine line."
-------------------- "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's life." Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by CG96: Mr. Harris: the poster was inqiring about the Chicago - Des Moines route, not the MSP - KC "spine line."
Duhh. Thanks for the correction. Should have had more coffee this morning, or considering how bad a miss this was, check for brain activity. If all else fails, reread the question. Seems like I somehow picked up on "Rock Island" and "Des Moines" and missed all else. Glad I'm riding public transit home tonight. George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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That "spine line" was me Mr. Harris -the old "Twin Star Rocket" route. I was only 2 years old in 1948, but in 1958 it still made the MSP-KC run in 9h15m (I have the timetable).
That same schedule today would connected MSP to both the Zephyr and the Chief in both directions with minimal layovers. There would have to be a stop in Chariton, IA to connect to the #5/6.
It could continue on the old Lone Star and current Heartland Flyer route to Texas. From the twin cities of DFW to the twin cities of MSP. Perhaps Houston as well. From the North Star State to the Lone Star State. The Twin Star Rocket.
Five million shivering snowbirds would have Amtrak as an option. Millions of retirees would have access to their grandchildren on the tundra.
Finally someone understands. I am getting so tired of the drive to Iowa or Missouri.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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It would be nice for a northern extension of the Heartland Flyer, it would allow a person to bypass Chicago. Of course cities like Des Moines would benefit from such service, and so would those of us in the South, giving us a second option for North - South travel.
Posts: 82 | Registered: Aug 2004
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Be assured the Rock Island never referred to its MSP-KCY as the "spine line'. That term was an invention of the consultants that stumbled over one another when Federally guaranteed loans under the 70's legislation known as the 4R Act, were sought to rebuild the line.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I wonder what these consultants would have called the CGW St.Paul - KCY main, via Oelwein, IA?
The Hill-&-Dale line? (just kidding, of course)
-------------------- "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's life." Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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