The national passenger railroad, facing a possible restructuring by Congress, said it will cut staff by 4 percent and make cuts in hiring, training, advertising and supplies.

"Everyone knows that you can't make a profit while running a network of unprofitable trains but that is exactly what we are expected to do," said Amtrak President George Warrington.

Amtrak said service will not be affected in the current budget year, which ends Sept. 30.

The long-distance trains being targeted next year generally are those that run overnight through several states and are not in the heavily traveled Northeast or West Coast corridors. Amtrak said it would list 18 threatened routes later Friday.

Amtrak plans to lay off 700 union workers and 300 who are not covered by union contracts. Two sources knowledgeable about the moves, who asked not to be identified, said the agency is facing a $200 million shortfall this year. Warrington did not indicate the Amtrak would seek any additional money from Congress this year.

The sources said Amtrak began broaching the idea of cuts in long-distance trains to members of Congress on Thursday. That prospect likely would get the attention of lawmakers, many of whom would be loath to accept any reduction in service to their states.

Amtrak is under growing pressure to improve its finances. The congressionally appointed Amtrak Reform Council will recommend next week that the government break up Amtrak and open passenger rail to competition.

Amtrak has used more than $25 billion in federal subsidies since its inception in 1971. Congress five years ago gave Amtrak until December 2002 to end its reliance on annual operating subsidies.

Amtrak has broadened its ventures to try to increase revenue and was hopeful the introduction of the nation's first high-speed train - Acela Express - would give it the boost it needed. Systemwide ridership has increased every year since 1996, to 23.5 million passengers in 2001.

But last week the Transportation Department's inspector general reported that Amtrak lost $1.1 billion in 2001, the most in its 30-year history, and is no closer to operational self-sufficiency than it was in 1998.

Last summer, Amtrak had to mortgage parts of New York's Penn Station - its most valuable asset - for $300 million to keep trains running through the end of the fiscal year.

This time, Amtrak plans to trim costs through layoffs and by scaling back maintenance on train cars.

Currently, when a train car is brought in for a specific reason like brake work, Amtrak performs comprehensive repairs, right down to torn upholstery. In the future, Amtrak will fix the immediate problem only.

Amtrak leaders have long said the federal government needs to invest more in tracks, rail yards, stations and other assets. The sources said Amtrak reported it has a $5 billion backlog of needed improvements that have not been made through the years because of a shortage of capital funding.

Amtrak announced last summer that it would offer early retirement and voluntary separation incentives to its 2,900 managers as part of a cost-cutting effort. It is not known has many took the offer.

At the time, Warrington said Amtrak would spend four to six months seeking ways "to eliminate overlapping operations, tighten cost controls and improve revenue opportunities."

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Originally posted by CHATTER:
That is a rather extreme response.

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"Anticipating the possibility of a shutdown, (Warrington) said Amtrak on MARCH 29 will post the required six-month discontinuance notices on all long distance trains."

Speaking selfishly, this really concerns me. I hold tickets for an April 16th departure from Orlando to LA on the Sunset. What are my chances for getting a good ride with good (or at least acceptable) service?

To amtrak207: I am as passionate about this mess as you -- I, too, am VERY disappointed and yes, a little ashamed that we've let it get this far.

However, the reality is that there probably aren't enough of us to make a real difference. I feel that the only hope is for the powers that be to recognize that a viable passenger rail system is a strategic asset that must be maintained.

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Originally posted by mrlithian:
Speaking selfishly, this really concerns me. I hold tickets for an April 16th departure from Orlando to LA on the Sunset. What are my chances for getting a good ride with good (or at least acceptable) service?

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We have tickets in June for a two week trip consisting of Texas Eagle, LSL, Acela, Three Rivers, ...

I have the same concerns.

Thoughts anyone?

Mark

I read another report that the Bush Administration, which was planning to present its own plan for the trains early this year, now wants to postpone that until after the November elections. Amtrak's announcements may have been an attempt to prevent Bush from putting it off. Amtrak's announcement insures it will be an election issue for sure.

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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

We're ol' railfanners, but this is our first really long distance run, and we're looking forward to it -- In spite of Mr Warrington.

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Originally posted by WalterK:
Congress has not supported Amtrak with anything more than make do funding. It's no suprise that Amtrak needs subsidies - its a public service! So President Warrington had the guts to tell Congress how much Amtrak needs, so he and Amtrak are attacked for it. Notification that the trains may stop is required by law, so what the beef? If Congress would just take action to adequately fund Amtrak as a public service than we can on with using it.

Urge your Senators and Representative to fight to adequately fund a National rail passenger system!

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Wait a minute -- I have no "beef" and I don't know why you think those with real concerns here do. What's YOUR beef with people stating their opinions and fears?

I only stated the facts when I quoted Warrington and offered no judgement about what he does or does not do.

My concern -- NOT a beef, but a real concern -- is STILL that I fully expect to get the service I paid for when I bought the tickets on the Sunset. If your boss told you that your job was in danger of ending, would that alter YOUR perception of the level of service you'd provide? End of story.

but MY Congresscritters (Hon Kit Bond, Hon Jean Carnahan, and Hon Sam Graves) have ALL said that since 9/11, hard copy gets deferred to electrons.

In Boy Scouting, I am counseling my troop through Citizenship in the Nation merit badge. All three DC offices told me hardcopy is not being read.

IF YOU DESIRE HARDCOPY, coordinate with your Congresscritter's local office to fax your letter in. Otherwise, send your note in electrons.

John

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Originally posted by Amtrak207:
To all of you who have already contacted your officials, I thank you. I forgot to add that paper mail is generally more effective (and less dismissable) than the electronic variety. Be sure to include your name, full address, and other pertinent information as letters without this seem to be discredited.

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Originally posted by PullmanCo:
I hate to tell you this...

but MY Congresscritters (Hon Kit Bond, Hon Jean Carnahan, and Hon Sam Graves) have ALL said that since 9/11, hard copy gets deferred to electrons.

In Boy Scouting, I am counseling my troop through Citizenship in the Nation merit badge. All three DC offices told me hardcopy is not being read.

IF YOU DESIRE HARDCOPY, coordinate with your Congresscritter's local office to fax your letter in. Otherwise, send your note in electrons.

John

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Good advice, Pullman -- my "Congresscritter" (Thanks -- LOVE that term!) has told me the same thing. I send all correspondence via email now.

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Originally posted by mrlithian:

My concern -- NOT a beef, but a real concern -- is STILL that I fully expect to get the service I paid for when I bought the tickets on the Sunset. If your boss told you that your job was in danger of ending, would that alter YOUR perception of the level of service you'd provide?

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If Amtrak employees have any sense at all they'll be giving the best darn service they know how. If the complaint level rises Congress will be less willing to spend money on lousy service. However, it the service remains friendly and reasonably efficient Congress will have one less excuse to withhold funding. Their jobs may very well depend on keeping their attitude positive.

BTW, does anybody know how many workers would be laid off if the long distance trains get whacked? You can bet Congress and the President will be asking that question, and figuring it into their decisions.

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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

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Originally posted by Amtrak207:
The crew members I've spoken with seem to be concerned about losing their jobs and seem to be annoyed about their positions being victims of political leveraging, but the service levels have been consistently good. Yes folks, that is on the Lakeshore. I'm not opening up the good/bad LSL service debate here, but rumor has it the bad apples are on their way out first. When you hold a position like that, it is all too easily to take an event like this personally, even though that particular crewmember is very dedicated at what he/she does. Your mind goes through a "what am I doing wrong" phase regardless of whether or not you are doing anything wrong.
Personally I'd be annoyed. But again, I have a history of being "passionate" about this topic.
Posted once.

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I agree, Amtrak ... I know I'd feel the same way if MY job was being used as a political football. Sooner or later, they have to be thinking that updating their resume is a necessary and good thing. And that's when they may also conclude that no matter WHAT they do, it won't be productive or worth it. THAT'S when apathy inevitably sets in and the customers start to wonder what happened to the service.

BTW, keep on being "passionate" -- I share your level of enthusiasm. Wish more did.

Mr Toy: That's a good point about the numbers to hit the unemployment rolls -- I too wonder how many there would be. It's a safe bet that many of them -- most of them? -- will not find work on the other, shorter-distance routes. Dubya will have something to say about this, I'm sure.

Crew ... Engineer, fireman, Conductor, Brakeman, Flagman... that's 5 per crew

CZ as a long-haul example:
Chicago-Omaha.
Omaha-Denver.
Denver-Grand Junction
Grand Junction-Salt Lake City
Salt Lake City-Sparks
Sparks-Jack London Square.

6 legs x 5 employees = 30 employees.

On board crew:
2 Sleepers x 1 porter per = 2
3 Coaches x 1 porter covering all = 1
1 Lounge x 1 attendant = 1
1 Diner x 4 cooks/4 waiters/1 steward = 9
1 baggage x 1 baggage handler = 1

(I'm told Chief of Onboard Services is a land based, occasioanl traveling supervisor now.)

14 onboard employees total

That's 44 employees to one consist.
At any instant, there are 4 consists out ... so 176 employees to meet the days requirements.

Next, factor in station agents, M&E switching crews, Mechanical Department employees, ... and remember, on the CZ route, there are a bunch of stations that *only* support the Zephyr ... Omaha, Grand Junction, Salt Lake City and Sparks are but 4 ... and they are division points.

The staff to passenger ratio is fairly steep, even on the public side.

Just some math, John

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Originally posted by jimmymac:
To Mr. Toy:
I read on either NARP or URPA website that 75 people we involved in operating or supporting a single long distance train. I trying to fing the exact reference.

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The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations

BTW, keep an eye on C-SPAN next week. The ARC will be testifying before Congress then.

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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

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Trust God, love your neighbor, and never mistake opinion for truth.
-Mr. Toy

I'm a stockholder in at least one railroad.

Allow me to be blunt ... as a stockholder.

I expect my Board of Directors, Chairman, and employees to conduct a profit/risk analysis of any new venture. I expect my BOD, Chair, and employees to make decisions based on return on investment. If the firm I hold stock in is offered a contract by the Government, I expect the BOD to bid it in such a way as the contract will be profitable to the corporation.

In most cases ...

The railroads will execute a risk/profit analysis, then rapidly carve out a "super-premium" mail and express operation from existing assets. By pricing the operation relative to the costs, they will make it happen.

The LD passenger routes will get the same rigorous cost analysis. A "Bid on Passenger Service" decision will have some combination of:
- Tariffs per passenger increasing dramatically (on the order of current coach seat costing equivalent of 1st class fare and pro rata of accommodation fee);
- Service levels decreasing (eg eliminating dining car and perhaps sleeping car operations)
- Subsidy from the route seller.

POST 9/11, I challenge you to find the monies for the last.

Absent a subsidy, as a stockholder, the BEST I expect my companies to offer for the LD routes is:
-At least the existing first class (with space, not just railfare) tariff for coach-only service
- No lounge space
- Foodservice (microwavables) sales operation for taking back to your seat.

Anything more will be the realm of luxury American Orient Express quality cruise lines, ... and even there, schedule will be based on demand.

As far as the "good old days" go, remember that throughout the 50s and 60s, the railroads wanted out of the passenger traffic business. None of them have the infrastructure (coach yards, commissary system, passenger traffic departments) to go back into the business.

I feel like "The Professional Iconoclast" of Trains magazine in the 70s here, folks. I'll be honest: A Deluxe Bedroom on the CZ is a bargain for the scenery and the recreation factor ... but I could not afford it at its real cost!

John

quote:

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Originally posted by jimmymac:
To Sideout1961:
The Amtrak Reform Council report recommends franchising the long distance routes but still would have performance base subsidies. That is any gov't funding would be tied to the operators performance (on time rate, customer service, etc.) It may not be Amtrak running long distance trains next year, but another or serveral other companies. Like it was in the "Good Old Days" with the Pennsy, and The Seaboard Air Line and others. There is also the Selden Plan which you can read on www.unitedrail.com. I was really down after the Amtrak announcement but in the last few days my confidence is returning. One thing is sure- the NEC has been a drag on passenger rail service and must be operated apart from the national system.

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The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations

[This message has been edited by PullmanCo (edited 02-11-2002).]