posted
I am contemplating purchasing the 3-4 Zone 'Explore America Pass'. I understand most of the restrictions except this:
It allows up to 3 stopovers during the time the 45-day pass is in affect. My questions is this...What period of time defines a 'Stopover'. If I have a layover from one train to another, and the layover is 3, 6, or even up to 8 hours, is this within or outside of the definition of the term 'Stopover'?
And has anyone out there bought one of these? If so, what did you think and how did it work out for you?
THANKS for your help...
David
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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Ultimately Amtrak's reservations folks have the final say so run it by a live agent at a local station or the 1-800 number before you make the purchase. In your area I've found that a couple of the agents at the Greensboro, NC station are particularly helpful.......not certain about Charlotte as I don't use that station as often.
The definition of a 'stopover' that I'm familiar with was when you broke the trip and did not continue to your destination on the next available train.
That's the key......NEXT AVAILABLE TRAIN.
For instance, if you travel from Atlanta to El Paso you will have an overnight layover in New Orleans. New Orleans is not a stopover IF you catch the next westbound train #1 to El Paso.
By the same token, if you step off number 1 in Houston that will be a stopover because you have broken the trip and can't continue until the next number 1 two or three days later. Of course even one night off the train along a route that operates daily (say Birmingham) will also count as a stopover.
Hope this helps!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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THANKS for this tremendously helpful information. I'll also call AMTRAK per your advice once I get a tentative travel schedule drafted tonight. I just hope I get someone there that will be in a good mood....:-)
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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I have reason to believe that stopovers do not apply to sleepers. If you take a stopover in Denver and then continue the next day to Chicago, Amtrak will charge you two full sleeper fares. That's what they did to me using a ticket with a North America Rail Pass, and I bet they do the same with the explore America pass.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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When I got Explore America, it wasn't a pass, it was just a fare plan. It allowed three stops not including your home stop; this means it really allowed ontly two stopovers because the third stop it allowed was your most distant destination, i.e., if you got the one-zone Explore America fare, you could go, say, NYC (home stop) to Charleston SC (stop 1), then on to Miami, FL (stop 2), then back to Savannah GA (stop 3), returning to NYC (home stop). If this is still the case (and I believe it is), I would therefore urge that you compare the price of the Explore America fare vs simply paying one-way fares with stopovers (which you can generally check in the Multifare section of the Amtrak website, if you don't want to phone 1-800-USA-RAIL). In other words, put in home stop to 1st stop with date, 1st stop to 2nd stop with date, 2nd stop to 3rd stop with date, and 3rd stop to home stop with date in the multifare section and (after going through their tiresome re-inquiries because you don't have all the stop abbreviations memorized as some here do!), see if your cost is less or more than the Explore America fare (which is also listed at the website or you can get quoted on the phone).
Sleepers are generally not part of fare or pass plans. (Even a Triple A or NARP discount does not apply to them.) If you get off a train, the sleeper when you reboard of course will be a new sleeper and a new cost incurred, since you are paying for all the service of using the sleeper, not the distance you travel, and since the sleepers are in high demand (in season) and there is a shortage of them. Sometimes, however, you can upgrade to sleeper at the last minute for a reasonable price if there are any available; which, especially off season, there sometimes are. (High seasons vary in different parts of the country, depending on weather, of course). But in general, you have to book sleepers in advance, and except for those possible rare upgrades, the cost goes up and up as the date approaches. Also, they have cancellation policies different from other fares; you need to check those carefully; I believe you lose your full sleeper fare if you do not cancel by a week before, but check. . .
Frankly, if you are in reasonably good shape and not traveling on the train more than one night at a time and are having enough rest at your stops, IMO you do not need a sleeper--especially on the western trains where you do not get a private bath and where the best views are from the observation deck, not your sleeper. They are a pleasant luxury, and on trips of more than a day almost a necessity . . . but for just one night, you can sit up and doze, just as you would on a plane overnight . . . but do bring a pillow, wear comfy clothes in layers . . . also bring eye shades and ear plugs and music and a book and some reasonably nonperishable edibles, I recommend cheese or hummus sandwiches for earlier meals, peanut butter and jelly for later, also granola bars are very useful, and raisins. You can bring water or buy it. Trains do have snack bars but the food isn't great, but you can buy beverages there. On some routes you will have longer stopovers where you can get food at or near the station . . . And if you travel coach, you can still pay for meals in the dining car (I recommend getting breakfast; the lunches and especially dinners are overpriced for what you get). With sleepers, the food is included.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Sojourner is correct in that the Explore America is more of a fare plan than a pass.
I have used the Explore America fare and have generally treated it as a 'roundtrip' but with a stopover in either direction. An example was a Washington, DC - Denver trip that I did once. Outbound I went via the 'Capitol' and stopped over in Burlington, IA. On the return I spent an extra night in Chicago and returned the following day on the 'Cardinal'. Chicago was a stopover on the return because I did not depart on the next available train to DC.
You noted that you're planning a 3/4 zone trip. That suggests that you are probably going to have at least 5/6 nights on the train coming and going. Sojourner is right in that you can save significant money by using coach some nights.
I would suggest that you comparison shop on the Amtrak website and determine which segments would be less costly in sleeper. Note that if you are changing trains in Chicago that you only need to either arrive or depart (not neccessarily both) in sleeper to have the use of the first class lounge (and free baggage storage) in Chicago.
Happy travels.
David Pressley
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Several years ago I went from Salisbury, NC to DC-CHI-SEA-EMY-CHI-SAL with only a single night layover in PDX. It was the most amazing 10 days to say the least. Lastyear I did the SAL-DC-CHI-SEA-s/b and n/b CS, EB, CZ (ended at SFO) all in coach class, then flew back to NC.
Now, I was trying to see if it possible to do a trip and connect almost every one of Amtrak's long distance services; Using the Crescent to Capital Limited again, take the EB, CS, SL, City of N.O., SWC, n/b CS, and CZ, then back to NC again. Literally live on the train for 30+ days. Just seeing America, enjoying the train, and with a well placed stayover in between long stretches to do laundry, and get a good nights sleep, but always using the 'next connecting available train 'to avoid a 'layover'.
Is this type of situation possible, can I make this agenda or does Amtrak have someting in the works that would prevent this?
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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Can someone please translate the above post into regular ole English? I really would love to read about this interesting itinerary but I'm afraid after CHI and DC, you lose me. What are all the others? I simply cannot remember most of the Amtrak stop abbreviations and don't have time to look them up. I know some of you train buffs just love using jargon, but I do humbly request that people would spell out what the heck they are talking about for dim folks like me. TYVM!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by dmwnc1959: Several years ago I went from Salisbury, NC to DC-CHI-SEA-EMY-CHI-SAL with only a single night layover in PDX. It was the most amazing 10 days to say the least. Lastyear I did the SAL-DC-CHI-SEA-s/b and n/b CS, EB, CZ (ended at SFO) all in coach class, then flew back to NC.
Now, I was trying to see if it possible to do a trip and connect almost every one of Amtrak's long distance services; Using the Crescent to Capital Limited again, take the EB, CS, SL, City of N.O., SWC, n/b CS, and CZ, then back to NC again. Literally live on the train for 30+ days. Just seeing America, enjoying the train, and with a well placed stayover in between long stretches to do laundry, and get a good nights sleep, but always using the 'next connecting available train 'to avoid a 'layover'.
Is this type of situation possible, can I make this agenda or does Amtrak have someting in the works that would prevent this?
Wow! I'm thinking that Amtrak might not allow all of this. I'll guess they would tend to want you on the most direct route.....like CHI-LAX on the Southwest Chief rather than via Seattle.
You might instead want to look at the North America Railpass. Fewer restrictions in regard to stopovers. The only major catch is that to use it at least one of the trains you ride must be a VIA Rail Canada train.
Given what you have in mind, I doubt that having to take a train in Canada would be a problem!
One suggestion for a good place to break the trip - The Executive Olde Towne (or some similar name) Vagabond Inn in Sacramento, CA is right across the street from the Amtrak Station and a block from the California Railroad Museum. It's clean, reasonably priced for the area, and there are a number of meal and sightseeing options within easy walking distance. Just be careful, the Vagabond is a regional chain and the cheaper one in Sacramento is out by the interstate far from the rail station.
Take Care, David
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I must be living in foamer world because I understood all the train related abbreviations but I do not know what IMO and TYVM stand for!(lol - I finally learned that one.)
SAL = home point which is Salisbury, NC.
Trip 1: SAL to DC to CHI to SEAttle (Empire Builder) to EMY(Emeryville on Coast Starlight) to CHI (Cal Zephyr) back to CHI and SAL. PDX stopover was Portland.
Trip 2: same trip to EMY, and probably on to LAX? Then U-turn same route back on the Coast Starlight and Empire Builder to CHI, hop on the CZ to SFO (San Francisco) and fly back to SAL.
Proposed Trip: Same route SAL-DC-CHI-SEA(or PDX)-LAX. Then SL(Sunset Limited) to New Orleans, CNO (City of New Orleans) to CHI, the SWC (Southwest Chief) to LAX, CS to EMY, Cal Zephyr to CHI and back home via DC.
Do I get 100pts? Sounds like a well planned dream trip. Might look a bit like spaghetti on a map.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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TWINSTARROCKET: 100 points...A+. It would look crazy on a map but how much fun! It would cover a grand amount of territory. And the best part about doing some backtracking would be seeing some of the sites you passed during the night on one trip, that they show up during the daytime on the trip going in the opposite direction.
NOTELVIS: I loved Old Town Sacremento on my last stop there. The S/B Coast Starlight was running late (imagine that, so her nickname is the 'Coastal Star-late')and I was to connect to the E/B California Zephyr in Emeryville.. They dumped me off in SAC with several hours to kill. Old Town Sacremento has the most marvelous train museum, a must see.
The only problem I had with the N.A. Railpass was it was $200+ more expensive. Was trying to keep the costs low.
SOJOURNER: THANKS for the ton of great information...and my apologies! As a long time T.A. (travel agent) I was so use to not using cruise lingo that may confuse clients, I should have done the same here :-)
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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dmwnc1959, if you want a marathon trip that covers all of the western trains, might I suggest; Salisbury, NC to DC to Chi Chi to Sea (Empire Builder) {Break} Sea to Sacramento (Coast Starlight) Sacramento to Denver (California Zephyr) bus to Raton Raton to LAX (Southwest Chief) {Break} Lax to St Louis (Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle) bus to Carbondale Carbondale to NOL (City of New Orleans) NOL to Salisbury (Cresent)
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: dmwnc1959, if you want a marathon trip that covers all of the western trains, might I suggest; Salisbury, NC to DC to Chi Chi to Sea (Empire Builder) {Break} Sea to Sacramento (Coast Starlight) Sacramento to Denver (California Zephyr) bus to Raton Raton to LAX (Southwest Chief) {Break} Lax to St Louis (Sunset Limited/Texas Eagle) bus to Carbondale Carbondale to NOL (City of New Orleans) NOL to Salisbury (Cresent)
OK, now you got me all excited! What a great idea and it's SOOOO much better than my plan, and I'm not against taking a bus either. I know a cool little hostel in SEA that runs about $19 a night (shared room), redeem some mileage points for a quick 'Cascades' (my favorite train in all the Amtrak fleet) trip to Vancouver, B.C. (another cheap hostel, about US$120 a week for a private room) and see the cruise ships heading for Alaska.
In LAX it would give me a chance to redeem some of my mileage points for a quick trip to San Juan Capistrano/San Diego (another cheap hostel in SAN) on the 'Surfliner' again, and maybe take another short cruise from LAX, see the historical 'Queen Mary' again.
This will be what I call Amtrak with and see what they say. THANKS! :-)
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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Thanks, Twin Star Rocket, for making those abbreviations clear!!!
Am curious about what Carbondale is like--worth stopping over like Sacramento, or just a convenient changing point?
DM etc: I was just joking when I wrote TYVM, I made it up. Is it really an abbreviation? BTW, how come you are not considering including the NE in your plans? NYC to Montreal on the Adirondack is a lovely trip, and I actually thought the train from NYC to Pittsburgh pretty nice as well. Both are day trips.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Good luck DMWNC1959 (and does the WNC mean Western North Carolina?) in getting Amtrak to go for this as an Explore America fare. They may have problems with SEA-LAX via DEN or LAX-SAL via STL.
I have one other thought for a live Amtrak agent. If he has not retired yet, an agent named Malcom (I think) working in the Fayetteville, NC station is extremely helpful in that he is willing during slow periods (like mid-week, mid-afternoon) to run a rail enthusiast's dreamtrip through the computer while you watch to see what he can come up with. He has been selling Amtrak tickets in Fayetteville since the 1970's though so he may have already retired.
Denver.......I spent the night there last week in the Red Lion Downtown Hotel which is adjacent to Mile High Stadium. It's a five minute/$5.00 cab ride from Union Station and I was able to get a special rate through expedia that was about 40% lower than what my other preferred Denver hotel, the Downtown Comfort Inn, was offering for that night (July 6). The Red Lion has a courtesy van and will run you back to the station the next morning.....but double-check the time. That bus to Raton departs at 6:00am.
SOJOURNER - Carbondale isn't bad. It's a small university town (Southern Illinois) so there will at least be a large per capita sprinkling of beer and pizza joints. The station is a medium-large Amshack erected in the 1970's (Not quite as large as the one in Richmond, VA but pretty much that style) that is staffed at train times.
The 'connecting bus' to St. Louis though is actually a 14 passenger van and it's pretty nocturnal. I used it in 2002 and it was a shock pulling myself from my superliner roomette (current terminolgy) at 4am to get the van to St. Louis. I was the only passenger making the conection that morning! I would say much more going on in Sacramento.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Regarding the post about the North America Rail Pass. In fact you do not have to journey into Canada in order to use it. I have bought several of these passes ever since they were first introduced, and all you have to do is "buy" a ticket for example New York to Montreal in order to satisfy the rules that at least one trip must be between Canada and the U.S. Of course you are not paying anything for the coach ticket and you don't have to take the trip, all you have to do is obtain one ticket to Canada and in fact take all of your train trips in the U.S. Of course the converse is true by taking all of your trips in Canada by obtaining one ticket to the U.S.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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Royal Train, I'm confused about how that works datewise. If you "buy" the ticket for your Canadian trip on the same days you are traveling on Amtrak elsewhere, won't that show up on computers and look suspicious?
Also, note that I believe the ticket you would have to "buy" would have to be a VIARAIL ticket. New York to Montreal is still Amtrak (the Adirondack); you would have to "buy" Montreal to Quebec, or Montreal to Toronto, or something like that, right?
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: BTW, how come you are not considering including the NE in your plans? NYC to Montreal on the Adirondack is a lovely trip, and I actually thought the train from NYC to Pittsburgh pretty nice as well. Both are day trips.
I would love to do the Northeast (New England) if it were offered on a type of 'Pass' like California or Florida have. Day trips would be lovely indeed on a NE Multi-Ride Pass if it existed.
For this trip I wanted to just take long-distance train trips that lasted for 2+ days and settle in for the joy ride.
NOTELVIS- I wish the 'W' did stand for Western NC, but my initials are DMW, the NC stating for of course the 'Tarheel State', and the 1959 for the year I was born. Got a birthday coming up on 7/20 and I'll be 46.... Yea!
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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I sit around and think of nice train trips I can take after I retire, or if I win the lotto, or if I have 3 weeks to take a vacation. That's how I came up with the above itinery.
The only thing I would add, if you have time in LAX, is a day trip on the Surfliner to San Luis Obispo for the coastal views there and back.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: I sit around and think of nice train trips I can take after I retire. The only thing I would add, if you have time in LAX, is a day trip on the Surfliner to San Luis Obispo for the coastal views there and back.
Funny you mentioned a 'Pacific Surfliner' side excursion. I actually did one on Trip #2 and went from LAX-San Diego with a stop in San Juan Capistrano to see the Mission. Great trip. Other than the 'Cascades' the 'Pacific Surfliner' is my favorite AMTRAK train.
Never thought to go north to San Luis Obispo.
MIKE: Don't wait until you retire to take a trip of your dreams. It would make a sad epitaph if you did. I am neither rich (by any stretch of the imagination) nor young. Just do it. I did, twice. You'll never regret it...
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: I must be living in foamer world because I understood all the train related abbreviations but I do not know what IMO and TYVM stand for!(lol - I finally learned that one.)
IMO= in my opinion TYVM= thank you very much Posts: 6 | From: Tampa, Fl | Registered: Jul 2005
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In answer to Sojourner's question on the North America Rail Pass. According to the conditions of the pass you are supposed to have at least one trip between Canada and the U.S. it doesn't matter if it is a Via or Amtrak train. When I pick up my pass I always have tickets for both Via and Amtrak including a cross-border train. But I'm not bound to actually use the train tickets, and I can buy any number of tickets after I've purchased the pass. As far as I can tell neither Via nor Amtrak monitor the usage of the pass. I have purchased several tickets and not used them, and no one seems to care. If you just bought the pass and never bought a cross-border ticket, what would the railways do? I hardly think they are going to send the railway police to take away your pass.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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dmwnc1959 The wife & I take a 6000 mile train trip each year. We are limited to 11 days, due to our work/vacation schedules. Eventually, we want to take an extended trip, such as a 3 week trip on the American Orient Express.. just as soon as we win the lotto! Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by mikesmith: dmwnc1959 The wife & I take a 6000 mile train trip each year. We are limited to 11 days, due to our work/vacation schedules. Eventually, we want to take an extended trip, such as a 3 week trip on the American Orient Express.. just as soon as we win the lotto!
I saw a show on PBS several nights ago about the 'American Orient Express' and her trip up the West Coast LAX-SEA. She looked so elegant, had so much old-world class, and so beyond anything I had ever seen before. I just kept saying "wow"! That is a trip I dare not dream of, and that will be my sad epitaph.
I am sure you and your wife will take that trip, and I will be terribly jealous... ;-)
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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As a kid in the 50's I used to collect timetables from every railroad. I had a bunch of 8.5x11 outline maps of the 48 states and a box of colored pencils. Then I would plan my dream trip on the map using the color of each train to trace its route on the map. I needed lots of colors. All in roomette of course (cost was no object).
Each night in bed I would dig out the timetable for where I would be that imaginary night and check again when I woke up in the morning.
The last trip I remember was Great Northern Minneapolis-Seattle, SP Shasta Daylight to LA, Rock Island Golden State to CHI, Illinois Central to New Orleans, Southern's Crescent to DC, Atlantic Coast Line to Florida, Southern's Ponce De Leon to CHI, Santa Fe to San Francisco, SP to Tacoma, and back to Minnesota on Milwaukee's Olympian Hiawatha.
Not only do none of those railroads exist by that name anymore, but I'd only need one color pencil.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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