posted
That is what it will be as far as I'm concerned;
Brief Passage from the DOT's Inspector General:
On July 22, we issued a report on cutting costs in Amtrak’s long-distance service without eliminating any routes, frequencies, or station stops. While sleeper class generates greater revenue per passenger than coach class, the costs associated with that revenue far exceed the revenue itself. Our analysis shows that eliminating sleeper cars, dining cars, entertainment, lounge seating, checked baggage service, and food and beverage service on Amtrak’s long-distance routes could save between $375 million and $790 million in operating savings and $395 million in avoidable planned capital expenditures over 5 years
Better start liking to ride about in COACH and bringing you own food along for the ride; I'll just say "thanks for the memories'.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
why not just get rid of all coaches and used open hoppers and a switching engine for Amtrak.
These people think they are slick. Recommending to lower Amtrak quality so to lower rider numbers. All to make it possible to eliminate Amtrak. Don't buy into this bull.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Sure, who needs food or entertainment when your on a train for 24+ hours.
Needless to say, thats a terrible idea!!
Edit: I remember hearing some members of the house discussing eliminating "luxary" accomodations onboard LDs.
Posts: 1082 | From: Los Angeles, CA. USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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But what "onboard entertainment" is he talking about? The 99 cent rent-a-dvd?I would love to see an independent auditor look at the same stats and see if they agree.
Methinks Mr. Mead has never ridden a long distance train before! The next report will probably say something like "heating and cooling on the coaches are too expensive and money could be saved by turning it off."
The whole report is snake-oil on the beltway. After all, he's got to have something to do to justify his position!
I'd like to see him write a report on how the government will get back the billions of dollars in loans give to the airlines after 9/11. Do you think we'll ever see that money come back?
Posts: 171 | From: Aurora, Illinois | Registered: Jun 2005
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-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Mead is a bean counter, not the businessman he pretends to be. He knows NOTHING about running a business. To Mead, numbers tell the whole story, and customers are mere statistics, not real human beings.
I might add that NONE of his proposals for Amtrak have ever been taken seriously outside of his own mind. So calm yourselves.
I love the politically polite, yet non committal response from the Amtrak board at the end of the document.
posted
I had heard elsewhere that they were considering getting rid of meals, though. I think that's ridiculous. Getting rid of the snack bars, that is fine; but the full meals on long distance routes? Only if they have longer stops at stations and people there selling food--but it has to be decent food. I noticed a lady selling burritos that looked pretty good at Albuquerque, for instance. OTOH I was disgusted with the food service facilities at Chicago's Union Station--what a tiresome crappy selection, and not even any ice cream!!! (Thank goodness you guys told me about The Berghoff, and too bad it's not open Sundays!)
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
In europe, I think it was Austria, Mcdonalds run the food coach on a train. I don't know why everything here has to be made so complicated.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
what is your problem 1959? Do you really think those of us who can afford sleepers are responsible for this crazy idea? I don't think so. For more years than I care to count we traveled coach. Now that we can afford sleepers we travel that way. That doesn't mean we look down on those who don't. It seems obvious to me that the reson for this idea is just another sneaky ploy on the part of this administration to get rid of Amtrak.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Train Lady, as well as a few others, have spotted the issue correctly. This proposal is coming from those who originally proposed to eliminate Amtrak completely. It is straight out of the old SP workbook, circa the late 1960s : If you can't eliminate the trains outright, then drive away the customers by making the trains undesirable to ride. Then when the clientele responds by taking their patronage and money somewhere else (read : cars and airlines), claim that the trains are unprofitable. These same folks are the ones who most likly have never taken an LD train west of Washington DC, never seen how full certain trains are (example : the Empire Builder) at several times of the year - even in the "off season," and never had to confront experiences that contradicted their pre-ordained conclusions regarding passenger trains.
These folks want to save tome taxpayer money? I can think of a certain misadventure in the continent of South Asia that could be reduced in scope that would have a lot larger impact on the federal treasury than gutting Amtrak.
Sometimes it makes me very frustrated and unhappy.
-------------------- "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's life." Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
1959, the point was that Amtrak can lease out the dining car. Let the food industry run the food and Amtrak run the train.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: That is what it will be as far as I'm concerned;
Brief Passage from the DOT's Inspector General:
On July 22, we issued a report on cutting costs in Amtrak’s long-distance service without eliminating any routes, frequencies, or station stops. While sleeper class generates greater revenue per passenger than coach class, the costs associated with that revenue far exceed the revenue itself. Our analysis shows that eliminating sleeper cars, dining cars, entertainment, lounge seating, checked baggage service, and food and beverage service on Amtrak’s long-distance routes could save between $375 million and $790 million in operating savings and $395 million in avoidable planned capital expenditures over 5 years
Better start liking to ride about in COACH and bringing you own food along for the ride; I'll just say "thanks for the memories'.
Sure. I'm just looking for an excuse to utilize VIA Rail exclusively for my North American Intercity Passenger Train needs.
David Pressley
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I truly and sincerely apologize if I have insulted anyone due to anything I have written that may have been directed at anyone or any group in particular. I owe direct and specific apologies to 'gp35', Mr. Norman, 'chatter', 'Train Lady', and particularly to 'sojourner'.
I am sorry and I truly feel remorse for my actions.
I will withdraw my membership here as I feel it is the only way I can truly express my remorse and that I have acted out of ignorance.
You are all an amazing, intelligent, and gifted group of travellers, and I feel like I owe you an unrepayable debt of gratitiude for what I have learned about America and Amtrak from all of up in the last couple of years.
Please forgive me...
dmwnc1959
P.S. to Mr. Norman...I travelled the TGV in the late 1980's when I was stationed in Europe while in the military. I dont know if that makes any difference now...
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
[QUOTE]what is your problem 1959? Do you really think those of us who can afford sleepers are responsible for this crazy idea? [QUOTE]
dmwnc1959 did not say that, he was only describing what SOME sleeping car passengers felt of passengers riding coach.
sojourner, Although I rarely visit the Snack/Cafe car on long distance trains due to the large meals in the dining car...I agree that several people in coach eat meals in there and some sleeping car passengers like to buy a soda between meals.
Final Thought: I hope Mr Toy is right that this guy is not taken seriously!
Posts: 1082 | From: Los Angeles, CA. USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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I believe it is completely unnecessary that you withdraw your membership. You have often made constructive comments at this Forum and as far as I'm concerned bygones are bygones.
Towards that end, I have deleted in its entirety my posting critical of your remarks. You of course can edit of delete yours. I'm certain the other Members who were critical will choose to follow suit. There is apparently no Moderator at this forum, and therefore the burden falls upon the Members to "police themselves'.
When you realized that your (I sincerely believe) unintentional remarks caused both astonishment and hurt to others here, you stepped forward and apologized. This decorous conduct regretably is not found at several other railforums elsewhere.
Lastly, fellow veteran, thank you for wearing our country's uniform and serving.
GBN
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Please don't exile yourself from the Forum. Life is a learning experience and sometimes we go off on a tangent.
Stick around, you can share your experience with the rest of us and we won't hold anything against you!
As to Mr. Mead and his silly report, I would personally say say to him: "I laugh at you!"
Posts: 171 | From: Aurora, Illinois | Registered: Jun 2005
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-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
What kind of maroon is this bean counter, anyway?
I am disabled (I am only able to walk short distances using a walker, and I need to use supplemental oxygen full time). My disability makes air travel very difficult.
I love traveling by train, and the accessible sleeper on Amtrak meets my needs very nicely. I enjoy the scenery and the peace and quiet of the sleeper. My meals are brought to me by my room attendant, which frees my travel companion to go to the dining car. I can do my stretching exercises in my room, or walk around either in my room or in the short hallway without feeling like I'm in the way of able-bodied folks.
Without accessible sleepers on trains, where am I suppoed to put my oxygen tanks? Without meals or food service en route, how am I supposed to eat? It's too physically difficult for me to get off at interim stops, let along manage to find something to eat in time to get back on the train. How will I walk up and down the aisles without feeling like I'm "in the way" of able-bodied passengers?
I guess this bean counter figures I'd better learn to like being jammed in a coach seat with no way to manage getting back and forth to the restroom. I'll have to put a lasso around my oxygen tanks and put them in the seat next to me.
Or, what will most likely happen, I'll have to give up traveling.
This really sucks. It also makes me angry. I wish this bean counter could life my life for just one day. Maybe he'd think twice about eliminating what he thinks are "unnecessary" services.
Posts: 26 | Registered: Dec 2003
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posted
1959, please don't leave the forum. I think you were just showing your frustration ( which we all feel at this point) and it came out in an unintentional way.Sort of like blaming the cat when you break a dish and the cat was in the other room. Let's just forget the whole thing.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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If I felt the need to hide behind a screenname, that one would be mine!!!!
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Hope you weren't offended by my rant at that DOT bean counter. My late father was a CPA, so I have a certain fondness for most bean counters. It's just chuckleheads like the DOT bean counter that make me grumpy.
Posts: 26 | Registered: Dec 2003
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If I felt the need to hide behind a screenname, that one would be mine!!!!
I clicked on Bean Counter about 4 times before I read the last sentance ...I thought it was some kind of glitch. Posts: 1082 | From: Los Angeles, CA. USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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posted
Just for the record, Mead's previous brilliant idea for the long distance trains was that they should connect regional corridors, but not overlap them. So, for instance, the Starlight would not run LA to Seattle, but rather LA to San Jose. Another LD would run from Sacramento to Eugene.
Another time I saw him at a Senate hearing on C-SPAN, when he said people who want to travel between corridors "should get on a plane."
He's a funny character, though. He clearly hates long dstance trains, but when he only talks about finances, and isn't pretending to be a transportation planner, he actually makes some coherent arguments in favor of Amtrak funding. he's good at his accounting job. Problem is, he's trying to be something he's not.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
Did anyone see the story in RailNews about the 11.4 billion 6 year plan by a bi-partisan senate committe for Amtrak.
Was it my imagination, or did Norman Mineta's statement about working with the committe on this plan to institute change at Amtrak a slight sign of the Administration bending their previous stance?
I can always hope can't I?
Posts: 171 | From: Aurora, Illinois | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
We really have to decide if we want a efficient rail system or a traveling museum trying to transport ourselves to not 1959 but rather 1929, Pretty much the end of the Goldon Age of US Railroading. The PRR and NYC used to race the clock from NY to Chicago with a fine meal or for the huddled masses I'm sure a packed lunch could get them through. Today the fear is food running out due to delays. In a Return to the Harvey Houses perhaps Amtrak would be nice enough to schedule there delays at stations that have full restraunt services.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I believe you mean the "Golden Age of Passenger Railroading'
I sincerely believe the 'golden age of railroading' is just beginning. As our economy exits the manufacture of consumer goods transferring such to Asia, those goods need to be moved overland from a port of entry to a Wally World distribution center near you. There simply is no reasonable and practical alternate transportation, You do not read reports of shippers leaving the UP in droves in search of more reliable service such as can be afforded by trucking. In fact you read of UP declining to handle business such as expedited movements for United Parcel Service.
Also, as a corrollary, I believe the maritime industry too is entering a "Golden Age".
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