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Once damage assessments are in, it will be helpful for someone in the know to provide info regarding how long the CSX line will be out of service through New Orleans and along the Mississippi Gulf coast. This may impact a trip I have planned for January from the look of things. The NOL station is next to the Superdome where there was major damage. Leaving NOL, the line passes between Lake Borgne and Lake Pontchartrain on a causeway built on fill. The eye of Katrina passed over this area. There are major bridges across the Rigolets, the Pearl River, St.Louis Bay, and Biloxi Bay, all of which may have been devastated. All of you fellow Sunset travelers as well as those planning to ride the Crescent and the City need to pay attention, too.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
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This sort of stuff will be appearing in the next few days. Wait a couple of days and go to the CSX web site and it will probably have information on it.
Goerge
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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According to Amtrak, the Sunset, Crescent, and City of NO will be terminated at San Antonio, Atlanta, and Memphis for the next week and a half, possibly longer. New Orleans is under water and probably will be for weeks. No alternative travel is being provided.
I just cancelled my roundtrip from Houston to Alpine for August 31 & September 5.
Bummer.... Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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"According to Amtrak, the Sunset, Crescent, and City of NO will be terminated at San Antonio, Atlanta, and Memphis for the next week and a half, possibly longer. New Orleans is under water and probably will be for weeks. No alternative travel is being provided."
Wonder why they cant run the train as far as houston?
Posts: 416 | From: St. Albans, Vermont | Registered: Feb 2003
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quote:Originally posted by gp35: Not just Houston. It's clear to go to Lafayette LA.
Seems like they could get the 'Crescent' to Birmingham or Meridian at least......and the 'City of NO' could turn in Jackson.
Just turning away potential revenue it seems.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I'm guessing there is no way to turn or service the train beyond those cities.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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All of your suggestions assume that there are new crews and servicing facilities available at these various destinations.
I have no personal knowledge of the specifics but it seems rational that they are terminating at locations where the trains can be serviced, turned and sent on their way with fresh crews. Or at least where AMTRAK can easily improvise.
Posts: 467 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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They could easily run a Sunset from Orlando to Pensacola. I've been through Pensacola a few times when the train was so late they had to "recrew" and refuel the train there. Heck, if they did that, they could make it daily with one set of equipment, assuming they altered the schedule of course.
Posts: 82 | Registered: Aug 2004
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I must wonder if CSX is simply going to say "enough" with the Gulf Coast Line and look for an alternate routing for through East-West traffic and serve the major on line traffic sources at Mobile and Pascagoula by means of North South routings.
TV news reported this evening that the parallel US 90 viaduct at Pass Christian has essentially been "taken out'. Ivan pretty well took the railroad out last year, and wayward barges have a way of taking out bridges.
It seems to me like one of thoise hard luck pieces of railroad that given a reasonable alternate route, CSX should explore using such and abandon the Gulf Coast line retaining only those parts needed for industrial access.
Only problem; it would be "finito" for the Sunset East of NOL, but somehow I don't think that is too high on the list of CSX's concerns.'
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Aside from the Sunset Limited, which I have basically written off in the Amtrak system due to its operational nightmares.......Seems to me that the Crescent and City of New Orleans, in particular, may be affected the most in getting south of Atlanta and Memphis respectively.
Memphis and Atlanta may be short-term or temporary solutions - easy for re-crewing and turning equipment, but if it is going to be months (or longer) before service can get into New Orleans, then it would be prudent for Amtrak to get a short term plan to get the trains further south - to serve regions in between these points and New Orleans.
I believe the Crescent operated with a New Orleans crew base. Could this be re-arranged to operate with a New York base and thus get the train further south. Yes, Amtrak would have to hire or re-locate employees. I think the Crescent may be out of service for quite a little while to New Orleans, particularly if the bridge across Lake Ponchartrain is severely damaged - or sections destroyed. An alternative plan to get it further south or even via Birmingham to Mobile on the former Gulf Breeze route, may want to be considered - with bus connections to destinations from there.
Also with the truncation of services, if they are to continue, particularly the Crescent, isn't there an extra trainset that is freed up - and could be re-deployed to alleviate capacity issues on other Eastern long distance trains (i.e. Cardinal, resurrection of Federal etc.).
The devastation in New Orleans, is just hearbreaking.
Posts: 337 | Registered: Jun 2003
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The wise North American ailroader has a good memory. When the Sunset was newly extended to FL, it did run Miami-Pensacola during the period when the Bayou Canot bridge was out and di the same a couple other times. It had an odd collection of equipment, one set Superliner and one set Heritage. They even ran a slumbercoach through a couple of times as there were no 10-6 sleepers available (this was pre-Viewliner). Sadly in recent years the solution was to bus NOL-ORL and now they often just say "tough luck, no alternate transportation. Of course, that would be justified right now with impassible roads.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
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Mr. Norman, a CSX manager told me today that he believes management is considering dumping the Gulf Coast route. They would keep the JAX-Pensacola line if that happened. It would be a major expense to rebuild yet again and thus the line may just go away. However, this would shut down a busy artery as lots of freight moves NOL-Montgomery-northward which uses that Biloxi line. Closing the route may be easier said than done but I am sure they will have to think long and hard. The only alternates would be either via Memphis or else to use NS from NOL-Montgomery or B'ham then rejoin CSX. Obviously the Sunset would be gone if the route fades away. I fear my trip home from Phoenix in May could be my last on this scenic route. I am setting up a backup routing for my next trip a few months hence.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
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That is a good idea by JP re: the Crescent. They definitely need to serve Birmingham and running to Mobile might be a major public service. However the bus plan wouldn't work as the I-10 bridges over Lake Pontchartrain and at Biloxi Bay are wrecked so a bus couldn't get into NOL. I would imagine that running to Meridian or Hattiesburg would be the best option for now as they should have turning facilities. If New Orleans proved to be uninhabitable for a long time, it would be nice to run the planned Crescent Star to Dallas to permit transcon service but that will never happen. My bet is they will stick with service to Atlanta for now as it saves one trainset and a crew could be rested and turned same day. Remember: it's what is convenient for Amtrak, not the passenger, that counts. The same likely goes for the City.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
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The Mobile to New Orleans line was expensive to build and has historically been very expensive to maintain. However, it's near dead flat profile and location have up to this point made it worth keeping. The part Ivan took out was east of here, in fact on the old Pensacola and Atlantic. So far as I know Mobile to New Orleans made it relatively unscathed through that one.
Over the last 30 to 40 years all the long wood trestles have been replaced with concrete or steel structures. It will be most interesting to see how the about two mile long bride across Bay St. Louis fared. The wood trestle was taken out in about 1961, don't remember exactly when or the name of the hurricane, was replaced ultimately with a concrete structure which was thought to be about as hurricane proof as they could make it. Camille took the track off and disloged a lot of the spans from their bearings, but did not dump any into the water. It was reparired and been in service ever since.
I would normally considered this line relatively immune to abandonment, but this is CSX and with their history of pulling up various and sundry CTC's main lines anything is possible. The problem is lack of alternatives. Do they walk off from New Orleans altogether with both its local traffic and interchange? Do they go for NS trackage rights out of either Birmingham or Meridian? If so, that would represent an increase on this line that would at least require additional and lengthened sidings. maybe even sections of second main. Then if the point of access is Meridian, this menas rebuilding very minor branches from Montgomery and taking over the Meridian and Bigbee railroad, which by the way has a bridge over the Tombigbee River that is also used by an Alabama state highway between trains, one lane controlled by traffic lights at each end.
Nothing has been said so far about the status of the former New Orleans and Northeastern line of NS. This line follows the south shore of lake Ponchatrain for miles and then has a six mile long trestle across the east end of the lake. This trestle has recently been rebuilt in concrete.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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It's becoming increasingly that there rail passenger service into New Orleans is unlikely for months........I'd be surprised if Amtrak can return before Thanksgiving......and sometime in 2006 may be more likely.
In the meantime it would be a good thing if the 'Crescent' could at least operate to Birmingham. (For several years in the 1970's Southern operated daily to Birmingham and tri-weekly beyond) Further would be better.
Likewise, it would be good if the 'City' could eventually get as far as Jackson.
The 'Sunset'.......this train may never operate east of New Orleans again I fear.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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The bridge at Bay St. Louis is washed out and appears to be severed. This was noted by TV photos froma helicopter and confirmed by a railfan friend who used to live in Pass Christian. He also says the track is washed out on the Biloxi Bay bridge. Of course nobody is showing the CSX line near The Rigolets between the two lakes as it is unpopulated. That area has to be totally wiped out. The two lakes could be joined into one as the rail line built on fill is all that separated them. I fear the line is gone...it surely will be for many months. Trains Magazine online says the NS line across the lake has 4 1/2 miles of washed out track and many downed trees north of Slidell. Don't look for relief by rail for quite awhile.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
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IIRC, the CSX bridge was built with the spans on the order of 20 feet above normal water level, with the though that it would not be washed out by storm surges. This bridge is/was a heavy concrete trestle built in the mid 60's. It was damaged by Camille, with the track being washed off and a number of the spans being shifted partially or completely off their bearings, but none dropped into the water. I had seen a picture of what was the Bay St. Louis US 90 bridge pilings and caps minus spans, but not one of the railroad bridge. The RR bridge is non the gulf side of the US 90 bridge
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Tonight on TV they showed ground level footage of Basy St. Louis...very badly devastated. For awhile the rail line was shown and it was totally twisted in a fashion indicating storm surge. So there is more than "just" the bridge to repair. This still doesn't address the area just east of NOL that has to be wiped out and hardest to repair as it is essentially "at sea" in good times.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
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CSX states that repair work has begun on that route. Obviously this will be a very long process and could certainly be ammended. The Sunset's fate beyond that also will be worth watching for.
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