posted
I've always admired this guy, now I like him even better.... ---------------------------------------
Railway Age Conference: Passenger Trains on Freight Railroads
Comments by Eugene K. Skoropowski Managing Director, Capitol Corridor Joint Powers Authority, Oakland, California Recipient of the annual W. Graham Claytor, Jr. Award for distinguished service to passenger transportation
Thank you. This is my first award for anything I’ve done in the railroad business. I was actually here for the first such Railway Age Conference at the Lowe’s hotel when the recipient was Rhode Island. Senator Claiborne Pell.
Bill Vantuano reached me by cell phone in Maine on my way back to Boston on the Downeaster train, and told me that the ‘search committee’ reported that I was the only passenger rail official Railway Age could find in US that can do business w/UPRR, ‘and live to say a few positive things about it’!
Most of you know that I started as angry railroad commuter. I guess this is why I place so much attention to our customers, and that experience drives my customer focus on the Capitol Corridor trains.
I freely admit that my railroad career is a Personal mission: I simply want to prove Americans will ride trains IF….they are modern, frequent, reliable and reasonably time competitive; AND, of all things, that this can be done in a partnership with a private, Class I freight RR…. Of course, nowadays, $3-$4 per gallon gasoline only gives us more reason to invest in rail.
My personal mission is to prove the naysayers wrong- In many respects, we have already accomplished this by our successes in California.
Rather than talk about the Capitol Corridor success, I’d like to take this time to share a few personal perspectives from my own experiences…..
On relationship w/ freight railroads: My personal guidelines have been:
-Try to position myself and the Capitol Corridor JPA as a ‘valued customer’ for the railroad… I always ‘bring something to the table’ when I am ‘looking for something’ for our service
-Build personal trust, and a sound business partnership …. This usually means keeping your conversations ‘private’
-Don’t fight your issues publicly, especially in the media….. it is always the option of last resort.
-Have money in your pocket,….. your proposal has to be real to be taken seriously.
On Public Policy Issues: Stand together with the freight railroads on Public Policy wherever possible.
There are far more ‘common interests’ than ‘divisive interests’ among passenger and freight railroads (among them are safety, grade crossings, issues involving trucks, infrastructure investments, FRA, etc.)
There is a strong future for railroads, passenger and freight, but unified freight and passenger support for key policy, legislative and funding issues are key to gaining adequate levels of resources, especially for the railroad capital investments that are essential for survival. There will always be some differences, between the freight and passenger railroads, just as there are between highway and transit advocates, but we could learn at lot from them about building an alliance between freight and passenger rail services. We can be far more productive on all of these fronts when we are working together, rather than when we are working against each other
Beware of people who are advocating radical proposals for restructuring Amtrak, especially when there is no proposal for ‘additive capital funding’. Organizations like Amtrak can be restructured until the cows come home, but without a ‘defined policy mission’ and the capital funding to get there, there will never be real Amtrak ‘reform’.
Also, when we have a US DOT Secretary, going around the country spouting totally false information as the basis for such radical Amtrak restructuring, don’t we, collectively as the railroad industry, have an obligation to speak up and speak together? If we do not speak the truth to Congress, the media and the American people, who will?
Observations and Lessons Learned
For the Public Sector Passenger Agencies: -You are NOT entitled to run passenger trains on every track or right of way you can see or identify; Shiny rails will usually mean there are already lots of trains operating on those tracks
-There is both an asset value and a level-of-utility value to railroad lines; the level-of-utility value is generally what is important to a railroad, and that utility value can change, depending upon the capacity, condition and traffic base of the fixed facilities. This is the area where the public sector can work most beneficially with private railroads.
-You don’t need to own the physical asset itself: You do need to own the ‘right-of-access’ for your passenger trains, for a specific number of frequencies, and provision of a guaranteed minimum level of maintenance. You can negotiate these financial arrangements with a freight railroad to get where you want to be.
-Going the ‘political route’, or the media route, when you don’t initially get the answer you want from the railroad, will likely make your life more difficult in dealing with the railroads. The carrot works much better than the stick. Fighting your battles in the press changes the relationship. Trust is important, and, like in a marriage, infidelity may be forgiven, but is not likely to be forgotten.
-Remember, the railroads are not in the business of running trains. They are in the business of making money….. Using trains is how they do it. You and your project can either help them, or you can hinder them. Think about which one is more likely to make them cooperative.
-Whenever there is an issue to be resolved, hold the door open for a mutually beneficial approach to the objective you are seeking;
-Bring your lawyers and contract administrators into the foray ONLY AS A LAST RESORT. Have ‘the business-deal’ agreed to before you let them in the room.
-A KEY word of advice: learn to bite your tongue…. Especially when you’d just as soon bite something or someone else.
Observations and Lessons Learned For my friends in the Freight Railroads:
-Learn to say the words “We will jointly investigate the issue with you”, instead of the automatic “No!”, “Hell, no!”; or “don’t they know we’ve got all the aggravation we need right now…??.”
-Start to view passenger trains as a ‘commodity business’, sort of like a priority container train with windows. There can be a bonus. The passenger entity will most likely not only pay you for their use of your facilities, they can be the cheapest source of capital money you can find, ….BUT, they also expect, and are entitled to, top quality on-time performance for their investment.
-To be a real partnership, each side has to ‘give a little’ periodically. There will be times when a railroad will need the public support on public policy issues that are primarily freight related. Having a ‘public sector passenger partner’ you can go to, and ask for support in resolving the policy issue, is worth something if it helps protect the interests of the railroad. (We just recently worked with UPRR to accomplish a gubernatorial ‘veto’ of a legislative bill deemed onerous to the railroads.)
-Understand that passenger trains, including the long distance trains, are NOT going away, regardless of all the various attempts to influence Congress/Administration to do so. It is not going to happen; so get over it; and get on about the business of positioning yourself to work for a beneficial capital funding structure that works for both the passenger and freight businesses.
Ridership would be much higher on many long distance routes simply if there were a few more trains to choose from. Even across the Western Prairies and Mountains, there is a transportation market to be served (not a land-cruise market, but basic transportation). Just try to book a sleeper, almost anywhere. The wait is often months.
-Railroads know that the economics of passenger trains using freight routes can change. Track use charges, capitalized contributions towards maintenance, funding for capital investments that improve and expand capacity for freight as well as passenger services and/or reduce running time, or increased reliability, are all items the public can fund, and the value of these public investments escalate over time, BUT the railroad has to be able to ‘deliver’ on construction, maintenance, and reliability of service.
Relationships between people generally determine whether a business relationship will work. Get to know, and trust, the people on the public sector side. A deal that is structured right can work for everyone. Personal commitment, trust and respect for the interests of all of the parties, are essential ingredients to ‘obtaining funding’ and delivering programs.
A Key Issue for both Public Agencies, Amtrak and Freight Railroads
Hire smart, young people. Mentor them. Train them well, and pay them well. They are the future of this industry. However, right now, most passenger railroad management salaries, especially in Amtrak, are viewed as ‘far less than competitive’, especially in the West where you can’t even buy ‘an outhouse’ to live in for less than a half million dollars. (San Francisco Bay Area median house costs $683,000)
Smart young folks will go after the best offers and positions with potential for growth. Many have a personal passion and interest in the railroad business (they are NOT ‘rail fans’, but they are people who like and believe in this business). If we don’t hire them, train them and pay them well, there will be no strong railroad industry in the future, passenger or freight.
A Message for the US DOT and the FRA:
You have the potential to be an advocate for this industry, both freight and passenger. You have a potential ‘cheering section’ out there, ready and waiting to embrace and work for meaningful policies and funding programs that will grow the railroad industry. Please stop the divisive, and in some cases, untruthful rhetoric, to try to achieve a theoretical political ideology. Please do talk to us who spend every day in ‘the operational trenches’…. We can provide you with both guidance and a dose of reality.
Stop listening to these ‘career policy-wonks’ and ‘disaffected and disgruntled’ quasi-rail advocates, who have never actually run an operation or a business in their lives. Please listen to us, and work with us, to develop a program that will grow the railroad business, passenger and freight, in a way that is beneficial and profitable for the freight roads, and our economy, while strengthening the delivery of intercity passenger rail as a real public service to all parts of our country.
A few Questions to ponder for the future:
-Are the Class I railroads of today simply too big to manage? Can one corporate entity deal with the operation and maintenance of track and facilities across the enormous geographic territory now ‘owned’ by a single railroad? Freight traffic will likely continue to grow, and demand for passenger trains will increase, particularly in corridor services (which generally are the same routes as heavy freight traffic), so what is the dividing line for separate operations of passenger and freight? Should there be dedicated passenger-only tracks? Where? At what speeds should they operate? What role should the highway industry and federal funding play in grade separation projects?
-How serious will the federal government take the issue of improving security and access to railroad rights of way? Will grade-crossing elimination be viewed as a safety and security measure to reduce the potential of unauthorized access to tracks by any passing vehicle, in addition to its obvious safety benefits?
-I don’t have these answers…. And while I might have opinions on these issues, it is the next generation of people in the railroad industry that will need to sort out these answers. Demand for railroad service, freight and passenger, is going to do nothing but grow in the coming decades. Whether or not it is successful and sustained growth depends upon HOW it is done.
Wrap –up
It is always an ‘ego uplift’ to be recognized for the work you are actually paid to do.
While I may take this award with me, and my name may be on it, there are a long list of people who have helped me and mentored me along my career’s path, and given me ‘a chance’ to show that passenger trains can work in this country, that people will ride them in the right conditions, and by God, you can even work constructively with a major freight railroad not exactly known for its love of passenger trains, to accomplish this.
Some of my mentors and ‘teachers’ along the way for this ‘professional architect-turned-railroader’ have been Dave Gunn and Brew Clarke, (Boston days), and George Miller and Jim Archibald, (Philadelphia days) and Kent Olsen, Dave Gedney, (from my Fluor Corporation days) and most recently, Tom Margro (BART GM) who brought me back from Europe to my current job more than 6 years ago.
Also, a sincere thank you is in order to my partners and friends at the Union Pacific Railroad, especially Jerry Wilmoth and Tom Mulligan, but also Tom Jacobi, Bill Wimmer, Tom Ogee, Tom Murphy, and many more…. I want you all to know how much ‘the reputation of Union Pacific is being tarnished’ by working as such constructive partners with us on our Capitol Corridor passenger services in California….. Our Capitol Corridor success would not be what it is without the partnership with Union Pacific, and that’s what this conference is all about!.
I want say a special personal and public ‘thank you’ to David Kutrosky, who is here again this year with me. David is representative of the high-quality talent we have assembled in the Capitol Corridor staff. David IS the next generation of passenger railroader. He is my right hand at the Capitol Corridor (that’s the hand that’s on the wallet).
These folks at Union Pacific, and our state funding partner Caltrans, together with Amtrak our operating partner, make the Capitol Corridor work and achieve success.
And to my dear wife of almost 40 years, Joann, thank you for being so supportive of me and letting me ‘do my thing’ all these years, moving you all around the world, so I could work with modern passenger trains, and learn from the best …
To Railway Age, and Bill Vantuano, and all of you here, I extend a sincere ‘thank you’.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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-------------------- "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's life." Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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It has been a long time since I have seen so much wisdom in so few words. Can this be made required reading for everyone involved in transportation? Yes, and you will be tested on your understanding of the assignment.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Thank you, Mr Toy, for posting this message. Such inspired and inspiring reading!
Posts: 122 | From: Milwaukee, WI USA | Registered: Jun 2004
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quote:Originally posted by jgart56: Can we get him to go talk some sense to Normie?
At first I hoped that Norman was ignorant. I've since come to the conclusion that he's just a liar.
Simple ignorance would have been better.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
A KEY WORD OF ADVICE --- lEARN TO BITE YOUR TONGUE
A lesson that has application at this forum. Although we are not communicating directly with those whose views we disagree with they are aware of the postings to this site, and other sites. If they seek ways to discredit us then angry and irrational rantings give them an easy way to do so.
Posts: 467 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by RRCHINA: A KEY WORD OF ADVICE --- lEARN TO BITE YOUR TONGUE
A lesson that has application at this forum. Although we are not communicating directly with those whose views we disagree with they are aware of the postings to this site, and other sites. If they seek ways to discredit us then angry and irrational rantings give them an easy way to do so.
What brought this on? There must be something I am not seeing here, as I do not see anything in this post that it could apply to except possibly the reference to Norman Mineta as a liar. Surely by the time he has gotten this high in politics Mineta has been called much worse. Stronger things than this have been said in the "reputable mainstream" press. Besides which, given the large difference between easily observable reality and his statements, if Mineta is still singing the same song he was a few months ago it is very difficult to find a reason for it other than lying or stupidity, neither of which is an admirable trait. Abot the only thing left is to be bribed, and at least the other possibilities are not criminal acts for personal gain.
The point here is that Mr. Skoropowski managed in only two short paragraphs to clearly state the obvious errors of DOT and the FRA on the whole railroad issue, both freight and passenger. In fact, in one sentence he nailed exactly what Mineta is doing wrong.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
As I have posted in the past, Mineta was obviously at Beech Grove, looking at the cars sitting there waiting to be repaired, when he came up with his 'trains going nowhere with no people on them' statement.
Yes, he could be that stupid...
Or he was simply lying...
Who knows?
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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As far as I am concerned, let "them" read what's being said at our Forum! Maybe "they" will learn something from the well educated Members here!
I actually believe that if "they" are aware of this forum, "they" probably think we are a bunch of fanatics living in the past pushing an antiquated form of transportation and aren't worthy of much attention!
Posts: 171 | From: Aurora, Illinois | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Dear friends, My comment, quoting from Mr. Skoropowski, was intended to apply to more than this immediate topic. From time to time we see "opinions" that are less than constructive and occasionally irrational or strictly political,
The problems of AMTRAK have been passed through administrations of both parties with similar results. I think " BITE YOUR TONGUE " is almost always the more constructive approach. If you wish to be listened to, first you must be heard. Don't alienate those you wish to convince before you can make your presentation.
Posts: 467 | From: Prescott, AZ USA | Registered: Mar 2002
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