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Am currently on my 20 day vacation using Amtrak. (Now in Seattle, WA). Had the new Diner Lite Menu on both the Lake Shore Limited and the Southwest Chief --- took last Coast Starlite with old menu -- Diner lite to be implemented on next trip out (how about that for luck). Essentially if it was cooked on the grill it is now gone !! That means no more Steak and no more fresh eggs or bacon for breakfast -- these are the most noticed changes. Amtrak staff is quite careful to emphasize that this is not microwaved meals and is instead meals cooked in a convection oven (they sort of fail to answer when you ask if pre-prepared off site.) I had Roasted half chicken and Beef shanks for my two dinner selections (both of which I have had before) and they tasted the same. The thin melamine/plastic dinnerware it is now served on, however, does nothing to help the presentation of the meal. Salads appear less appealing and less fresh --- dressing is fast food resturant tear open packets. Menu for dinner included one beef entree, one chicken entree, one fish entree, a daily special and a vegetarian meal (both times pasta) and an Angus beefburger plate (how that is cooked without a grill I don't care to know). Dessert is now limited to three choices -- Fruit ,Cheesecake, and one other item (it was Bundt chocolate cake on the SWC.) Breakfast seems much more limited with choices now --- Continental breakfast, Bob Evans Scramble, French Toast and an Omelet selection. (Not well recieved by two at my table and an Amtrak eployee hinted is already on its way out. Lunch seems much the same as it has been. Apparantly the cost saving is one less Cook and no Dishwasher. I question if Amtrak saves enough $$ to justify the somewhat less appealing menu. All in all I would rate it a Grade less than before. Will be here in Seattle for a few days and then will next be on the Empire Builder which retained the old menu. Will save the full "trip report" for later. -------Dee
Posts: 460 | From: North Central CT | Registered: May 2004
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Thanks for the report. Make sure you let Amtrak know what you think. Something tells me this will eventually fall into the same dustbin as the 1980s microwaved TV dinner experiment. (From some reports I've read, some of the current offerings are even worse.)
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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Thanks for your report. Interestingly, the Bob Evans breakfast scramble was a breakfast offering last month on the California Zephyr even though they were still preparing (apparantly only some though) meals on board.
I gave it a try the second morning out while we were sitting in the hole for an hour in Winnemucca, NV. Must admit that I had expected better with the Bob Evans endorsement and wish that I had had the French Toast instead!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Mr. Toy: Thanks for the report. Make sure you let Amtrak know what you think. Something tells me this will eventually fall into the same dustbin as the 1980s microwaved TV dinner experiment. (From some reports I've read, some of the current offerings are even worse.)
When Amtrak tried out "microwave" dinners, did they reduce the Onboard crew as drastic as they are now? Eliminating half the Dining Car staff could bring permanent scars for the future.
Posts: 1082 | From: Los Angeles, CA. USA | Registered: Aug 2003
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I don't remember the details, but I am pretty sure they cut back the kitchen crews. How many chefs does it take to zap a TV dinner?
I vividly remember one Turkey dinner I had. It was exactly the same as those sold in the freezer section by Swanson, though with a bit more meat. My dinner companions were very nice, though, and we had a nice chat. Nobody at my table really complained about the food, and I was of the age when TV dinners were gourmet bachelor food, so I didn't mind too much. But I had experienced better on the train before, so I knew the difference.
I also took it in the context of the times. Inflation was rampant, and everybody was cutting costs everywhere. Cheap was very much in fashion in those days, not just with food, but in just about everything sold in America. However, the quality of American made products took a huge nosedive and people began to take their business elewhere. That's one reason why Japanese products became so popular. We're still paying the price for that.
Might mention that Superliner design came out of this period, wherein economy was considered more important than comfort. That's when train rest rooms went from being spacious and comfortable to smaller than a phone booth.
But today things are different in that people are more sophisticated and expect good quality for their money. So I think the new Amtrak menu will be even less well received than before.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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Not to nitpick, but this was "Simplified Dining Service" not "Diner Lite", right?
(AFAIK, "Diner Lite", the combo Sightseer/Diner plan, has not yet been inflicted on any train, or do I have it backwards?)
Posts: 108 | From: Culver City, CA, US | Registered: Oct 2004
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rY --- A rose by any name - well you know------- This is the new menu being served in the existing diner cars. It is referred to by Amtrak employees on the train as "Diner Lite". Call it what you will -- I call it a downgrade. Less choice, less freshly prepared and served on disposible plastic ware. Dee (Off to catch my next ld train tomorrow.)
Posts: 460 | From: North Central CT | Registered: May 2004
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As I was reading this I was explaining the menu changes to my husband. His reply: "So they ruined the food, huh?"
Posts: 149 | From: Joliet, IL USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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So with less people occupying the Trans Dorm/Sleeper (Crew Car), I would think Amtrak would want to open this car up to revenue passengers, as we all know the scrutiny Amtrak long distance trains are under - will logic flow with this concept? We shall see. End sarcasm...
Posts: 337 | Registered: Jun 2003
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JP, that's a decent idea in concept, but there are issues with that which are not going to go away. First, that space is open on the Eagle and possibly other trains (City maybe?). Secondly, as is the case with the extremely brief Dorm Lounge experiment on the single-level trains, train crews have different operating hours than typical sleeper passengers, and there are more people up there than you may realize. It all boils down to this: crew cars and revenue cars are separate for a reason. If you've spent the last twenty hours working and have to wake up tomorrow at 5:30, screw on the smile and go back at it, do you want someone opening your door? The single-level dorm cars were supposed to be half smoking lounge, and that lasted about two weeks with elevated noise levels, wandering passengers, and thefts from crew lockers and rooms. Those rooms have to occupy the current crew, the next crew, the dining car staff, and any deadheading members as well. Also keep in mind the simplified diner service is not something Amtrak ever wanted to do, instead brought on by an imbecilic sectretary of transportation and staff. Just like after the terror attacks, just like last fall when gas hit $3.50, and just like what's going to happen this summer, people are crying out, "Where are our alternatives?" and the response is something like, "There, that's what's left of it." Do you think Amtrak wanted to cancel the Broadway, Pioneer, and Desert Wind? Do you think they wanted to stop doing heavy overhauls on brand new locomotives? Do you think they wanted to add hours to the schedules to make room for dead weight on the back of the train? Do you think they wanted to retire dome cars and slumbercoaches and coaches with life-sized bathrooms? No, but those bathrooms became the target of doctor-chasing lawyers. Their people do (in my opinion) an excellent job of making the best out of what they are given and (most of the time) making it work. Are you pundits saying you've never eaten at Chili's, Applebee's, Ruby Tuesday's, Friendly's, Denny's, Don Pablo's (all so posessive!), Olive Garden, any hotel restaurant, Red Lobster, Domino's, Pizza Smut/KFC/Taco Bell, Outback Steakhouse, Cracker Barrel, ... Do I need to continue? Sure, they're not all-convection-all-the-time, but did you ever figure out what is in the trucks criscrossing the country with a huge Craker Barrel logos on them? Do you think they're peeling and boiling and mashing potatoes, breading chicken, and chopping up salads back there? To be completely honest, lots of chain-restaurant food is made up somewhere else and flash-frozen. In fact, Amtrak's food has been like this for a lot longer than a month. Considering the Gomers they've got working in the kitchens of these places (restaurants, not so much Amtrak) I think it's good that all they have to do to your chicken is reheat it. I'm going to curtail the commentary knowing that this will be painful truth for a lot of people. I will judge the food by how it tastes and what it's made from, not by whether or not you can get one single type of food anymore or where it was prepared. I'm personally happy every day I see the Lakeshore go by and it still has a heritage diner in it, and people are sitting at the tables having a meal together and looking out the window the way it's supposed to be. They don't care that the car is 54 years old and has close to fifteen million miles on it, and with some of the rebuilds lately, they can't tell. This is the system we've got, like it or not, whether or not you approve of how we got here, so work together and make the most of it. And as Mr. Toy points out, dialogue makes the system work. Write a letter to Amtrak explaining what you liked (there's got to be something in there) and what could use improvement. That's how to make the system work better, and that's what some of Amtrak's people are getting paid to do.
Posts: 391 | From: Schenectady | Registered: Jan 2002
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My wife says we're not going anywhere by train (well, except the EB to Seattle) until Amtrak Sees The Light and restores food service to its formerly adequate levels. And we've been to Seattle for three years running. Doing a beach vacation this year ...
Posts: 58 | From: Owensboro, KY USA | Registered: Apr 2002
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I have seen some posts on the forum lately stating people are not going to use Amtrak any more until the food situation goes back the way it was. this is exactly what the administration is hoping for. Ridership down and they have a wonderful excuse for dismantling Amtrak. Think about it!
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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I agree with train lady. The current food situation is not Amtrak's fault, it's the governments! Amtrak's hands are tied. If people stop taking the train we're only going to loose more things (I've heard sleepers are next)!
Posts: 13 | From: So Cal | Registered: May 2006
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I can handle the reduction in food service, and "diner lite" is probably not "terrible" (I'll find out this summer). But if AMTRAK takes away the sleeping cars, as Jamie stated, I may not ride trains any more............
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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I think the answer is not to stop using Amtrak but to start screaming to our congress people. If they get enough mail on the subject it could help especially with elections coming up.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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You made good sense when you said, "Do you think they're peeling and boiling and mashing potatoes, breading chicken, and chopping up salads back there? To be completely honest, lots of chain-restaurant food is made up somewhere else and flash-frozen."
Although I may not be as worldly as some people on this board, I do consider myself a fairly good judge of food. One of my highest expectations of "eating out" is not to get food poisoning and I have certainly had my share of indigestion on Amtrak before they changed their menu.
Let's face it, some of the food they served on Amtrak prior to the change was pretty crappy. The salad and the bread were consistently bad.
And some of the food was pretty good but I'm with Chris when he said that he found nothing wrong with the new simplified menu.
As far as the plastic plates, cups and tableclothes are concerned, I would imagine that this particular change is saving the environment an enormous amount of water. I would be curious to know how Amtrak handles the waste that they generate, however.
Anybody who shops at Costco knows you can get an amazing lamb shank or Alaskan Wild Samon that comes preseasoned in its own bag and only requires a few minutes of microwaving. That stuff comes out delicious: Every time.
All I'm trying to say is that the sky has not fallen in and that anybody who chooses to eat in the dining car will probably not regret that decision.
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Nice to read some voices of reason here like Amtrak 207, Mr. Reuben and the always-reasonable Chris G. This thread made me think of the old BB King blues song "The Grill is gone, the Grill has gone away..."
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: I can handle the reduction in food service, and "diner lite" is probably not "terrible" (I'll find out this summer). But if AMTRAK takes away the sleeping cars, as Jamie stated, I may not ride trains any more............
I'll continue to ride trains if Amtrak takes away sleeping cars.........
It's just that the trains I ride will be in places like Cass, WV; Durango, CO; Chama, NM; Chattanooga, TN and........oh yes, for a really big trip every two or three years, VIA Rail's Canadian!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Taking away sleeping cars has been a looming threat since 1971...I need a rolleyes smiley: I doubt it will happen. Sure, Amtrak will get scolded, then sent on its way with that year's funding.
My Simplified Dining experience was part good and bad. The braised beef entree was by far the worst. It had the exact same beef you would use for stew. I like stew, but I don't like eating a stringy, fatty glob of meat. Breakfast seemed the same as before.
I had some problems with lunch. I ordered the "Chicken Salad" and it was EXACTLY the same as the "tub" of chicken salad you can order in the cafe car. All the cook in the dining car did was dump the contents onto a disposable plate-didn't even bother to pour the Caesar dressing on. One of my table mates ordered "Today's Sandwich" and it looked like the sub sandwiches you buy in the cafe car! I've heard the Angus burger is now downgraded to what you get in the cafe car as well.
Now, I realize my trip was almost 3 months ago, and my trip was the first time the crew was operating with the Simplified Menu, so maybe things have changed. If they offered a GOOD beef entree, and something more hearty for lunch, I'd be happy.
I also realize that everyone has their own opinion when it comes to food. However, I personally am going to not take as many trips as I used to unless they make this food better. I don't care if it was pre-prepared, just improve the quality!
Posts: 286 | From: Knee deep in the retention tank | Registered: Jan 2006
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If "HOT" food service can not be done "right" then Amtrak should switch to all COLD food service. It does not necessarily have to be "hot" to be top quality.
I understand perfectly the "dilemma" Amtrak faces related to reducing food costs. I AM willing to accept change. However, there is a RIGHT way and a WRONG way to do this.
In my humble opinion, it will be very, very difficult for Amtrak to establish any "consistency" in food quality using the present "format"----which is STILL attempting to serve "hot" , top quality food. That being the case , RATHER THAN continuing the trend for countless months , I think a decision needs to be made related to SWITCHING to COLD food service only.
Again, I will mention the great cold tray meals served on the east-bound Empire Builder to first-class passenbgers out of Portland. I have tried these and they are DELICIOUS. It IS possible to serve terrific hoagies and specialty sandwiches cold. Think of cold chicken, steak and taco salads. These can be wonderful even if prepared in advance. For something "warm" , micro-waveable Progresso soups can be very good.
The bottom line is that there ARE viable OPTIONS for Amtrak to explore to STILL save money. My hope is that Amtrak management does not get "stuck" on the idea that "come ___or high water" we will STILL attempt to serve "HOT" meals. I simply think this will NEVER work to CONSISTENT QUALITY. That being the case , make the "smart" choice and switch to COLD food service entirely.
I would FAR RATHER have top quality COLD FOOD than mediocre or lousy "HOT" food.
Posts: 187 | From: Pittsburgh , PA | Registered: Apr 2001
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Well....There are some interesting views here. I tried to refrain, but I will add my two cents worth. I do believe that pre packaged/fast frozen (whatever)food can be tasty and acceptable and is a good idea for Amtrak. I don't mind it at all.But when it is presented poorly (plastic plates)and unsatisfying to one's palate it is not acceptable. Especially when one is doing LD travel. Again it is not Amtrak's doing..it is the decievingly tax saving measures set forth by our government. The bottom line is it shouldn't be happening. Many of us love rail travel so much that we will overlook the changes being made. I love it too. Guess I can be too critical when it comes to the dining experience. It was the way I was raised I guess. I do believe these "tax saving" measures won't do much for attracting/keeping new customers who decide to try LD travel on Amtrak.
Posts: 498 | From: New Hope, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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While I doubt, Mr. 20th Century, that any Amtrak dining experience could be on a par with Chez Odette (never mind that restaurant's infamy; it wasn't their fault), one must be prepared to accept that a "dining experience' aboard a tax supported conveyance is simply going to be a "chow down". It is too easy to throw slings and arrows at anything other.
However, if pre package is the route that must be traveled, at least emulate what airlines do "for the folks up front". If that is too much, then someone at Amtrak ought to go to the frozen food section at their grocer, and pick up a Stouffer (author not affiliated in any way, be such employment or holding an equity position, with Societe du Produits Nestle SA) entre or two. Properly prepared (in my case, 2hr in a 150dg oven) and presented will go a long way to alleviate any "microfood" connotation.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I think that probably the bottom line of the complaints is a matter of $$$. If you are being charged in excess of $500 for a two day trip one's expectation is the food should be better than chain resturant fare. I have experienced this change in food menu/prep in the past three weeks on three seperate LD trains (LSL, SWC, CS). I am also familiar with what was formerly available. Not all is bad (indeed some is the same) but there is a decided decline in quality in some offerings and choice. (One ex. salads -I have this funny expectation that the iceberg lettuce should be crisp for instance and adorned by more than a small chunk of tomato and a few croutons.) I guess what I am trying to say is that in reality I am not looking for a "Chez Fancy" dining experience ---- but then do not charge me "Chez Fancy" prices. Let us all hope that Amtrak will continue to "tinker" with things. I suspect that there is a "middle road". One that will satisfy both the consumer and the bean counters. (Yes I agree that changes needed to be made. I think my past posts on this subject on this and other forums indicate that.)
Posts: 460 | From: North Central CT | Registered: May 2004
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Chez Odette!!!! Hardly, Mr.Norman.I see you are familiar with my locale! I have only recently moved to New Hope in October. As DEE states for the cost of a sleeper ticket some more thought can be given to menu selection and food prep/presentaton. Your suggestion to adapt what they serve "up front" on airlines is well taken. But then again (using my miles to upgrade) in AA business class the serving of braised short ribs tasted like it was boiled in water. By the way I prefer the Center Bridge Inn to Chez Odette. Also there is a somewhat newer dining spot....cajun style dining. "Marsha Brown's" on Main St. My problem is that I am spoiled with "good eats" at home. Always enjoy your posts Mr.Norman.
Posts: 498 | From: New Hope, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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I doubt it will happen. Sure, Amtrak will get scolded, then sent on its way with that year's funding.
