posted
I am not that well versed in the mechanics of the Rail Passenger Service Act of 1970 and the creation of AMTRAK so if the answer to my questions are common knowledge, then I apologize for my ignorance.
What I would like to know is, does the R.P.S.A. prevent other companies from competing with Amtrak for intercity passenger service or is it just that no one wants the hassle of trying to negotiate with the freight lines for usage of the tracks? In theory, could another company start up passenger service to compete with Amtrak if someone had the will and the money to do so?
Posts: 62 | From: North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2001
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posted
Mr. Jones, from one who has "been there done that" i.e. I was employed in the railroad industry on A-Day, a party OTHER THAN the railroads which ceded their franchise of operating passneger trains to Amtrak is free to negotiate with the roads for the operation of passenger trains over their lines.
But any such party had best be prepared to accept that "the price must be right", as only Amtrak, as delineated within Article II of the May 1, 1971 Agreement has the RIGHT of access, i.e. you WILL negotiate with Amtrak in good faith reasonable terms and conditions, to the road's trackage.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
What is important to understand is that railroad tracks, unlike airports and highways, are privately owned and not open to anyone who owns the appropriate vehicle.
Anyone who owns a fleet of airplanes and meets various legal requirements can start an airline and use any airport. Not so with railroads. As a condition of taking taking over passenger trains, it was agreed that only Amtrak would have guaranteed rights of access to the tracks at reasonable cost - specifically the actual cost of handling each train. This simplifies things for the host railroads, so that they don't have to spend time and money trying to satisfy a hodge-podge of operators each with their own agendas. They remain quite adamant that they will not open their tracks to competing operators. Even private tour trains, such as GrandLuxe Railtours (formerly American Orient Express) contracts to Amtrak for locomotives and crews for that reason. For simplicity, others simply attach private cars to regularly scheduled Amtrak trains.
As Mr. Norman noted, anyone is free to approach a freight railroad and try to negotiate access rights, but the host railroad is free to turn them down for any reason, or charge a price that is too high to make the effort worthwhile.
Some degree of privatization could be worked out by subcontracting Amtrak's on-board services to outside bidders. Theoretically, everything behind the locomotives could be privatized. However, there would still be only one contractor per route and no real competition except at contract renewal time. Nor are there any guarantees that a contractor - with a profit motive - could do the job any cheaper than Amtrak can.
But that's not to say Amtrak has no competition. In the larger transportation market, Amtrak does compete with the private automobile, greyhound, and airlines.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
Was that a "re-branding" of the AOE or did they actually sell the operation? What about the hotels? It's of interest to me since Orient Express bought the El Encanto Hotel about three blocks from my house and is supposed to be starting a $17 million (much needed) makeover.
Frank in gloriously sunny SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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My understanding is that AOE is now owned by Colorado Rail Car, the same folks who remanufacture luxary passenger cars (double deck sleeping car with penthouse views coming soon!) and are marketing the DMU self-powered passenger cars. The renaming was to avoid confusion with the 'other' Orient Express.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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The following exerpt from the press release on the AOE (now GrandLuxe) website should help to clarify the new ownership. Note the last sentence.
"GRANDLUXE RAIL JOURNEYS WELCOMES NEW OWNERSHIP
GrandLuxe Holdings, LLC Purchases the Train Formerly Known as the American Orient Express
EVERGREEN, CO (May 30, 2006) – The acquisition of GrandLuxe Rail Journeys (formerly the American Orient Express) by GrandLuxe Holdings, LLC was announced today by Thomas G. Rader, Chairman of GrandLuxe Holdings. Regarded as America’s premier private rail operator, GrandLuxe Rail Journeys was purchased from Oregon Rail Holdings, of Portland, Ore. Rader, a veteran of the rail and tour industry, also founded Colorado Railcar Manufacturing, which builds luxury passenger railcars for which he has been awarded a number of U.S. and Canadian patents. However, the two companies are mutually exclusive operations."
Posts: 46 | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
Mr. Norman, could you clarify two scenarios for me? #1) I want to operate a passenger rail service between Seattle and Portland (competing with Amtrak), do I need approval from both Amtrak and BNSF (host railroad) to operate? #2) I want to operate between Tacoma and Yakima, WA (not in competition with Amtrak). Whose approvals must I have to operate?
Posts: 78 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jun 2006
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You have to have enough MONEY to make BNSF and/or UP decide your rail service is worth their while. Trust me, the railroads will find a rate for you to haul passengers. You may not like their rate, but they will give you a rate.
Oh by the way, YOUR equipment will have to be FRA compliant (or grandfathered) and will have to meet BNSF or UP operations standards.
There is also the small matter of creating passenger infrastructure at various towns along your route. Don't count on either BNSF or UP still having that; they have over the past 35 years shed their stations and platforms.
-------------------- The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Rader has only gone bankrupt twice that I know of.
Anyone care to bet on when Grandluxe nee AOE makes its last run?
-------------------- The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Seattle to Portland? Since this is already an Amtrrak route, the difficulties to start something may be even greater. Not to mention, using stations that Amtrak already owns. The state of Washington is putting a lot of money into this service, so you would probably also have to deal with them.
Let's see. you will have to have equipment and money as already mentioned, then develop agreements with: 1. BNSF 2. Amtrak 3. State of Washington 4. State of Oregon 5. Environmental statement of no adverse impact Who knows who all else?
Hope you have an unlimited amount of money and time to get into this.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Seattle to Portland? Since this is already an Amtrrak route, the difficulties to start something may be even greater. Not to mention, using stations that Amtrak already owns. The state of Washington is putting a lot of money into this service, so you would probably also have to deal with them.
Let's see. you will have to have equipment and money as already mentioned, then develop agreements with: 1. BNSF 2. Amtrak 3. State of Washington 4. State of Oregon 5. Environmental statement of no adverse impact Who knows who all else?
Hope you have an unlimited amount of money and time to get into this.
George
But there are three or four private operators who would love to have this route. I know this is true because Norm Mineta said so.
NOT!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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