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I'm starting this thread as an alternative to the discussion of what's going on down here that 'hijacked' the 'Which One's Were Best' thread.
Doodlebug, Palmland, George Harris, Tanner, DMWNC1959 who may still be out there even though he's not in NC anymore, 1702, et al, feel free to chime in!
Let's talk about the proposed Wilmington train......first and foremost though, I am not a travel 'professional' and have no 'inside information'. What I am is an enthusiast, a passenger rail advocate who is proud to have picketed Norm Minetta's February 2005 visit to Charlotte (where he explained that his plan for destroying Amtrak was better than letting Amtrak die on it's own), and a former NCDOT Volunteer Train Host working the Piedmont from Raleigh to Charlotte from 1995 until 1998. I stopped train hosting when I moved from Fayetteville, NC to the Asheville area in 1998.
OK - The Wilmington train. Our current state secretary of transportation is from the Wilmington area and that service has gotten more attention than Asheville for the last five years or so. As George points out, Wilmington to the northeast via a connection (or through cars even) to either the Palmetto or Carolinian at Wilson or Rocky Mount would make more sense than going to Raleigh. I agree. Doing this would mean restoring about 25 miles of track near Castle Hayne, NC (just north of Wilmington) which CSX eagerly ripped out in the 1980's.
Of course the funds are coming from Raleigh and the train would most likely go to Raleigh. Existing service facilities are in the Capitol city and if it's NCDOT equipment being used, it would also stand to reason that the train would go to Raleigh.
One of two routes for this train being considered would restore the Castle Hayne trackage. The train would operate northwesterly from Wilmington to the Greenville, NC area on CSX trackage and then turn westward on NS. A train on this route would stop at the restored depot in Selma, NC where connections to the northeast could be made with the Palmetto and/or Carolinian.
The other possible route would serve a larger population (primarily Fayetteville and Ft. Bragg) but there are 'quadrant' problems. Option B would have the train depart Wilmington pointed towards Charlotte on CSX tracks which are still in place. At Pembroke, NC the train would turn northeasterly onto the CSX 'A' line (used by the Palmetto, Silver Meteor, and Auto-Train) through Fayetteville and Dunn, NC to Selma where it then turn northwestward on NS to reach Raleigh.
The problems here are that new connecting tracks would have to be built at both Pembroke and Selma to prevent time-consuming back-up moves. In Selma the existing connections are in the northwest (used by Silver Star and Carolinian) and northeast quadrants. This operation would require a southwest quadrant connection through a subsidized housing project.
The existing connection in Pembroke is in the northwest quadrant. This was added by CSX when they foolishly chose to abandon the parallel 'S', or former Seaboard mainline north of Raleigh. The Wilmington passenger train would need the connection in the northeast quadrant at Pembroke. While Pembroke is a college town just waiting to be tapped, this new connection would wipe out a significant portion (like two blocks) of the downtown Pembroke business district. Pembroke is a 'small' college town and, not surprisingly, the mayor is not a supporter of this construction plan that would make his town even smaller. He would, understandably, prefer to see Amtrak's Palmetto add Pembroke as a stop instead!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Interesting choices, each with its own problems. I think the best option is to bite the bullet and rebuild the 25 miles between Wallace and Castle Hayne then take the NS over to Selma. Advantages are: Eliminate connection and political issues at Pembroke and Selma; avoid CSX freight interference at their Wilmington Davis yard and the mainline; the state has leverage on operations over the NS from Goldsboro to Selma; it's about 45 miles shorter.
Also, it would be easy down the road, to split at Selma with and originate a Richmond/Washington section.
I know the state has surveyed the abandoned line and of course the grading is still in place. Only intereference between Wallace and Goldsboro is a local freight and an occasional grain train to the turkey feed mills in the area. Speed limit is 40 on that trackage so some work would have to be done there I suspect (you can be sure CSX will require it).
I think a southwest quadrant connection at Selma is still a good idea as it would allow the Piedmont to terminate at Fayetteville rather than Raleigh without an additional set of equipment. Would only require about 90 minutes additional running time and work well especially if a third train is added to the service.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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CSX for years, and maybe still, seems to be of the mind that if there is more than one way to get from "A" to "B" all of them except the one cheapest to maintain needs to be abandoned. Added circuity seemed not to be a consideration. This appears to be the esssence of the decision to leave the ex-SAL as the one line into Wilmington and abandon chunks of both the ex-ACL lines. Looking at maps, it appears that the driver behind abandoning this Wallace to Castle Hayne segment was the Northeast Cape Fear River drawbridge just north of Castle Hayne. The prime question is, is the bridge still there and just out of service or has it been removed?Bridges over navigable waterwasy add expense and liability and drawbridges are even more expensive to maintain. This could make a huge difference in the cost of putting this section back in service, which in a 2004 report was estimated at about $50 million.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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In the meantime could someone figure out the easiest way to get from DCto Asheville? My cousins just moved there from Charleston. Last year we took the Palmetto to Chas, and they met us there. We then all drove the 4 hours to Asheville to see the new "diggs".We could have gone to Columbia as it's a shorter drive from there but the train gets in in the middle of the night. So is there an easier solution now that their move is complete?
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Not being from eastern NC, I am not sure of the drawbridge situation at Castle Hayne. I am a member of the Carolina Association of Railroad Passengers email group though and I have posed that question to those folks. Should have a response in a day or two.
Train Lady,
For Amtrak to Asheville from DC, I recommend taking the Carolinian to either Greensboro or High Point. IF someone can pick you up it's about a three hour drive to Asheville from the train station. You'll reach Asheville before midnight if the Carolinian is within two hours of being on-time.
For returning to the DC area I recommend being driven to Greenville, SC (90 minutes max) and catching the Crescent northbound overnight.
If you must rely on bus connections, your best station currently for interfacing with Greyhound would be Spartanburg, SC. Greyhound departs there for Asheville at 8:40am (arrive 10:25am) currently and returns departing Asheville at 4:05pm (arriving Spartanburg at 6:00pm). Obviously not a good option as the Spartanburg station is unmanned and would not be open until train time which is near midnight.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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The following is a reply from Bill Graves on the CAPT email group regarding the Cape Fear River drawbridge at Castle Hayne on the former ACL line.
"Not having seen a reply yet, I will venture that based ONLY on what one can see from I-40 as it crosses the Northeast Cape Fear bridge, the rail bridge, which is visible just to the west, is missing the center span(s?) and was being used as a diving platform by the locals/camp ground near by! Other nearby track to the north may be gone too, but I do know that the aggregate plants just to the south of the river crossing appear to still have rail service to Wilmington.
I think this is referenced in the state study of eastern rail options that can be found off of the state's bytrain.org web site."
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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notelvis,I origonally placed this in the "Best Train..." posting so when I saw this I placed it here.
I understand that NCDOT takes care of the trains running through the Great Tar Heel State, but I still see that those trains run through the state run on a limited basis in order to get people to ride trains from city to city they want the trains that run better to run closer to their schedules not having to schedule around the railroads. Not only would a commuter have to worry about the train being held up states away but also having guaranteed seat. I think NC should work on the light rail between The Piedmont the Triangle and Charlotte. Could Tar Heelers really give up their Cars?????
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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You can see the bridge on Google Earth. It's a swing span and if the photo is reasonably recent, it's all still there. Both approaches are overgrown and the tracks seem to be gone.
-------------------- Kiernan Posts: 155 | From: Santa Fe, New Mexico | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tanner929: Could Tar Heelers really give up their Cars?????
Hi Tanner,
I think so.......given sufficient mass transit alternatives. Progress has been painfully slow but we have high hopes pinned on the Charlotte Lightrail.
Actual commuter rail might first come to the Raleigh/Durham area and the Triangle Transportaion Authority has a plan for Regional Rail on it's drawing boards. The possibility of federal funding is currently remote though as the rules to tap into such funds have changed since TTA began their planning.
I think rail has a shot in the Triangle Area because of growing congestion and the fact that a growing percentage of the population there has actually relocated from areas where the public is accustomed to having rail service as part of the transit fabric. One Raleigh suburb (and Amtrak stop), Cary, has jokingly been called an acronym standing for 'Containment Area for Relocated Yankees'........all in fun though.
I enjoy your posts because they cause me to try and think about things from a different perspective. Now I'm going over to Google Earth and have a look at the Castle Hayne drawbridge! Thanks Kiernan!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Thanks for the bridge information. The information I have is from the various reports in www.bytrain.org There is a report of Feb 2004 by HDR Engineering titled "Restoration of the Wallace to Castle Hayne Rail Corridor and Associated Port/Rail Improvements" In the appendices they have the Wallace to Castle Hayne track charts and the estimate that is the source of the $50 million I quoted. I beleve from what I have read that the track has been removed, but was not sure about the bridge. Maybe since NC DOT now owns the line everything that is there will stay in place.
Since the drawbridge was a swing span, it still may be that the center span is in place, just rotated to the open position.
Wonder why this location needs a drawbridge in the first place.
My own opinion is that the estimate may be low.
The CSX letter on the end has a very peculiar statement to the effect that reopening this line as a through route may result in the need for additional work in other locations.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Since the drawbridge was a swing span, it still may be that the center span is in place, just rotated to the open position.
This appears to be the situation looking at the Google Earth photo.
However, I also have found two Amtrak locomotives and two superliner cars pictured in the yard in Jeffersonville, IN......the consist of the short-lived Kentucky Cardinal......and that train expired three or four years ago......and the superliners had been pulled a year before that.
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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The CSX letter on the end has a very peculiar statement to the effect that reopening this line as a through route may result in the need for additional work in other locations.
If the route via Wallace-CSX-Goldsobo-NS is chosen, it will require about 50 miles on a line with CSX freights that is currently restricted to 40mph. I am sure the state will want to run faster than that and CSX will require track work to increase speeds.
If the trains run in daytime, this may interfere with the CSX locals that operate then. If so, CSX may need to have the sidings on this line upgraded / lengthened. This is no different than the work done on the NCRR for the NS from Selma to Raleigh and probably on the Selma to Goldsoboro portion as well.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Palmland, the wording I found peculiar was "in other locations" which I construed to mean other than Contenega to Goldsboro to Wilmington. This is what does not make sense. It is saying if this line goes back in service, then they will have to add some undefined additional facilities to other lines elsewhere. The need for someplace north of Wallace / south of Castle Hayne to stash the local or cars that would otherwise simply be left on the main is understandable.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Palmland, the wording I found peculiar was "in other locations" which I construed to mean other than Contenega to Goldsboro to Wilmington. This is what does not make sense. It is saying if this line goes back in service, then they will have to add some undefined additional facilities to other lines elsewhere. The need for someplace north of Wallace / south of Castle Hayne to stash the local or cars that would otherwise simply be left on the main is understandable.
George
I can't imagine just what other work CSX has in mind but such is the landscape of bringing passenger rail back to the Carolinas.
Take the Asheville service issue......Norfolk Southern cited 'lack of traffic' (just one local freight and a couple of unit coal trains) in it's decision to embargo the Saluda Mountain line and not even a year later explained that a passenger train could not realistically be added up Old Fort Mountain because of all the additional freight traffic on that line as a result of.......yep.....closing the Saluda route.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I was in Wilmington last summer the Best Western I stayed at is at the end of the old site railyards of the Atlantic Coast Railway. Some of the buildings have been turned to convention meeting rooms and one is now a Railroad Museum. Seems when the Atlantic Coast moved its corporate offices from Wilmington to Jacksonville FL it was the final nail in Wilmingtons downfall, fortunatly the city has comeback but it took some time, its a lovely city worth a trip. Alas the nearest Rail stop I believe would be Wilson.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Sorry to join the discussions and then disappear, but I've been out with a bad back.
The Google Earth view of the Castle Hayne drawbridge was very interesting, as is Google Earth every time I use it. The 21-page Southeastern North Carolina Passenger Rail Study at bytrain.org says that either of the two Wilmington options through Castle Hayne would require that "six bridges (including a moveable bridge over the Northeast Cape Fear River)[the Castle Hayne bridge] would need to be replaced or substantially rebuilt."
The state's rail website also says all the plans for Asheville service, which would be along Norfolk Southern to Salisbury, where it would connect to the Carolinian and Piedmont, have been postponed for the reasons notelvis described. But that was in 2002, and I wonder if any progress has been made since.
My first job was with the Asheville Citizen-Times from 1973-76 during the period the Southern Railway was still outside Amtrak and operating its own passenger service. That included not only the Southern Crescent but the Asheville Special, a Salisbury-Asheville train that operated, if I remember correctly, three days a week. Included in the consist was a dome coach, which is perfect for a route including so much mountain scenery.
I always regretted not taking the time to ride that train, and to this day I have never ridden in a dome.
Posts: 48 | From: San Jose, Calif. | Registered: Sep 2006
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So far as I know, there has been no change since 2002 on the Salisbury to Asheville service.
Didn't Frank Clodfelter work for the Asheville Citizen-Times after his Southern Railway days? If so, in the old files there should be some trememdous information on Saluda and western NC railroading in general.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Doodlebug - Find a dome and ride it.....even if it means a trip to Canada. The Grand Canyon Scenic in Arizona runs a dome if you need something closer to San Jose. My first dome ride was aboard Southern Railway #4 in the early 1970's and I have been hooked since.
The only 'progress' towards Asheville passenger service since 2002 has been the renovation of the former Southern Railway stations in Morganton, Marion, and Old Fort in anticipation of this 'future' service. It has been studied and talked about since 1994, thus my earlier comment to Tanner in another thread that I hope to live long enough to buy a ticket to Asheville on a passenger train someday.
George - Frank Clodfelter was a true renaissance man and is a legend among rail enthusiasts in these parts. His photography was phenomenal...as supurb as Howard Fogg's paintings...and his writing was pretty good too. He went to work for the Southern Railway in 1931 at age 20. His dad was the General Foreman for Car Repair at the Asheville Roundhouse.
At one point Clodfelter left the railroad (perhaps during a period of low traffic and massive furloughs) and spent (just) three years as Chief Photographer at the Asheville Citizen. Taking photographs of things other than railroad subjects soon bored him though and he went back to railroading. He boomered around a bit during the waning days of steam but I believe he was back at Southern in time to run the final steam passenger trains on Old Fort Mountain in the early 1950's. He remained a railroad engineer until he retired in the 1970's. Throughout his career he was taking railroad photographs and beginning to write about his adventures.
He is also noted, as senior man on the division, for having been at the throttle on the last Carolina Special into Asheville in December 1968 and the very last Asheville-Salisbury passenger trains 4 and 3 in August 1975. The accepted legend is that Southern Railway president Graham Claytor OK'd using two of the green and gold E-8's from the Southern Crescent pool on the last 'Asheville Special' (rather than the normal black FP-7) at Clodfelter's request.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: [QUOTE]Originally posted by George Harris: [qb] Palmland, the wording I found peculiar was "in other locations" which I construed to mean other than Contenega to Goldsboro to Wilmington. This is what does not make sense. It is saying if this line goes back in service, then they will have to add some undefined additional facilities to other lines elsewhere. The need for someplace north of Wallace / south of Castle Hayne to stash the local or cars that would otherwise simply be left on the main is understandable.
George
I can't imagine just what other work CSX has in mind but such is the landscape of bringing passenger rail back to the Carolinas.
Sorry for the confusing wording. My point was that CSX -and I'm sure the state - would want to fix up the portion of the line now used for CSX freights that would carry passenger. Even CSX is not devious enough to require some line not connected to the service to be upgraded.
Heaading out on Wednesday for our trip to Vancouver via the EB and Cascade. It'll be good to be riding the rails again.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Thanks, David for the information on Clodfelter. I had seen his writing and photography in Trains. His writing and pictures are actually what started my particular facination with North Carolina Appalachian area railroading as opposed to simply Southern mountain and hill country railroading in general.
One of my major regrets, and I had many reasons for it at the time, none of which seems so great now, is not riding the loop Knoxville to Asheville to Spartanburg to Atlanta and back up to Knoxville in 1965 when I was in Knoxville.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: It has been studied and talked about since 1994, thus my earlier comment that I hope to live long enough to buy a ticket to Asheville on a passenger train someday.
Asheville-Salisbury passenger trains 4 and 3 last ran in August 1975. The accepted legend is that Southern Railway president Graham Claytor OK'd using two of the green and gold E-8's from the Southern Crescent pool on the last 'Asheville Special' (rather than the normal black FP-7) at Clodfelter's request.
Two additions to these thoughts which I feel compelled to make after rereading what I have written;
First - While one can never tell, I don't plan on leaving anytime soon! If I live to the age that my father and grandfather did, I should be good for another 30 years or so. Asheville passenger service just may take that long though.
Second - I refer to trains 4 and 3. That's because number 4 was the morning departure eastbound from Asheville. It's the one you rode to SEE the mountains. Number 3 was the westbound return from Salisbury and did not arrive until 10:40pm. The mountain crossing was in the dark year-round on that schedule.
Finally, there was a copy of the letter Clodfelter wrote to Graham Claytor just prior to the discontinuance of trans 4 and 3 in 1975 published in the Asheville Citizen (I believe). That was more than just legend.
One other note reported by ACT, As the large contingent of reporters stepped off the last #4 in Old Fort, a local citizen saw the hoopla and asked whether the governor was on that train. One of the reporters answered "No. A passenger train just stopped here. From now on that will be bigger news than the governor."
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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The E's probably made sense on Southern's Washington to Atlanta main and also on the Alabama Great Southern line Chattanooga to New Orleans, as on these lines alone you had lengthy segments where plus 70 mph speeds were possible. For most of Southern's territory, due to either curves, lack fo signals, track conditions, or all of the above, passenger train speeds seldom exceeded 60 mph, and in a lot of cases did not get close ot that high. For these lines the FP's made more sense, particularly in the mountain territory where the lugging abililty you got with all axles powered could be quite important.
Another thought: I have regularly followed NCTDOT's www.bytrain.org site for the last couple of years, and it seems that the improvements being planned on the Norht Carolina Railroad are moving at a slower pace than planned, to the point that some that were, according to 2004 information, to happen in 2005 have not happened yet. Are they having money problems, or what goes on here? Of particular concern to me is the delay in restoration of the second track segments between Greensboro and Salisbury. In additon the restoration of the second main on the two single track segments south of Salisbury seems to have even dissapeared from their planning about a year ago. I would question the willingness of NS to go along with additional trains Raleigh to Charlotte without the second track throughout.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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You are correct in that the E's did not make sense for the mountain regions. Their use on the last numbers 3 and 4 was strictly ceremonial. The E's wore the traditional SR green and gold, the FP's were, at that time, freight black.
Getting money to the right place at the right time has been an issue in North Caroilina but we're not talking critical shortfall.....just various delays. I imagine that an additional Raleigh-Charlotte train is more likely than service to Asheville or Wilmington BECAUSE the track there is owned by the state of North Carolina and leased to NS....in other words, the NCDOT desire for passenger rail has more leverage in the 'Piedmont Crescent' from Charlotte to Raleigh via Greensboro.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Have an equintence who is training as a volunteer for the NCDOT trains, does this include the (Bus) Express to Mt Airy (I've visited "Mayberry" very beautiful area) I was told there seems to be a problem with pilfering of the free snacks on the NC Trains so they are trying to put in "canteens," would that be vending machines? I can't see Amtrak or train options as business commuting options when I see the only viable train arriving in Charlotte at 10:15 a.m and other trains arriving late in the night sorry but all I see in the Piedmont is more road building.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Tanner929: Have an equintence who is training as a volunteer for the NCDOT trains, does this include the (Bus) Express to Mt Airy (I've visited "Mayberry" very beautiful area) I was told there seems to be a problem with pilfering of the free snacks on the NC Trains so they are trying to put in "canteens," would that be vending machines? I can't see Amtrak or train options as business commuting options when I see the only viable train arriving in Charlotte at 10:15 a.m and other trains arriving late in the night sorry but all I see in the Piedmont is more road building.
Hi Tanner,
Early on food service on the Piedmont was provided by an outside vendor (I was an NCDOT Train Host at that time but have since moved too far from Raleigh to continue) and it was actually a higher quality of food than you will find elsewhere on the system now.....excepting perhaps the Empire Builder. The 'complimentary snack' on the honor system (or dishonor system) has so far been cheaper than trying to secure another caterer but I wish they would be able to get live people and some sort of hot fod service back. Much like the Subway bit along the Hudson River, sub-contracting on-board food service does not seem to work.....at least not so far.
And no.....Amtrak service in North Carolina is not after the 9-5 Monday-Friday commuter crowd. It's more about the leisure traveler or the gotta go to such and such every now and then. A third daily CLT-RGH round-trip makes the service more appealing but will still not be a part of anyone's daily commute......unless they are commuting to Greensboro or High Point!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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It seems that there is always the "commuter" thought that comes up when talking about trains. Long distance rail service, even medium distance is not about daily "commuting" and never has been. In fact, the initial and ongoing concept is that Amtrak would specifically exclude commuter service. In those areas that they do operate commuter service, they do so for some local authority, usually under the name of that authority.
The travel time alone makes long distance daily commuting impractical. There are those "road warriors" that make incredibly long daily commutes for various reasons, but 90% or more of daily commuting is usually within a range that permits one hour or less travel time. The North Carolina trains do make sense for same day business travel, although I have no idea what percentage of passengers actually use it for that purpose.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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North Carolina has done quite a bit to speed up the service they have. Between Greensboro and Raleigh, the current train times vary between 1h 30m and 1h 42m, for a distance of 84 miles. According to the 1952 Official Guide, when the Southern had three trains in each direction, the times varied from 2h 05m up to 2h 50m, so the NCDOT work had cut over 1/2 hour out of the run time. Now, these slower Southern trains had quite a few more stops, up to 9 regular stops plus 4 flag stops for the slowest trains, but the fastest at 2h 05m only stopped twice, plus one flag stop. The current North Carolina trains make 3 stops. Further, these trains were really not scheduled for ease of travel between points in North Carolina, but were more for the long distance passenger. Only the Carolina Special - Piedmont combination gave you a reasonable day time train across the state, and it required a change at Greensboro and was not exactly fast.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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