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Anticipating retirement at the end of this year, I'm thinking, at some point, of utilizing a Amtrak North American Rail Pass. I'm looking to travel some loops, either on the SW Chief and/or Zephyr, the Empire Builder, and VIA. I'm not sure what I want to do..I'll take any suggestions. I think the Rail Pass is still a pretty good deal...around $700 for a month of travel, off season. One of my plans is to photograph as many Amtrak and VIA stations as possible, especially the smaller ones along various train routes. I am especially interested in the Amtrak stations along the Empire Builder route.
With regard to completing any possible loops..what is the current status with crossing the US-Canadian border from Michigan into Ontario? I see the VIA has a run from Toronto to Sarnia, Ont. and from Toronto to Windsor. Are there shuttle buses from either Detroit to Windsor or Sarnia to Port Huron to link up with Amtrak? Do you think that there eventually might be rail connections, rather than bus connections, between these cities?
I guess the old Great Northern or St.P and M&M railroad had linkages to Canada via St Paul to Winnipeg. I think there was a link from Winnipeg to St Paul, Minn. and maybe from Crookston, Minn to Winnipeg ..not sure if these were passenger trains links or just frieght. It sure would be nice if there was a link between the Empire Builder, in North Dakota, and Winnipeg. Are there any sort of bus connectons?
I long for the old days when most east-west trains ran twice a day in each direction. It would make getting off the train and spending a night in a local town much more convenient.
Anyway, any help you could give me with regard to linking up Amtrak with the VIA would be appreciated. If anyone has used the North American Rail Pass..I would be interested in your intinerary. Thanks.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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Richard I can't tell you about train connections but I can tell you if you cross the border you will need a passport. I would suggestyou get started working on one soon as they take a lot of time these days so I am told. Also we were in Sarnia but it was on a driving trip. They have a wonderful science museum there and we took a very interesting tour in the nickel mine. I don't know if it is still open for tourists but you could find out,
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Minneapolis, St Paul & Sault Saint Marie vice St.P and M&M
Also known as the Soo Line and today is operationally integrated (but still a separate corporate entity) with its owner Canadian Pacific.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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There is a regular bus service between Detroit and Windsor, but other than that I know very little about it. I think you can find schedules and stopping points on both sides if you do a search and find their web site.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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There are no shuttles between the train stations in Detroit and Windsor or Port Huron and Sarnia. The bus that goes across the border at Detroit serves neither the Amtrak or VIA stations so you would have to take three different buses to get from one station to the other. A taxi would be the only way to make a direct transfer, but that could be expensive. There used to be a through train between Chicago and Toronto by way of Port Huron but that was killed two years ago.
Rail connections exist today between Amtrak and VIA trains at Vancouver, Montreal, and Toronto via Niagara Falls. And yes, in the old days there were many cross border trains.
Oh, and to Train Lady: The science museum and nickel mines are in Sudbury, not Sarnia, very far from any Amtrak station.
-------------------- Any time could be train time! Posts: 149 | From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Ken V: The bus that goes across the border at Detroit serves neither the Amtrak or VIA stations so you would have to take three different buses to get from one station to the other. A taxi would be the only way to make a direct transfer, but that could be expensive.
Thanks. I looked this up a couple of years ago for a friend, but neither of us knew enough about the geography and conditions in either Detroit or Windsor to make any sense out of it, so it became a trip between airports instead. At the time, found nothing about any public transport at Port Huron.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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In regards to connecting from the Empire Builder to Winnepeg, there used to be a bus (not associated with Amtrak) that operated once a day between Grand Forks ND and Winnepeg. It ran North in the morning ie 10:00 and south in evening ie 4:00 pm. It is about 4 hours in length. The last I did this was 2-3 years ago, not sure of current status.
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Ken V: The bus that goes across the border at Detroit serves neither the Amtrak or VIA stations so you would have to take three different buses to get from one station to the other. A taxi would be the only way to make a direct transfer, but that could be expensive.
Thanks. I looked this up a couple of years ago for a friend, but neither of us knew enough about the geography and conditions in either Detroit or Windsor to make any sense out of it, so it became a trip between airports instead. At the time, found nothing about any public transport at Port Huron.
I've been to Port Huron, MI several times as a staff member of a competitive drum and bugle corps. While I could be mistaken, the only public transport I can recall there involved putting my left foot out in front of my body, placing it on the ground, doing the same with my right foot, and repeating this process until I reached my destination.
On one visit to Port Huron I had an entire afternoon off so I walked about three miles each direction over to the Amtrak station. Got to see the International (which still ran at that time) pull out of the tunnel with a VIA F40 and arrive from Toronto while I was there.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Great Northern used to run a passenger train from St. Paul to Winnipeg (The Winnipeg Limited) that I rode in about 1966 or 67. The current Grand Forks Amtrak station is a nice new building in a remote location outside of town (prior to Amtrak building that new station, the Empire Builder had to back into Grand Forks). You would need to get into town to catch a bus.
Jefferson Bus service connects Winnipeg to Grand Forks: 5:15pm to 8:25pm northbound; 7:45am to 11:10am southbound. They have very nice buses.
There is also a bus route north from Great Falls, Montana that must intersect with Amtrak somewhere. Possibly Powder River Lines.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by MDRR: In regards to connecting from the Empire Builder to Winnepeg, there used to be a bus (not associated with Amtrak) that operated once a day between Grand Forks ND and Winnepeg. It ran North in the morning ie 10:00 and south in evening ie 4:00 pm. It is about 4 hours in length. The last I did this was 2-3 years ago, not sure of current status.
Jefferson Lines Bus leaves GF for Wpg at 5:15pm arriving at 8:25pm. From Wpg to GF leaves at 7:45am and arrives at 11:10am. Fare is about $40 before taxes. (I think that is Canadian dollars since it is from the Canadian Greyhound site).
Posts: 28 | From: Alexandria VA 22315 | Registered: Apr 2001
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Ken, you are right. Having been to both places I simply got my s places mixed up/ We have had 10 wonderful trips across Canada so I sometimes forget which museums etc are where.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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I've used the North America Rail pass every year since its introduction. I live in Toronto and I will either connect to Amtrak out of Vancouver to Seattle, or through Buffalo taking the General Brock to Niagara Falls and then a taxi to Buffalo's Depew station. Since so many U.S./Canada trains have been discontinued, making an international rail connection is quite inconvenient. This coming December I will take the w/b Canadian to Vancouver then the Cascade to Seattle connecting the next day with #11 to Los Angeles. I will spend about a week in California and Nevada before boarding the SW Chief to Chicago where I will connect with the Lake Shore Ltd. to Buffalo. From Buffalo I will take a taxi across the border to Niagara Falls Ont. where on a Saturday or Sunday only I can connect with Via's General Brock to Toronto. The price of the pass is quite reasonable, however, the sleeping car surcharges make the trip fairly expensive.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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quote:Originally posted by train lady: Richard I can't tell you about train connections but I can tell you if you cross the border you will need a passport............
You DO NOT need a passport to cross the US-Canada border at a land crossing until December 31, 2007 (Air and Sea crossings beginning Dec. 31, 2006) Until then a Passport is the best document but a Birth Certificate and Drivers License (with Photo) will do just fine. I crossed by rail a couple of weeks ago and had no problems at all.
Posts: 239 | Registered: Feb 2004
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Yukon, VIA also offers a "Take a Campanion for Free" program all year around if you are over 60.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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my friends son and his wife went to Canada last year and they were told they needed to have a passport. So it would seem some places do and others don't.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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If you have a passport, take it, it is simpler. That way you have all you need to prove both that you belong to the document and your citizenship in one place. They are not cheap, but they are also good for 10 years, so if you do not have one and plan any international travel of any kind, you might as well get one rather than deal with jumpoing through the hoops that the alternate paths require.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I'm starting to think it might be easier just to fly from Chicago or Detroit to Toronto, rather than trying to figure out bus/taxi connections.
MDDR/TwinStar: That bus connection between Grand Forks, ND, and Winnepeg sounds interesting. I will have to look into that possibility. I also thought of renting a car, somewhere along the EB route in North Dakota, but I'm not sure which, if any, towns might have a car rental outlet. There also might be a problem in crossing the border and dropping off the car in Winnepeg..and no doubt a significant drop-off charge.
CN 6060/Train Lady/George: Yes, I am aware you will need a passport after 12/31/07. I wanted to get one, however, before going up to take the Whistler Mountaineer,this past summer, as I expect to be in Canada a few more times during the next 10 years. We have a special passport office, here in San Jose, attached to one of our main post offices. When I got there the passort office was quite crowded. After nearly a 2 hr wait, I was able to get my photo taken and a form filled out.I was ready to leave when they told me a birth certificate copy would not be accepted..I needed to get a confirmed birth certificate copy from the county of my birth. They gave me a list of web sites. I finally figured out how to download the application form on one of the sites, filled it in, payed them $20, and sent it in to the county office. After receiving the certified birth certificate copy, I phoned the passport office and set up an appointment for the return..hoping to save a little time. Nobody answered the phone, but I got an answering machine saying to leave my phone number and they would call back. Of course, they never called me back.
I decided to just go back to the passport office..waited around 1 hr, and finally got my passport application processed. I payed them around $90 (it used to be around $60). Finally, I received my passport in the mail, about 6 weeks later. What a hassle!
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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Originally posted by Yukon11: "One of my plans is to photograph as many Amtrak and VIA stations as possible, especially the smaller ones along various train routes. I am especially interested in the Amtrak stations along the Empire Builder route."
quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: Originally posted by Yukon11: "One of my plans is to photograph as many Amtrak and VIA stations as possible, especially the smaller ones along various train routes. I am especially interested in the Amtrak stations along the Empire Builder route."
Just pick a station and start your trip in either direction.
******************** Thanks, TwinStar. I remember running across the website, a while back, but I could not remember the web address. Thanks for posting.
The pictures of the Amtrak stations in Northern Montana brought back a lot of memories. I used to live in Browning, Mt. I can remember going over to the Browning station, one winter day at about 20 below, to pick up a freight package from Healthkit, Benton Harbor, Michigan. I spent many a cold and lonely winter night putting together a Heathkit stereo.
I can remember the stations in Browning, Cutbank, Shelby, and Havre. Two summers ago, I took the EB, out of Portland, to Whitefish, Mt. I really liked the Whitefish station...especially the railroad museum inside.
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: CN 6060/Train Lady/George: Yes, I am aware you will need a passport after 12/31/07. I wanted to get one, however, before going up to take the Whistler Mountaineer,this past summer, as I expect to be in Canada a few more times during the next 10 years. We have a special passport office, here in San Jose, attached to one of our main post offices. When I got there the passort office was quite crowded. After nearly a 2 hr wait, I was able to get my photo taken and a form filled out.I was ready to leave when they told me a birth certificate copy would not be accepted..I needed to get a confirmed birth certificate copy from the county of my birth. They gave me a list of web sites. I finally figured out how to download the application form on one of the sites, filled it in, payed them $20, and sent it in to the county office. After receiving the certified birth certificate copy, I phoned the passport office and set up an appointment for the return..hoping to save a little time. Nobody answered the phone, but I got an answering machine saying to leave my phone number and they would call back. Of course, they never called me back.
I decided to just go back to the passport office..waited around 1 hr, and finally got my passport application processed. I payed them around $90 (it used to be around $60). Finally, I received my passport in the mail, about 6 weeks later. What a hassle!
Ah, the joys of dealing with the big lie. ("Hi, we are from the government and we are here to help you.")
They told you to go to the COUNTY for a certified copy of your birth certificate? Don't know about California, but almost everywhere else these are kept on a state level. However, it is quite common to get erroneous advice from government offices, and you will find they can never be held responsible for telling you wrong. Maybe I am a little burned with the govm't right now because I ended up spending nearly two hours yesterday to get my absentee ballot off. Getting it was easy, because for that I dealt with my home county in Mississippi, and generally they are fairly efficient. Called them up gave them our rather strangely set up foreign address, and it arrived in the mail. Went online to find out about the local races that get no national coverage.
Now, since there is the general pretense in this world that Taiwan does not exist as a country even though it has a democratically elected government and 23 million people, because to do so would offend the biggest dictatorship in the world, there is no US embassy or consulate here. What we have as a substitue is called the American Institute in Taiwan and flies no flag but otherwise functions as an embassy. To get the ballot sent off, there we must go, as there are two forms for each of us that must be notarized by a US notary. The saga of slowness we encountered when trying to get it properly done and sent off I will not detail, but it started with arriving at 8:30 am, (hours for "American Citizen Services" are 8:00 to 3:30, soon to be reduced to 8:30-11:30 and 1:30 to 3:00) no one was in line and only a few people waiting, but first off we get "sorry, our voting officer is not here yet." After he arrives we then start the several steps in the process, with inexplicable waits between each step.
At least they do not charge for the required notarizations on voting materials - if you need a US notary for anything else it costs US$50 or the "equivalent" in local currency. I put equivalent in quotes because the conversion rate is usually 5 to 10% worse than the bank rate.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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If you really believe that the working masses are ruling in China, I would suggest you take a closer look at the reality. The top level CCP party members rule, and they alone.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote: They told you to go to the COUNTY for a certified copy of your birth certificate? Don't know about California, but almost everywhere else these are kept on a state level.
No, actually, many, if not most, birth certificates are obtained through city and county offices of vital statistics.
Posts: 255 | Registered: Nov 2001
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For the places that I have had to deal with this stuff on, which are Tennessee, Virginia, and Florida, it has been state level office of vital statistics. Just assumed that was the norm country wide. By the way, for the English guys I work with, it is one location, countrywide. Just looked and found this,
No surprise, the info there is a little different than on the federal site.
California Department of Health Services Office of Vital Records - M.S. 5103 P.O. Box 997410 Sacramento, CA 95899-7410
They are less user-friendly than any state I have ever dealt with. Two hints:
"We do not have a public counter where customers can come into our office. Requests can only be submitted through the mail, and questions can only be answered by calling our Customer Service Unit."
and
"Note: If you mail your request to us using a priority mail courier, the "rush" service that you pay for applies only to the mail delivery process. It does not expedite our internal processing time."
I finally found that their "internal processing time" is about four weeks.
Then, when you get to the bottom of the page it suggests that you go to the county, saying, "most of the county offices can provide a faster processing time than our office (often within one week). Also, many of the county offices will accept requests (using a credit card) by phone, fax, or on-line."
"For Birth, Death, and Public Marriage Certificates: Contact the County Recorder's Office in the county where the event took place.
"Note: If your record was amended before 1992 (e.g., due to an adoption, court order name change, paternity action, etc.), we can't guarantee that the county office will have your record. If the county office doesn't have your record, you can ask them to request a copy from our office so they can update their file, or you can submit your request to our (state) office for processing. If your record was amended in 1992 or later, the county office should already have a copy of your amended record."
****
Am I ever glad I don't have to deal with the state of California. Think I'll try to keep it that way.
By contrast, when I went to the site for my own state of birth, Tennessee, they say the normal turnaround time is two weeks. They also serve walk-ins. To help you find the place, in addition to the address, at the bottom of the page they have a small map and a picture of the front of the office.
They also offer an expedited service with a one day turnaround for an extra fee, and a statement that for walk-ins, "Most requests will be handled while you wait; other services will be handled by 3:00 P.M. if you are in the office before 10:30 A.M." And, the walk-in is without the extra fee.
Forms are available online.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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One other thought: Some states have both a long form and a short form. You should always for children get the long form, because a lot of the short forms do not list the parents' names. I do not know whether you actually need it for a passport, but if you are getting a visa for a place that involves family memebers, that is necessary to get the child put on the same visa status as the parents. There are also recent changes for children traveling outside the country with only one parent. Those I don't exactly recall, but they are related to several well publicised and a lot more not publicised cases where one parent took the child to another country to avoid custody decisions by US courts.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Regarding the remarks about a few people controlling China, a Communist democracy is of course different from our Western democracy. The working people control the Party, and higher party officials make decisions for the people. The Xinhua site explains this in detail. My point was that corruption and abuse of power are not a result of Communist ideology or of a socialist form of government.
Posts: 144 | Registered: Sep 2005
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You know, 4020, I have been alive for slightly over 40 years now, and in my living memory I can recall no less than five major shifts of power at the highest level of the U.S. government, all arising from the will of the people. Can you point out ONE time--even ONE--when the "will of the people" resulted in a corresponding shift of power at the highest levels in China under communism since 1949?
-------------------- --------Eric H. Bowen
Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past! Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
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4020North, have you ever heard the term propoganda? If you read Xinhua, that is what you are getting.
"Communist democracy" is an oxymoron, pure and simple.
I would suggest an uncontrolled visit. It is even possible, to a certain extent. That way you don't have to believe me. Don't believe all you are told, either. Keep your eyes, ears, and above all, your brain, open.
I have just lived in Asia for the last 16 years, mostly in Taiwan and two years in Hong Kong, including overlapping the time of the handover, so I might accidentially know what I am talking about. I will admit a very limited experience with the mainland. I have only spent a week in China, and rode the train back from Beijing to Shenzhen. This was 1996, and you would still see people washing their clothes in the ponds in the countryside, and at night no electricity in a lot of the villages. Beijing and Shanghai cities, and Guangdong province are fairly well modernized. A lot of the rest is not. In fact northern China in the countryside you see dirt roads, mules and wagons, and other indications that modernization has not hit the countryside. The contrast with Taiwan, which by the way has NEVER been under the control of the Communist government, is all but absolute. You can not get far enough out in the countryside to get beyond electric and telephone service.
Notice also what ehbowen says. Ask about the Great Leap Forward and how many people starved to death. Ask about the tolerance for unregistered churches. Ask about Tienamin Square. In fact, go to Tienamen Square with a group and try to unfold any form of banner for use in a picture of your group, or any other reason for that matter.
Oh, yeah, you mention corruption. See if you can figure out what people go through to get permission to do anything, how many people they have to pay off, how many unofficial "taxes" they have to pay. Internal corruption is almost universal. Of course, you are not going to get honest answers. The penalties for offending the officialdom can be severe.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I really am not sure where all this is coming from. Most large and medium-sized counties and cities have vital statistics offices and provide certified copies of birth and death certificates. Some smaller counties and cities do not, and for these, one must sometimes go to the state. But it is far from true to claim that states handle birth certificates. They do so only when municipalities are too small to handle such.
In Florida, a state that was mentioned in this thread, and where I formerly lived for many years, most birth certificates are locally obtained.
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