posted
Well everyone, I am back from my work on the 06 political campaigns. In order to not upset anyone, I wont say who I worked for, just that I went back to my home state of Montana.....
Hey I was wondering. In pre-Amtrak days, railroad employees and their families could ride their passenger trains for free or at reduced prices. for example, my grandfather worked for the northern pacific in MT. he, my grandma, and my mom would take trips on the train to North Dakota and Chicago. They just rode coach, and it was free, except from Minneapolis-Chicago, which was half price.
I was wondering if railroad employees today get any kind of discounts on Amtrak? I know my grandpa had some sort of Amtrak card before he died, but he never used it.
Posts: 416 | From: St. Albans, Vermont | Registered: Feb 2003
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posted
Interesting question, Jim. I'm sure someone here will have the answer. I'm sure they have negotiated some sort of a pass rider deal as part of their various contracts.
As you probably know, virtually all airline employees and their families enjoy free or reduced travel on a space-available basis. That's a perk that is jealously guarded and highly valued. It's sometimes tough these days with full aircraft but can be wonderful when the "Non-Rev Gods" smile on you!
Frank in Sunny SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Likely such has changed, but when I was with the MILW, employees with service prior to A-Day could have twelve trips per year on the "home road", with the traditional half rate away from "home". Hires after A-Day day paid half, but I believe that has changed since I left the MIL during December 1981.
Now regarding airline employees, Mr. Frank. I'll bet the increased load factors owing return of pre-9/11 boardings as well as to capacity reductions (e.g. 757 replaced by an A-320) are making the skies less than sunny regarding access to that perk.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
First let's talk about freight railroad employees. When I hired out with ATSF in Aug 1978, free coach travel was still available on Amtrak trains running over the employee's "home road". When one traveled over a different railroad, the coach fare was discounted 50%. By the time I went to the SP in Nov 1981, pass privileges were no longer available to any new-hire freight road employees. Freight road employees who had pass privileges prior to the cutoff date still have them, but I don't know if the off-home-road discount is still 50%. As to what, if any, sleeper/business class/etc. discounts there were or may still be, I have no idea.
Pass privileges for Amtrak employees/retirees and their family members aren't part of the labor agreements. When I started with Amtrak in 1986, coach travel was free (sleepers discounted) but for reserved trains reservations couldn't be made more than 24 hours in advance of departure of the first leg of one's trip. Under Tom Downs a "Red/White/Blue" system was inaugurated wherein a matrix system projected ridership on each departure date of reserved trains and determined whether one paid 70% of the coach fare with no possibility of refund (Red), 70% with the amount refunded if the train wasn't sold out (White), or Free travel (Blue). The advantage in this system is that the 24-hour advance restriction was abolished and pass riders can now reserve as far ahead as other travelers. For some years after this system began, R/W/B matrix booklets for pass riders were issued every 6 months. The matrix booklet was eventually discontinued, and the information is now obtained by talking to a res agent or ticket agent.
I don't know whether freight road employees who still have pass privileges were included in the R/W/B system or if they are still under the old 24-hour restriction.
Posts: 73 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Oops, another senior moment.....as GBN said, it's "A-day" that makes the difference for freight road employees. According to UP's website, if an eligible freight road employee hired out prior to April 30 1971, home road travel is free, 50% off elsewhere. If hired May 01 1971-April 27 1981, no free travel and the discount is 25%. After April 27 1981 no pass privileges for freight employees whatsoever. More at
Now regarding airline employees, Mr. Frank. I'll bet the increased load factors owing return of pre-9/11 boardings as well as to capacity reductions (e.g. 757 replaced by an A-320) are making the skies less than sunny regarding access to that perk.
I'm one of those people (my brother works for one of the country's biggest domestic/international airlines) and I can tell you that the perk is sunnier than ever. Honestly, I haven't traveled in coach (or even business) in quite awhile...
Posts: 134 | From: New York, New York USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
About a month and a half ago, on the California Zephyr, I shared a table in the dining car with two vacationing freight engineers. One worked for BNSF and the other for the Illinois Central.
Although I don't know if they were traveling at a reduced rate, they were camped out in a deluxe bedroom in the sleeping car -- which means one of two things: either Amtrak is awfully generous with its non-employee discounts, or the freight railroads pay even better than I think.
posted
I recall going to college with a couple of girls (twins) from Hamlet, NC in the early 1980's. Their father, a career Seaboard man going back way before May 1, 1971, and his dependents were entitled to free coach travel (space available - the 24 hour advance only thing) aboard any of the Silver Service trains south of Richmond on what was then SCL territory.
Aside from the fact that the number of eligible freight road pass employees still living is beginning to dwindle....there have been massive freight road mergers. At that time my friends could ride the Cardinal at the the 50% off-road discount. Very soon after that, however, with the coming of CSX, the Cardinal and Silver Service trains were suddenly operating over the same freight road.
I suspect that the pass agreements were never changed to reflect the new mergers but I am not certain of that.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
20th Century. Man, I wish my pass privileges were on your brother's airline! I haven't seen the front cabin domestically in more than two years! And that's traveling with 36 years of seniority. Last summer was especially difficult with most commuters riding the spare jumpseats just to get to work. The automated upgrade system for the most frequent fliers starts gobbling up those F/C seats three days out.
International travel is a different story. Few, if any, automatic upgrades. By carefully picking flights and departure dates we've ridden in back a handful of times. Luckily, Hawai'i counts as "International" on Continental and we are #1 and #2 on the standby list both coming and going on 25 November and 4 December. More than 100 seats available each way and five or less "real" people booked up front.
Frank in Chamber of Commerce Gorgeous SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by sbalax: 20th Century. Man, I wish my pass privileges were on your brother's airline! I haven't seen the front cabin domestically in more than two years! And that's traveling with 36 years of seniority. Last summer was especially difficult with most commuters riding the spare jumpseats just to get to work. The automated upgrade system for the most frequent fliers starts gobbling up those F/C seats three days out.
International travel is a different story. Few, if any, automatic upgrades. By carefully picking flights and departure dates we've ridden in back a handful of times. Luckily, Hawai'i counts as "International" on Continental and we are #1 and #2 on the standby list both coming and going on 25 November and 4 December. More than 100 seats available each way and five or less "real" people booked up front.
Frank in Chamber of Commerce Gorgeous SBA
36 years seniority, and you can't travel up front? Why is it so bad on Continental? I do all of my pass traveling on two routes: JFK-LAX and JFK-SFO, which are three cabin aircraft (there are only two airlines that offer three cabin service domestically in the U.S. on those two routes, so you can narrow it down to one of two airlines that I non-rev on). Maybe that makes it easier. But back in February when JFK was shut down due to a blizzard, I took Amtrak to D.C from NY Penn (took us FIVE hours but I got there) and flew out of Dulles to LAX (two cabin service only) and still sat in 2D.
Hawaii is another story. Those flights are always full and since the HNL base was closed, those SW's who were based there but didn't want to move now commute to LAX and SFO to work, so it's difficult to sit up front on those. My parents get it often but the last time I tried it I got Economy Plus (okay that gives it away), which is still better than regular coach (36 inches pitch versus 31 inches in regular Economy).
Posts: 134 | From: New York, New York USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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I suspect the answer is lots of revenue pax paying full fare to ride upfront because they like the product and a very liberal upgrade policy for Elite travelers. It's all done automatically by the computer starting with Platinum then working down until usually most of the seats are full. The computer also breaks down each Elite level by the type of fare paid!
The load factors have been running in the high 80's most of the year so that further complicates things. Luckily for us, in the "International" markets, there are very few complimentary upgrades. If a revenue pax is sitting in First or Business/First they have paid for the seat or used miles to get the seat or upgrade from a qualifying fare.
BTW, what's an SW? Every airline seems to have its own "lingo". We have a friend who lives in Hawai'i and commutes to SFO to fly Asia trips. He has 40 years with UA and sometimes ends up riding the jumpseat.
Frank in Gorgeous SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: I recall going to college with a couple of girls (twins) from Hamlet, NC in the early 1980's. Their father, a career Seaboard man going back way before May 1, 1971, and his dependents were entitled to free coach travel (space available - the 24 hour advance only thing) aboard any of the Silver Service trains south of Richmond on what was then SCL territory.
Aside from the fact that the number of eligible freight road pass employees still living is beginning to dwindle....there have been massive freight road mergers. At that time my friends could ride the Cardinal at the the 50% off-road discount. Very soon after that, however, with the coming of CSX, the Cardinal and Silver Service trains were suddenly operating over the same freight road.
I suspect that the pass agreements were never changed to reflect the new mergers but I am not certain of that.
David
I think the governing rule is what was the railroad you worked for at the time of Amtrak. Seaboard and ACL had already merged to form SCL so those employees ride free on former SCL Amtrak routes and 50% off elsewhere.
My home road was C&O even though I worked for C&O/B&O as they were considered seperate roads even though operated and were managed as one prior to Amtrak. Later that distinction vanished and B&O's proud name disappeared and we had something called Chessie System. I did not know until retirement a couple years ago that you could make a one time change to select the predecessor road(prior to Amtrak) for your pass priviliges. Living in SC, that was easy and I picked SCL.
While this is great for day trips on the Palmetto, in practice I always make a reservation and pay the regular fare on LD trains where I want to be sure my wife and I have a room.
However, I'm considering a solo trip this winter and may take my chances with a 24 hour advance room reservation - or ride coach, ugh.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I suspect the answer is lots of revenue pax paying full fare to ride upfront because they like the product and a very liberal upgrade policy for Elite travelers. It's all done automatically by the computer starting with Platinum then working down until usually most of the seats are full. The computer also breaks down each Elite level by the type of fare paid!
The load factors have been running in the high 80's most of the year so that further complicates things. Luckily for us, in the "International" markets, there are very few complimentary upgrades. If a revenue pax is sitting in First or Business/First they have paid for the seat or used miles to get the seat or upgrade from a qualifying fare.
BTW, what's an SW? Every airline seems to have its own "lingo". We have a friend who lives in Hawai'i and commutes to SFO to fly Asia trips. He has 40 years with UA and sometimes ends up riding the jumpseat.
Frank in Gorgeous SBA
SW is the abreeviation lingo for Flight Attendant, SW="STEW" aka "Steward" or "Stewardess". Their badges still say SW on them. Upgrades are more restricted and difficult to get to the F-Cabin. Revenue Pax can try to upgrade from Y to J (Economy to Business, sometimes also known as C), but not Y to F. Often Business will be completely full, while I fly in the F-Cabin, which seats 12 and once I was there all by my lonesome with 11 empty seats. Last time there was just me and one revenue pax, and that's it, I was in 1A and he was in 3A and there were ten Empty seats, it's great to say the least, and they know I'm "family" so the service is even better. ON the other hand, last time I did JFK-LAX First was full with only one empty seat, me being in 1C. It's a total numbers game, I check the loads on each flight and pick the times and load factors that give me the optimum chance for premium seating.
Posts: 134 | From: New York, New York USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Ah, yes, that "extra" class that every carrier has called "Friends of the Crew".
I'd never heard of SW. At CO they were Hostesses but became Flight Attendants (F/A) when the first men were hired. My friend in Hawai'i was one of the first males at UA. He was hired as an "Island Boy". Not very politically correct but it worked then.
I'm not sure if we've gotten an answer about current Amtrak employees. I remember meeting a guy on the Crescent whose partner was an employee and he had pass privileges. It was a pretty complicated system, as I recall.
Frank in still gorgeous SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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I'm not sure if we've gotten an answer about current Amtrak employees.
Frank in still gorgeous SBA
The Red/White/Blue system I explained above is the one currently in place for Amtrak employees and retirees.
Posts: 73 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I met an Amtrak ticket agent/baggage handler on a SAN JOAQUIN train who was traveling with his son home to Sacramento. The employee got free travel on Amtrak and so did his early twenties son, who had a photo ID pass that let him travel all over the system I think for free.
Posts: 134 | From: New York, New York USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by sbalax: Thanks, 1702. I guess we got sidetracked here talking about airlines. That covers coach travel, how about riding in the sleepers?
Frank in still sunny SBA
Everyday is a "White Day" for sleeping car travel. One pays 70% of the railfare plus 70% of the accomodation charge, with a refund if sleeper space isn't sold out. The only way the free "Blue Day" coach travel is combinable with sleeper space is by an onboard upgrade.
Posts: 73 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by 20thCenturyLimited: I met an Amtrak ticket agent/baggage handler on a SAN JOAQUIN train who was traveling with his son home to Sacramento. The employee got free travel on Amtrak and so did his early twenties son, who had a photo ID pass that let him travel all over the system I think for free.
IIRC, pass privileges for employees' children end at age 18 unless they are full-time students or otherwise still carried as dependents by the employee. The photo ID pass (a.k.a. "flash pass") may be used in lieu of a ticket on unreserved trains only, otherwise proper tickets are required.
Posts: 73 | Registered: Aug 2006
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