posted
I'll add my two cents to the wish list of unlikely possibilities. I would like to see Auto Train service over the route of the Southwest Chief from Chicago to a terminal somewhere east of Los Angeles.
Posts: 133 | From: Canaan, CT | Registered: Dec 2004
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quote:Originally posted by RussM: I'll add my two cents to the wish list of unlikely possibilities. I would like to see Auto Train service over the route of the Southwest Chief from Chicago to a terminal somewhere east of Los Angeles.
Hmm, maybe that should be train number 66? And called the Will Rogers Express?
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
On 7/6/92, Amtrak issued a press release citing its study of new or reformed routes with "regional balance", seven short haul and 13 long haul:
1.Minn-Des Moines-KC, $0.8m annual operating subsidy 2. extend Mo. Mule from KC to Omaha, $1.0m 3. NY-Allentown-Hbg, $1.1m 4. Chi-Madison, $1.5m 5. Chi-Green Bay, $2.7m
1. extend Sunset to Miami, $1.1m 2. branch of Lake Shore, Clev-Col-Cin, $2.4m 3. triweekly Chi-Oklahoma-Dallas, $3.3m 4. daily Jax-New Orleans, $6.1m 5. daily Chi-Oklahoma-Dallas, $8.4m 6. NY-Charlottesville-Roanoke-Chattanooga-Atl, $9.6m 7. Denver-Dallas, $11.5m 8. Vancouver, BC-LA, $12.8m 9. reroute Pioneer via central Iowa and Wyoming, $14.2m 10. restore Chi-Helena-Sea, $15.4m 11. route one NY-Florida train via Charlotte and Columbia, $20.3m 12. Chi-Atl-Florida, $20.8m 13. Denver-Cheyenne-Billings-Helena-Spokane, $24.4m (figures rounded and in 1992 $)
Ther was no estimate of start-up costs nor revelation of how routes were chosen to study. Of course, this was before track capacity potentially became a major issue.
The conclusion is that some routes would be relatively inexpensive (especialy those with a lot of passenger revenue or useful connections to encourage new business), while others (long runs with little intermedate populations) would be costly.
It's much more than drawing lines on a map. Now if we presumed an amplified budget of x million and we could get more variations studied, we could organize a practical program for Amtrak revision and extension. Better than armchair dreaming! we could get
-------------------- John Pawson Posts: 137 | From: Willow Grove, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
RussM: I like the idea of an auto train from Chicago to Los Angeles. Would it be possible to make tourist stops along the route so passengers can take their car and sightsee then catch another auto train a couple of days later to continue the journey west?
Posts: 498 | From: New Hope, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Another AutoTrain route is a good idea. Chicago is a likely origin, but I think the Denver area is a better destination than LA. I read that for those who leave the highway for the train, the 18 hour duration of the current AutoTrain to FL is about the maximum those highway converts will tolerate.
Certainly Denver has year round attractions with the mountains and skiing and a drive from Chicago to Denver is pretty boring unless you ejoy the wide open spaces as I do.
I had forgotten about Amtrak's '92 analysis that 'delvrails' reminds us of - thanks. Hard to believe my favorite - Chicago to FL ranks near the worst in cost. Amtrak may be heading the right way by exploring a through connection from Chicago-New Orleans on the City of NO to a NOL to Orlando train as reported in Trains magazine this month.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Yes, now I also remember the 1992 analysis. There are some things in there that seem strange, both then and now. Like, why was extending the Sunset to Miami only 1.1 million yet daily Jacksonville to New Orleans over 6 million? Something has got to be wrong there.
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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B) Passengers don't give a *bleep* about steam engines except a niche group of rail fans, and not even many fans of rail travel in general (myself included) care.
C) It would be like suggesting that the airlines go back to props. Steam engines are obsolete.
D) Steam engines on Amtrak trains would be complete folly (to put it politely). Leave the steam excursions to the museums. Amtrak has a job as a real transportation carrier to attend to.
Posts: 134 | From: New York, New York USA | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
I'm going to nominate 5 routes, with a heavy western bias: 1. Seattle to Whistler, BC 2. San Francisco to Los Angeles 3. Denver to Albuquerque 4. service to Yellowstone National Park, perhaps with a seasonal auto train from So. Cal or the Midwest? 5. a high(er) speed route between Chicago and New York that doesn't require an overnight stay onboard the train.
Posts: 78 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
A steamengine on ld trains will have those trains sold out everytime the steamengine on point is announced. End of story.
Posts: 562 | From: Beaumont Texas | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Going back to earlier posts, I like CG96's suggestion for 2 trains, in each direction, on a single day for the major LD trains (Builder, Zephyr, & SW Chief). I would even go for having the 2nd train run 3x/week. It would be much easier to stop at varous interesting points, explore, stay overnight in local lodging, and get back on the train (headed in the same direction) the next day at a reasonable time.
I like Mr. Toy's suggestion concerning the extension of the Zephyr to LA. I believe it is about 12 hrs from Emeryville to LA..If they started in LA at 9PM, it should get into Emeryville, as per the existing schedule, for departure at 9:15 AM. The downside would be that passengers, out of LA, would miss a lot of the scenery up the Calif. coast. However, it would be great for us in the south bay area to be able to board the Zephyr without having to first drive to Martinez or Davis/Sacramento and leave the car. The Capitol Corridor trains to Sacramento for Zephyr connection is another possibility, but it still wouldn't work for passengers living south of San Jose.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
In addition to an auto train from Chi to Denver, the return of the Pioneer and a train from DC to Asheville I'd love to see a train frome DC all the way up the coast of Maine.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Well here go my practical and not so practical ideas, in no certain order.
1) Extend the KC Mule to Omaha
2) High speed Tijuana to Vancouver. Because hey, one may need to buy some Tequila in the morning and get the munchies for some Poutine.
3) Extend the high speed track south of DC to Miami via Charlotte and Atlanta
4) Soo Special: Chicago to Sault Ste Marie via Green Bay then north to a timed platform meeting with Via (Hey, I may be the only one, but I want this train)
5) High speed Milwaukee-Chicago-Indy with spurs to Louisville and Cincy
6) High speed Chicago-St Louis-Omaha-Denver (Figure once you reach Omaha the cost has to go down per mile to reach Denver, why not?)
7) high speed between LA and Las Vegas using maglev. Why maglev? Mostly because the general public would view that as futuristic and hey, these are dreams, not what is really gonna happen.
8) DC to LA w/intermediary stops in Morgantown, Charlestown, Lexington, Louisville, St Louis, KC, Omaha, Denver, SLC, Las Vegas
9) Denver to San Antonio with intermediary stops in Pueblo, Amarillo, Lubbock, Midland/Odessa
10) Reroute the CZ along my new high speed route through Missouri, just because I am a Nebraskan and don't like Iowa. Posts: 88 | From: Omaha, NE | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: I like Mr. Toy's suggestion concerning the extension of the Zephyr to LA. .... However, it would be great for us in the south bay area....
I've often wondered if the LA extension isn't pracitcal, why not terminate the CZ in San Jose instead of Emeryville? That would open up a significantly larger customer base, and may even invite some business travel between Silicon Valley and similar tech industries in Denver. San Jose is also a short bus ride from the Monterey Bay area tourist destinations, for those travelers coming from the heartland.
posted
big merl i also love #4 it would probably go right through my town. merry christmas
-------------------- The Copper Country Limited [Milwaukee Road-Soo Line] and the Peninsula 400 [CNW} still my favorites Posts: 175 | From: FENCE WI USA | Registered: Oct 2000
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posted
I think I would also add in Saint Paul - Omaha, NE, and MSP - Saint Louis, MSP - Duluth, MN/Superior WI, in addition to MSP to KC. Another requirement would be to have at least twice per day service in both directions.
-------------------- "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's life." Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
See Trains magazine, February, 1962 for its orginal article entitiled "Questions and answers about AUTOTRAIN" for a railcar and operating concept that was intended to allow autos to be driven off and on the trains at intermediate points.
The original carrier car design shown in that article allowed autos to be driven laterally on and off the railcars at points en route having special two-level platforms beside the through track. That concept avoided the need to switch the train en route. The current Amtrak carrier car can only be loaded or unloaded at the end of a string of cars.
Perhaps the best idea would be to use the Amtrak standard end loaded cars to begin a long distance service, then to buy some railcars of the lateral loading kind to allow the service to be expanded to key intermedite points.
-------------------- John Pawson Posts: 137 | From: Willow Grove, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Well, you all know what I'm wishing for. More routes through St. Louis. A new and much improved station will open up in July of 2007 and I'm hoping it attracts something new.
I like Big Merl's idea of the LA to DC train going through STL.
I'd also propose a STL to Springfield, MO train and a reroute of the City of New Orleans through STL, but that seems impossible.
Posts: 547 | From: St. Louis, MO, USA | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by UncleBuck44: Well, you all know what I'm wishing for. More routes through St. Louis.
I agree. If I were in charge of Amtrak and had the unlimited budget we all want, I would move most LD trains to St. Louis instead of Chicago. It seems to make more sense geographically. Probably take the unlimited budget though because I have no clue what track and ROW looks like for my maps.
I finally came up with a good name for my DC/LA route. The American Classic. Since it goes through some awesome terrain, it would feature dome cars and multiple tiers of service. My Amtrak would have some private cars for that route that you could book through amtrak.com.
posted
In the 50's there was a lot of cross country traffic through both Chicago and St. Louis. The settling on Chicago is part of Amtrak's put everything in one basket mindset, which was aggravated by the discontinuance of the National Limited at about the time that Conrail's track upgrading was reaching the point that its extremely poor on-time performance was becoming history. I see the sense in leaving a lot of through traffic in Chicago, but a revived National Limited providing east west service through Indinapolis and St. Louis, and how about on to Denver seems like a very good idea. The next point east of Indy could be Cleveland, Pittsburg, or Cincinatti, or all three. Why not? The main thing Amtrak suffers is lack of connectivity. We have talked a lot about a revived Chicago to Florida service, but how about a revived north south line through Cincinatti or Louisville or both to the Gulf Coast and New Orleans - say a new Pan American or a Queen and Crescent (the Southern route), or both on something like 12 hours offset timetables.
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Inescapable are two facts: Chicago has the second largest U.S. metro population at 9 million, while St. Louis is well down the list--18th--with just 2.7 million. So more than three times as many trips (and three times the revenue)can be expected to and from Chicago, and there's the reasonable priority for dollar-short Amtrak.
Looking further down the metro list, number 8 sees only six trains per week. Shouldn't Houston rate higher in priority for service improvement than St Louis? And number 14, too (Phoenix)?
-------------------- John Pawson Posts: 137 | From: Willow Grove, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by delvyrails: Sorry, LA, meant to say that CHI is "only" third.
Naturally, we in and around Philadelphia (fourth) think that a direct connection with number 3 should be a high priority.
I would certainly like to see a renewed 'Broadway Limited'. That would fill the void you mention nicely.
That's the problem with a thread such as this (and I can be critical......I started it!), it's impossible to stop with only five really good ideas!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
While we are dreaming: Phoenix: IF the passenger line west is restored, and it should be, for about the same money it can be made good for 110 mph. Throw in a second and maybe third main the rest of the way into Los Angeles, and you can have about 4 plus trains per day. There was a though, by passenger rail proponests, not the state, to have a multi train service Phoenix to Tuscon to Nogales. Sounds like a good idea and a logical extension off the LA - Phoenix.
Posts: 2810 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
One if my votes goes for a Denver - Dallas/Ft Worth connection.
I spent 6 hours at the Denver Airport Friday. My kids and their mother had confirmed reservations and seat assignments, and we still waited in mul;tiple lines from 11am to 5pm only to be told by bullhorn announcement that "If you live in Denver: Go Home. You won't get out tonight."
It was horrible. My kids 4 and 9 did great thankfully. Frontier cancelled flights for two days and has scheduled about a dozen DEN-DFW flights per day. That's easily 1500 people per day. W/O counting other airlines flights. Far be it from me to determine what makes a route worth it. But we are dreaming here. I'd like to se e an evening departure from Denver, to allow folks from the East bound CZ, presumably arriving on time (remember it's a dream), switch through sleeper and coach cars.
And adding to the collection of TrainKu:
Snowbound, winter nap, Dreaming: a cozy compartment, Riding the Zephyr west
Under it's snow blanket, City silent and still, Trains exchange whistles
Blizzard conditions. Silently, between the snowflakes, Zephyr comes and goes.
Ira
Posts: 300 | From: Denver, CO USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
Agreed, then group. Galveston it is. Light rail access from there to Corpus Christy and Padre Island National Seashore. Oh, wait. The national parks are endangered too. But that's the other thread....
Posts: 300 | From: Denver, CO USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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posted
I would like to have some Amtrak Talgo trains from Sa San Jose down to LA with day and night trains in addition to the Coast Starlight. It would be better than a bus to Stockton train from Stockton to Bakersfield and a bus.
If they could have trains connecting with the SW Cheif etc. These trains would have better On time performance since the Starlight goes from Seattle where as this service is interstate.
They could have the Daylight and Night Owel service using the Talgo sleeping cars and Business Class Seats. You could leave San Jose at 8 PM and arrive by 6:30 or 7 in the morning. And for the day trains have one at 6 Am , 10 Am, 12 PM etc.
You could connect from Oakland on the Capitol Corridor. Or maybe they would do the service from Oakland to San Jose then to LA with stops only at salinas, San Luis Obispo Santa Barbara and LA.
Posts: 259 | Registered: Jan 2005
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But what I really want to know is how you managed to 'doctor' the official Amtrak timetable document! I could have a whole lot of fun if I could create such good looking timetables myself!
David
quote:Originally posted by Liberty Limited: Here's my candidate:
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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It will open the PDF's on the website right up. A number of the fonts won't render properly, leaving you to devise alternates, particularly for the icons (you'll notice all are somewhat different), but once you clean up the document, and set it up right, it's not too hard to add grid spaces, create a new column, and add times.
I'd practically think creation of mock-ups like this could be an effective if not devious tool. Devise a schedule or new frequency, place it prominently, and illustrate to people: "Would you like to see the following service?!? Contact your Rep. amd Senators!"
One thing I really like about this particular one is how many things it accomplishes, creating a new ATL-WAS day train between the night spells, linking Richmond and Raliegh with Atlanta and New Orleans in one ride, creating a rather fluid corridor between Charlotte and Raleigh, and creating same day connections in NOL off the new frequency. One change I'd make in hindsight would be to depart NOL later to better cushion the connection from the Sunset, and to serve Atlanta at a more reasonable time.
-------------------- History of Baltimore and Baltimore Transit - Visit http://www.btco.net ! Posts: 86 | From: Baltimore | Registered: Feb 2006
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posted
Hello, all! After lurking on this list for weeks waiting for my password, I'm finally ready to add my two cents to this thread:
1. Restoration of the Sunset Limited route E. of New Orleans to Orlando, Tampa, and/or Miami, preferably utilizing CSX's "S" line through Ocala.
2. Daily service, New Orleans to Jacksonville.
3. Service from Chicago to Miami along the lines of the old "Royal Palm" or "South Wind."
4. Restoration of an additional Silver Service train NY to Tampa instead of the current setup where 91/92 "detour" into and out of Tampa on their runs in and out of Miami.
5. NY to Portland and Bangor, ME direct using the old "State of Maine" route bypassing Boston.
Well, after all, it is a "dream list."
Ocala Mike
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Love what you did with those timetables. One suggestion, though, with #'s 66 and 67, would be to shorten those "dwell times" in NYP, PHL, and WAS now that you're making true LD trains out of them. Might have to tweak departure/arrival times a bit as you hinted at.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Welcome aboard Ocala Mike. You probably have the nicest Amtrak station with no Amtrak train in the eastern US.
I'm not yet ready to call for a third NYC-FLA train (other routes such as Chicago - Florida need service first) but I cannot understand the absence of a separate Tampa section with through sleeper splitting from the Silver Star in Jacksonville then going via Ocala and Wildwood. A separate day train could do a Tampa - Miami turn and you've got what the current Star attempts to do done better!
Of course my personal 'dream train' would be a reprise of the old 'Skyland Special'. Asheville, NC down the mountain to Spartanburg, SC and a connection to the Silver Star at Columbia. Run a through sleeper and the in-laws near Winter Park would see a lot more of me!
Liberty - I agree, no harm in having your northbound dream train operate 90 - 120 minutes later.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Since we are only DREAMING people, here is my wish list. Some seem to me practical, others not. Don't laugh because I'm not as informed about what rails run through where.
1.Extend 2 San Joaquin train all the way to Las Vegas making a direct route from the Bay Area to Las Vegas via Bakersfield and Barstow. If Amtrak were to reinstate the Desert Wind-the San Joaquin can extend to Barstow and create a Direct San Joaquin connection to the Desert Wind. What if the San Joaquin were to run some Superliner equipment-say one coach and one sleeper as through cars for the Desert Wind?
2. I concur with the idea of an overnight LA to the Bay Area Train. Maybe a train that leaves around 8:30pm or 9pm and connects to the CZ up northThat Coast train can turn around late that evening connecting FROM the WB CZ and get into LA in PLENTY of time to connect to the afternoon Sunset the next day. The Layovers would be a few hours, but it would be pretty much guaranteed both directions if any of those trains run late.
3. Extend the Heartland Flyer-Oklahoma City-Tulsa-St Louis.
4. Restore Service to Phoenix. Maybe LA-Phoenix-Amarillo-Oklahoma City-Tulsa-St Louis-Chicago.
5. I love the idea of El Paso-Albuquerque-Denver! Isn't that the Rio Grande Route? That could rival the CZ and CS for scenery.
6. Dallas to New Orleans. I don't know why-just sounds good.
-------------------- Patrick Posts: 387 | From: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
But why shouldn't the "Boston Crescent" follow the same route as the Crescent? The direct NS route is an hour and a third less in travel time and over a more reliable host's railroad.
If this were done, the southbound would arrive at Atlanta about 9pm instead of 10:18; and the northbound could leave Atlanta at 6:50am instead of 5:30am. These arrival and departure times would be somewhat more salable.
-------------------- John Pawson Posts: 137 | From: Willow Grove, PA | Registered: Dec 2005
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I'm not at all against following the route of the Crescent for the other frequency, in fact that was my original thought. What led me to this routing was:
1) an expectation that Richmond and Raleigh were slightly more robust markets than Charlottesville and Lynchburg, 2) that offering an additional Richmond>South frequency would be desirable. 3) that offering direct service between Richmond/Raliegh to Atlanta/B'ham/New Orleans would open up new markets, 4) that existing trains 66 and 67 already go to Newport News, so maintaining the schedule as far as Richmond (where a shuttle train would then serve NPN) would result in the lowest addition of added revenue hours to the schedule. 5) routing this train would create a nice stream of convenient day frequencies on the Piedmont route.
That much said, your points make perfect sense, as I also considered that the CVS routing would: 1) add an additonal frequency to Charlottesville, which, on most days, only sees one train in each direction. 2) avoids the notorious congestion south of Richmond. 3) is faster, thus also allowing for some friendlier times at Atlanta.
Kind of a hard call to make to me.
BTW, I "adjusted" my times on the timetable, and will display a new one soon.
-------------------- History of Baltimore and Baltimore Transit - Visit http://www.btco.net ! Posts: 86 | From: Baltimore | Registered: Feb 2006
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