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..If and when the tracks will be repaired that were destroyed by hurricane Katrina so The Sunset Limited may resume its full e/w route??
Posts: 2 | Registered: Jan 2007
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It has nothing to do with the tracks or "infrastructure" any more, savanasue, just politics. Hurricane Katrina gave Amtrak an excuse to curtail service E. of New Orleans, and nobody in MS, AL, or FL gives enough of a damn or has enough political clout to point out to Amtrak that CSX has the line back to pre-Katrina standards and is using it accordingly.
Maybe the new congress and the new head of Amtrak will do something about the Sunset soon.
Write to your representative(s) about this, all!
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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This has been discussed previously on this site and elsewhere, but to sum it up:
CSX at their own and their insurers expense and without government money had the line back in service by the end of January, and fully restored signals and all to at least as good and in a lot areas better conditions than existed before Katrina by April 1, 2006. The Bay St. Louis bridge was rebuilt with concrete, so by no meanst can the restoration be considered as a temporary expedient or poor quality patching.
Amtrak claims also the problem is stations, however this is bogus. They happily stop trains in a lot of places where the "station" is nothing more than a platform and a sign on a post. Several stations do need work so they need to get out there and do it.
While it has been said truthfully by Amtrak that the Mobile station has been sold to a developer, according to the Mobile Register, the contract with CSX, not Amtrak, but as set up by CSX, requires the developer to make provision for facilities for Amtrak passengers. Therefore, the Mobile stop is still available at the same location it has been for the last 40 plus years.
At one point the entire line in Mississippi was supposed to be shifted to a location about 10 miles north of its present location and the right of way turned into a new highway. The funding fro that was deleted by congress, so it will not happen in the forseeable future. Also, even if it had happened, the preliminary plans did include provision for at least one passenger station in the vicinity of the US 49 crossing north of Gulfport, so even this change would not preclude passenger service.
In short it appears that CSX had done all that they need to do and then some, and there is nothing else standing in the way of restored passenger service, so the hold up is entirely the fault of Amtrak.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Thanks for the info. I did not know the tracks had been fixed. Why on earth, then does Amtrak not want to resume service. I traveled The Sunset Limited from Los Angeles to Florida three years ago,and since i don''t fly, if i want to return to CA, The Sunset Limited is a great choice, other than driving. Thanks for your knowledge. Posts: 2 | Registered: Jan 2007
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quote:Originally posted by savanasue: Thanks for the info. I did not know the tracks had been fixed. Why on earth, then does Amtrak not want to resume service. I traveled The Sunset Limited from Los Angeles to Florida three years ago,and since i don''t fly, if i want to return to CA, The Sunset Limited is a great choice, other than driving. Thanks for your knowledge.
The climate being what it was for much of 2006 (hostile and ignorant DOT secretary, interim president at Amtrak, trigger happy board, a white house that would be just as happy if Amtrak quietly went away, rumors of a comprehensive route-by-route review to determine which long-distance trains should be discontinued, etc., etc.) I'm guessing that many at Amtrak felt it would be less hassle to just leave the Sunset truncated rather than bring the eastern end back and then start from scratch trying to explain why it should be discontinued later.
Just a guess on my part though.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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All good guesses, David! What is needed is for people to WRITE their reps in DC and in their state capitols to let them know that they VOTE and they ride AMTRAK (when available).
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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A few years back I had to take a Amtrak Bus from St Albans VT to New Haven because of track maintence. The conductor on the bus told us that the Amtrak engineers would not ok the tracks between St Albans and Springfield MA. The Tracks passed for frieght trains but Amtrak would not certify the rails for passanger trains. Perhaps this is the reason for the Sunset Ltd's not running in Katrina areas. So it might be Amtrak's engineers who are stopping the route.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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It appears that Sunset East is becoming Amtrak's Korean War. We should note even though those hostilities ceased almost 54 years ago, North and South Korea remain in a state of war. No peace treaty has ever been signed.
Sunset East could remain "temporarilly annulled' for a long time to come. CSX doesn't want it back and Amtrak appears in no rush to push for its resumption (no stations appears to be a weak one; housetrailers could be on the sites tomorrow if need be). Only NARP and local advocacy groups appear to be "on the case".
There is also an interesting anomally regarding Amtrak train numbering system applicable only to #1, WB Sunset. Usually Amtrak indentifies trains by their number and the date of origin. An example is the #1 that will leave New Orleans Fri Jan 5 will be designated as #1(4) to note its "phantom' departure from Orlando Jan 4. #2 EB Sunset is unaffected.
If Amtrak sought to discontinue the train NOL-ORL, such would require the "180 day notice' under ARAA '97, and could well result in stirring up the 'sleeping gator'.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I sympathize savannasue. I also would like to get JVille and make a hard left toward California and points west.
I did write a lengthy letter (plea) to our Congresswoman Ginny Braith-Waite, about a month or so ago, but no reply as yet.
Posts: 133 | From: Florida, U.S.A. | Registered: May 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Tanner929: A few years back I had to take a Amtrak Bus from St Albans VT to New Haven because of track maintence. The conductor on the bus told us that the Amtrak engineers would not ok the tracks between St Albans and Springfield MA. The Tracks passed for frieght trains but Amtrak would not certify the rails for passanger trains. Perhaps this is the reason for the Sunset Ltd's not running in Katrina areas. So it might be Amtrak's engineers who are stopping the route.
Not really that likely. If this is true, then Amtrak has cooked up their own set of standards instead of the FRA Track Safety Standards that are legal requirements. What it could have meant was that the allowed speed due to track conditions was so low in certain areas that decent run times were impossible. Considering what is done elsewhere this also seems weak.
About the only condition under which a track is acceptable for freight but not passenger is a conditions called "excepted track" For excepted track, the speed limit is 10 mph, extra inspections are required and no hazardous materialy may be transported. Otherwise you have the following standards, each with its own set of deviations from perfection in rail conditions, tie conditions, joint conditions, and alignment deviations.
Class/Freight Speed/Passenger Speed 1: 10/15 2: 25/30 3: 40/60 4: 60/80 5: 80/90 Above this level there are classes for high speed service that include other restrictions but also have no separate passenger and freight limits, possibly on the assumption that we are outside the range of any normal freight operation. There is as yet no track designated Class 9 track in the US, but the portions of the northeast corridor allowing 130 mph to 150 mph must be maintained to Class 8. Class 6: 110 mph Class 7: 125 mph Class 8: 160 mph Class 9: 200 mph
It is also worth remembering that these are SAFETY standards. The track can be safe and the ride be rough enough to shake the fillings out of your teeth. That could have been a factor in the Vermonter issue, but it is not really safety related, but comfort. Any track that rides smoothly will be well inside the limits of safety for alignmetn deviations.
So far as I know, the CSX lines in question have speed limits of 50 mph for freights and may allow 60 mph for container trains where signals are in place - New Orleans to Flomataon AL and Talahassee FL to Jacksonville - and 49 mph where unsignaled - Flomaton to Talahassee. Therefore, the traditional L&N passenger train limit of 70 mph could be used on the signaled portions and the FRA limit of <60 mph, usually 59 mph on the unsignaled portions. The signaled portions are also by FRA limited to <80 mph, usually set at 79 mph due to absence of ATS cab signals or any of the other forms of lights, bells, and whistles required for operation at higher speeds.
George
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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The situation that Tanner929 is referring to usually occured 2-3 times a year when NECR would operate a Sperry rail car or the Amtrak track inspection car over the route. Once that was done, there were usually so many slow orders in place that a timely operation of the train was impossible for a day or two until inspections and/or repairs were made.
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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