posted
Thanks for finding these version 2 diagrams. This definitely looks like a great improvement to the diner/lounge car concept. I like Amtrak's initiative to innovate in the food service space. This car would be great for a Superliner Cardinal, The City of New Orleans, and the Texas Eagle.
posted
I like it too except for one thing. . . Some of the booths have your back facing the immediate windows.
Posts: 34 | From: Kansas City, MO | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Being of the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy I can't help but wonder what idiot changed the diner and lounge car. I think the old way was perfectly fine. Now as I look at the pictures I envision plates sliding off the rounded tables,being squeezed in a small space to eat and not able to comfortably talk to table mates. Having ones back to the windows makes no sense to me at all, I wonder what company is cleaning up on new cars. Do I sound disgruntled? I guess I am. Progress is fine but not when I perceive it going backwards.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Why not just leave one half of the dining car as it exists now - with booths, and the other half as lounge space - that has seats for people to look out the windows. Rather than having to look across the aisle at someone else chowing down on food. There's still no space gained with this new concept, as compared to the old diner format.
Posts: 337 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
Thanks for the photos. A couple of comments: Tables are still too small for four to dine comfortably, and the backs of the seating are too tall. Not only are views diminished, but a pocket is created along the window sills that will collect dirt and dining debris. I think this ridiculous banquette concept is being driven by staff that don't want to have to reach beyond the aisle passengers to serve those sitting on the window side. Really sad, this is. Jp1822 has the right idea. Half the car designed for dining and the other half for lounging.
Posts: 103 | From: St. Louis, MO USA | Registered: Oct 2002
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posted
I have to agree with everyone that the design/layout of the dining tables is peculiar, however I don't think it was driven by the OBS staff as STLBoomer has suggested.
The way Amtrak operates, it was more likely driven by someone sitting in an office who has no concept of the dining experience. JMHO
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
what's wrong with 2 cars as we have always had. On some trains such as the CZ the lounge is always crowded west of Denver. There are times when it smells like a brewery. Can you imagine trying to eat in that atmosphere?
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Artists renderings always look better than reality.
It does look like a modest improvement in the table shape. What irks me about this is the same problem in the first design. Inward facing seats should face other inward facing seats so people can socialize across the aisle (as in the Pacific parlour car). Here, as with the previous design, lounge seats face dining seats.
Lounge and dining seats need to be separate from each other, even if they are in the same car.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
If Amtrak insists on the banquette style seating, they would do well to check out the layout on the twin unit diner used on the 1948 version of the 20th Century Ltd.
It had some tables for 4 with the standard seating style. Also had quite a few inward facing tables for two. They might work as the book I have describes: "..serpentine couches that were installed against each wall and the slightly angled tables. This allowed passengers on one side to get a panoramic view of all the scenery on the other side, but without looking directly at the opposite table."
However I can think of no reason why the standard booth style table for 4 isn't the best option. Especially if they had those cool little table lights like the 1948 Broadway Ltd had - and now appear on the Cascade diners.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by stlboomer: I think this ridiculous banquette concept is being driven by staff that don't want to have to reach beyond the aisle passengers to serve those sitting on the window side.
If you think OBS employees are consulted in any meaningful way about proposed changes in car layout, I want some of what you've been smoking!
Posts: 73 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
Hopefully, the concept will never become reality. It's a poor use of already limited space, created by someone who has obviously spent little (if any) time traveling by train.
At the rate that Americans continue to "expand," at least half of Amtrak's passengers are already too rotund to squeeze into such unnatural seating. Even now, an ever-increasing number are having a hard enough time dealing with Amtrak's traditional booth seating.
posted
The first picture that Mr. Coast Starlight shared looks like an H & R Block office at a shopping mall. I am not impressed........
I agree with others that ALL seating in a diner or a lounge car MUST allow for the passengers to see out the window, not to face inward toward the aisle. "Socializing" is fine, but when I take the train, I am MUCH more interested in looking out the window at the scenery!
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
And I would suggest writing to Amtrak about this ridiculous design (copy to CEO Kummant, COO Crosbie, and Board Chairman Laney), perhaps this time before it gets off the ground. Enough of this wasteful spending to redesign the cars. More money being spent on the re-design than what these cars will achieve in savings if you ask me - and that includes the customer relation phone calls that produce headaches.
I think the traditional format of separate diner and lounge was fine - especially for the main transcon routes of the Empire Builder, Southwest Chief, and CA Zephyr. Even the Capitol Limited's diner and lounge would be over flowing on its one-night operation between Washington DC an Chicago.
With this whole dining experiment, Amtrak needs to say - we tried, it doesn't work, so we are going to leave the separate Superliner Diner and Sightseer Car while maintaining SDS service (minus the Empire Builder, Auto Train and hopefully the Coast Starlight), and improve on revenue opportunites in the Sightseer Car (I think there is lots of revenue potential here that is missed). OR reconfigure the diner as I posted above - 1/2 with booth seating and 1/2 with lounge seating. And I think these types of cars would only work on trains like the Capitol Limited, Texas Eagle, City of New Orleans etc.on a one night trip end point to end point. Peak season or when more cars are added, you would have to revert back to separate diner and lounge.
We haven't seen the latest design play out yet, but those that experienced dining on the reconfigured diner 37000 complained loud enough that it was taken back for a re-design. Amtrak has changed some things with the re-design - but not enough!
Posts: 337 | Registered: Jun 2003
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posted
The hell with making the ambience better -- can't they make the FOOD better first?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I like banquette seating. But as long as the dining staff seats passengers with strangers that type of seating is NOT a good idea. It is better to sit across from each other to become acquainted rather than huddled into a "den". SDS should be on all the LD trains that do one overnight journey. Also SDS put on the Spokane - Portland run and on the Chicago - San Antonio(?)run. Keep the full service dining on the two night trips. And yes Henry can't they make the food better first whether it is SDS, or full dining. I think from the trip reports I have been reading that improvement has to happen with the dining/cooking staff.
Posts: 498 | From: New Hope, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
I'm reading conflicting reports about which trains will get these cars.
Last year Trains magazine reported that converted diner/lounges would be limited to Superliner I cars and used on a half dozen trains designated as "basic service" trains while the rest would be classified as "full service" trains and keep separate diners and lounges. These would use Superliner II diners and lounges.
NARP reported in the latest newsletter that ALL lounges and 18 diners would be converted, and be used on all long distance trains. Most trains would have two diner/lounge cars, and the Starlight would still have a third in the form of the Parlour Car.
Amtrak INK reports that the amenity upgrades on the Empire Builder have proven so successful that they will be applied to other trains, which means separate diners and lounges.
I don't know what to believe anymore.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
This design looks awful to me, too. The curved inward facing seating will squeeze people's legs together which will be very uncomfortable, especially for the person in the middle. Diners in those seats will miss great scenery that happens to pass behind their backs. When the table for four across the aisle is being served, the folks at inward facing tables will be staring at the server's butt rather than scenery outside the window. And folks at the tables for four will have to put up with having diners at the inward facing tables staring at them while they eat. Also how long will it take for the dining crew to allow lounge customers to take over some of those seats? This is a complete waste of money by Amtrak. This money should be saved to allow the purchase of more LD equipment.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
If we must live with food service from a single car, I would favor traditional lounge seating in one half and 'regular' tables in the other half.
I really enjoyed the greater comfort of the Budd built diners used by VIA on the Canadian where passenger seating is in separate chairs and not booths.
Given the uncomfortable and cramped appearance of these concept cars, I'm wondering how the dining car staff would feel about preparing meals to go? I would rather take my SDS meal back to my room than be forced to eat with my back to the wall and my knees fighting for space with a perfect stranger.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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