posted
I plan on choosing whom I'm going to support for President of the United States based on a handful of issues. One of those issues is going to be based on their views on Amtrak and passenger rail.
In your opinion, who is the candidate that will be best for Amtrak? Who will be the worst?
Posts: 30 | From: Colorado | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by DesertSpirit: In your opinion, who is the candidate that will be best for Amtrak? Who will be the worst?
Are you chumming? You know, throwing about some fish guts to draw the railfan policy wonkers into a feeding frenzy?
It always works, so enjoy.
But since you surely have studied all of the candidates' positions on pax rail (since it's such an important factor in determining your vote), why don't you start by sharing your take on this "critical" issue? Please enlighten us.
Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2002
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Sorry for my dim and boring opinion here, but........as far as Amtrak is concerned, it really doesn't matter who wins the White House. Amtrak will struggle every year, and there will be rumors of them going bankrupt and disappearing forever. Then at the last possible moment, Congress (no matter who is in power) will vote for "just enough" funding to keep things status quo. I'm using history as my guide. Okay, and my opinion too.
But no matter who wins the White House, we still have a war and terrorism to deal with. This means lots of $$$$, so we'll hear hardly a peep (if any at all) out of the candidates regarding Amtrak. If one of them does mention it in a press release some day, what do you think the odds are that it will be spelled "Amtrack"?? They barely know what Amtrak is.....
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Even during his brief candidacy, Tommy Thompson, who on the strength of several pro-passenger rail initiatives while Wisconsin governor some might have thought would be "the passenger rail president" did not have one word in any news article I read on his candidacy about the issue.
Sorry, but Amtrak is a non-issue - and so should be this topic since there appears to be no Moderator around here to keep order.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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He is also one of the few politicians out there who rallies to increase security on board the trains.
Bill Richardson, Governor of New Mexico, not only told me he supports the Southwest Chief, but he has also been instrumental in the development and implementation of the Railrunner, a heavy commuter train that presently goes from Belen to Bernallillo and will go all the way to Santa Fe next year (and maybe Denver someday).
Richardson has seen to it that the track between Raton, NM and Albuquerque has been purchased by the state and (I think) as a direct result of this action, freight trains no longer travel (and mangle) this route.
"Trains" magazine reported in its August issue that BNSF Railway will end freight operations between Albuquerque and La Junta early next year. This is great news for those of us who travel on the Chief because that is one of the most beautiful routes on earth.
Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Mr. Reuben referenced the one Senator in the running who actually rides Amtrak to work, and whose son was recently appointed to the Amtrak board of directors. Its possible he might be more inclined to support Amtrak than others.
On the flip side, however, I've also heard that his main interest is in the NEC and he doesn't really care much about the national network.
I was disappointed to see Tommy Thompson drop out based on the *** and pony show known as the Iowa Straw Poll. Besides the fact that he served on the Amtrak board, he was the one Republican in the bunch that tried to steer away from the emotional issues and deal with the nuts and bolts of running the country. If there were more Republicans like that I'd still be one.
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I still have hopes that we will see Tommy Thompson as DOT Secretary someday.
Otherwise it really makes little difference if past precedent is any indication. Mr. Smitty and Mr. Norman have already observed as much.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I think Smitty has it exactly right. For most of those that do think anything about it, they think of it as two parts: The "necessary well used Northeast Corridor" and "a few slow empty trains rattling around elsewhere to keep the rubes for forcing us to kill the NEC" There has been enough said about the lack of reality in this concept that it need not be repeated here.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Although I believe this point has been addressed here before, SecTrans is a "throwaway" chair. It most definitely is not State, Defense, or Treasury. It is not even HHS, which Tommy held during President Bush's first term.
Trans ends up as a "show bipartisanship" (Mineta), "rewards points" (Pena, Dole), racial balance (Coleman), "able administrator" in a lame duck administration (incumbent Ms. Peters) chair.
Need I say more? there has really only been one SecTrans with private and public sector transportation experience and that was the first Alan S. Boyd (I'll acknowledge Coleman had some as an attorney involved in transportation matters).
Anyone think Tommy would take it if offered in '08? I don't think so. K Street is too lucrative for the wallet.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Wasn't W. Graham Claytor Secretary of Transportation for about the last third of the Carter Presidency? That would be another DOT secretary with legitimate transportation experience.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Charles Reuben: Bill Richardson, Governor of New Mexico, not only told me he supports the Southwest Chief, but he has also been instrumental in the development and implementation of the Railrunner, a heavy commuter train that presently goes from Belen to Bernallillo and will go all the way to Santa Fe next year (and maybe Denver someday).
And yet.... Albuquerque is probably the worst Amtrak station in the entire system. You would think a major proponent of Amtrak would have replaced that falling-apart station years ago.
It is in his back yard and it is surrounded by a brand new Greyhound station and the "El Mercado" public transportation center.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: Wasn't W. Graham Claytor Secretary of Transportation for about the last third of the Carter Presidency? That would be another DOT secretary with legitimate transportation experience.
posted
Posted by Mike Smith: "Albuquerque is probably the worst Amtrak station in the entire system. You would think a major proponent of Amtrak would have replaced that falling-apart station years ago."
Very true, but I can't help but wonder if the rumors of BNSF abandoning the Belen-La Junta route (before NMex bought it) made the future of the ABQ station uncertain. Then there is city politics, rumors of the demise of the LD's, and who is going to pay for it.
I hate to add fuel to the fire of cycnism here, but it seems like being media savvy, driving up opponents negatives, and having scripted messages are what drives political success nowdays. If a candidate did have a vision for expanded passenger rail, it wouldn't win them enough votes to be considered worth talking about. Better to keep those calculated sound bites coming and stay on message.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
As is, I agree with Mr.Norman, and Smitty. (I do think the following paragraph should've been the last one, but can't cut/paste,sorry)..... But unfortunately money says it tall in this country (past, present,and future). They are the powers which drive this nation. It has been very beneficial to us, but also very harmful. The common working man has experienced both sides. They feel it especially when it's harmful. As the saying goes,"I don't pay taxes, only the little people pay taxes". Secy.of Transportation should have more clout to be effectual (is that a word?)on matters of improved passenger rail infrastructure for rail corridors throughout our nation. The NE corridor is so vital, but it is not the only corridor of importance. There's the west, the southwest, the northwest, the midwest, and the southeast. Wow, we almost have LD rail corridors here! I consider this as "rehab" for travelers to use rail travel more; air / road travel less. We need subsidized passenger rail. If anyone (candidate + voter) wants to be portrayed as environmentally conscious let them put their money where their mouth is on the campaign trail AND post election! But an influential Secy.of Transportation is an oxymoron. Seems to me that position should work with (not dump on) our states and commonwealths to achieve these goals. (I'm too ideological). This has been seriously lacking with Amtrak from it's beginning, and very obvious at the present.
Posts: 498 | From: New Hope, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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I notice Mr Desert Spirit with his 8 posts has not been back to share his views with us.
I agree with Mr Smitty. I also agree with Mr Norman that SecTrans is not a "first line" appointment to the Cabinet.
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: Posted by Mike Smith: "Albuquerque is probably the worst Amtrak station in the entire system. You would think a major proponent of Amtrak would have replaced that falling-apart station years ago."
Very true, but I can't help but wonder if the rumors of BNSF abandoning the Belen-La Junta route (before NMex bought it) made the future of the ABQ station uncertain. Then there is city politics, rumors of the demise of the LD's, and who is going to pay for it.
According to the letter I received from the Mayor of Albuquerque, the station was Amtrak's call and the Fed's call on coughing up the money to replace it. I wrote back and told him it is a reflection of his city. I did not receive a response to that letter.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PullmanCo: [QB] I notice Mr. Desert Spirit with his 8 posts has not been back to share his views with us.
Mr. Desert Spirit and my 8 posts are sitting quite contentedly in the background reading the responses. If I had wanted to infuse my own views into the situation I would have done so with my original post. However, I expressly requested that I receive others opinions on the matter, as I already know mine, and was curious as to what others were thinking. If however my limited number of posts does not qualify me to ask such a question on this forum, well then I certainly express my humblest, most sincere apologies to you, Mr. Pullman for having offended thee with my measly 8 posts, sir.
Posts: 30 | From: Colorado | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
No apologies necessary, Mr. Spirit (or may I call you Desert?). I'm sure you did not offend Mr. Pullman (and if you did, I'm sure he'll get over it).
He, like I, just expressed an interest in hearing your opinion.
Personally, a candidate's campaign statements regarding Amtrak would just be a remote blip on my political radar screen. I'm just not a railfan policy-wonker (the absence of a bumper-sticker-profound-thought-signature-line at the end of my posts makes that obvious).
But apparently you're different from me (some around here would take that as a compliment). The signature line gives you away. That, and your statement that Amtrak is one of just a "handful of issues" that will determine your vote.
Therefore, I assume you have thoroughly studied the candidates' positions on Amtrak. And you state you have developed an opinion. I'm curious as to what that is.
Please consider sharing your opinion.
But don't feel like you have to. Chum and catch is a lot more fun than clean and cook.
Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Mike Smith: . . . I wrote back and told him it is a reflection of his city. I did not receive a response to that letter.
Why are we not surprised?
As to the question of Amtrak being rerouted to the freight line through Amarillo: Even when they did the temporary re-routes that way last winter, they still took the train into Albuquerque, and were able to do it all within the limits of the current schedule, using the 70 mph speed limit on the freight line.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: Wasn't W. Graham Claytor Secretary of Transportation for about the last third of the Carter Presidency? That would be another DOT secretary with legitimate transportation experience.
In retrospect that does seem like about a third of the Carter Presidency!
I had forgotten that his 'stint' at DOT was preceeded by a couple of years as Secretary of the Navy.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote: Sorry, but Amtrak is a non-issue - and so should be this topic since there appears to be no Moderator around here to keep order.
Gilbert, the poster has every right to bring this topic up. It is a legitimate topic, no matter how much you apparently want to close the discussion.
Posts: 78 | From: Kansas City | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Of course, Mr. MOKSRail, the poster has the "right" to bring this topic up. Jeez, joust with a strawman, will ya?
But though I may have the "right", say, to pass gas in a crowded elevator, I suspect most people would question my selection of that particular setting to exercise that "right." I think that's Mr. Norman's point (and it's certainly mine). This particular forum is not a good venue for heavy-breathing policy wonking.
My take is:
(1) This site is not moderated. Unlike the Boy Scouts, there's no adult supervision. Usually these political threads degenerate and/or result in hard feelings. There's no sheriff around here to arrest the belligerent and shoot down the personal attacks.
If you're really into wonking, give rr.net a try. It's an excellent rail policy forum.
(2) For those who wish to wonk away without moderation, there is an advocacy forum on this site for this very purpose. Yo, wonkers, consider using it.
(3) My problem with this thread is it's a blatant attempt to "stir the pot." There were some nibbles, but no one really took the bait. So far.
But for how long before someone bites? You've all heard the saying: tigers will be tigers; rattlers will be rattlers; and wonkers will be wonkers. It's best not to needlessly provoke them, because there's some basic behaviors that just can't be changed.
You know, the "big" election is next year. But the campaign is starting mighty early, and we're already into wonker rutting season. It's a time to tread very carefully around here, for this is prime wonker habitat. Things have remained relatively calm hereabouts, but that could change in an instant. Just remember to wear tall boots, change your underwear daily, and always be aware of your surroundings. Do these things, and you need not fear the wonkers (unless one goes rabid, and then you're on your own).
But let me warn you wonkers. If you get out of control, I will personally take you for a crowded elevator ride on a day I've attended a chili cook-off. Believe me, that's an experience you don't want to have.
Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Mr. MOKSRAIL, my objection to the political candidates topic was not the topic per se, but simply, as Mr. Zephyr also notes, at an unmoderated forum, it would be too easy for such to get out of control - and there is no adult supervision on hand.
I find the discussion at railroad.net is more directed towards the business and public policy environment of Amtrak rather than 'save our trains' discussion that to me constitutes "advocacy'. The discussion is carefully moderated, so should fights develop, they are quickly addressed.
I ought to know; I served two terms as Amtrak Forum Moderator there.
Finally, regarding Mr. Zephyr's comment that the Presidential election process seems to be "starting mighty early', that was my initial reaction as well. However, when one realizes that so many states have decided that Feb 08 is the ideal time for a primary, each major party's nominee will be known likely by March.
Why bother with the National Conventions; just give each of 'em twelve hours of free prime time network airtime to use as they please and be done with the folderol. The last time there was any REAL suspense of any real consequence at a convention was with the Republicans during 1952. The nomination balloting between Eisenhower and Taft could have "gone either way'.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Moderators? Adult supervision? Should I be afraid the right to a serious discussion of ponies, penguins, bagpipes and dashes is being threatened!
This forum has brought together such an entertaining and intelligent group that I am always eager to hear opinions on any subject. And I am in awe of train haiku.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Yes this is a thread of volcanic proportions. Lord knows, my lava overflowed. Zephyr,I guess that can cause sulpher exhaust fumes as bad as your chili cookoff flatulence. For the most part posters have been very good on this forum with refraining. But many of the praises and complaints we have about Amtrak stem from its dependency on the politicians' treatment of it. Be it pro, con, half-baked, or nonexistent. ......p.s. Did I use the dashes correctly? ...uh,oh
Posts: 498 | From: New Hope, PA, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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posted
Ah, Mr. Century, there's nothing better than this: You start by going to a chili cook-off (I always put a dash in cook-off, but I think it's just because I have dash envy).
After you've had all the chili and beer you can stand, you mosey on over to a tall building with a slow elevator. If it's a hot day and the A/C in the elevator is out, all the better.
Once in the lobby of the building, timing becomes critical. It's imperative that you patiently wait until a very large crowd assembles for boarding the elevator. Then "ding", the doors open, and the crowd surges into the elevator.
Now it's time to make your move. Force yourself into the elevator just as the doors are closing. This will strategically place you in a position where you can slide over to the control panel and block anyone else from using it.
Then, it's show time. Time to exercise your "rights."
Oh, my goodness. It's a sight to behold. People's faces turning weird colors as they try to hold their breath. The look on their faces as they stare in disbelief at the elevator's interior paint blistering and peeling away. Right before their very eyes.
Ah, I can go on. You learn so much about human nature, survival instincts, and involuntary realeases of bodily fluids. I just can't explain it. It's something you just have to experience.
Tell you what. Next time you're in town, we'll do some chili and then go express our elevator "rights."
It's something you'll never forget.
Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2002
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posted
Ah, but Mr. Century, they won't know it was us.
See, right after we exercise our "rights," the trick is to immediately start gesturing and glaring at the guy standing next to us. Being closest to ground zero, he'll be the one most dazed, in the highest state of discomfort, and have the most vision impairment. In his vulnerable state, he won't notice what we're falsely fingering him. But everyone else will, and will follow our lead in indentifying him as cause of "the event."
Trust me on this one, Mr. Century. I know what I'm doing.
Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2002
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The best way to do a crowded elevator is to have two cut it simultaneously!
Oh, well. Frankly, with billions on the national debt and deficit, and with a full quarter of our Army and Marine Corps in harms way, I want to see a comprehensive vision from our next President, not a series of one-liners.
I suspect the Chiefs will win the Super Bowl again before I see that vision.
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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posted
Much as I would like to see a consistent rail passenger program with significantly more money put into it, this point is highly unlikely to be a decider for me. If candidate "A" says a consistent $3 billion per year for Amtrak and candidate "B" says no Amtrak but has what I regard as the correct perspective on what I regard as the much more important items X, Y, Z, I will just have to say, sorry Amtrak, these other things are more important. There are quite a few other things that are of greater long term significance to the country. I will say no more, as this is supposed to be about Amtrak, not politics in general.
In making this sort of decision, remember Amtrak is and has always been much more a creature of the congress than of the executive branch, so even if a president wants to kill it, it is just not going to make it so.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
George and others have a point, that Amtrak is pretty low on the national priority list. However, transportation as a whole should be a fairly high priority. It sure would be nice to see a candidate that recognizes the importance of transportation, and understands that it has a direct effect on the economy, the environment, energy, and the livability of communities then develops a transportation plan that takes all of these into consideration. Then passenger rail might gain more respect.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
Perhaps a goal of having a candidate support a tax rebate or subsidy to upgrade grade crossings to make them safer would be a good starting point.
-------------------- Paul E Larson Posts: 34 | From: Camillus NY USA | Registered: Jul 2003
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quote:Originally posted by whistler: Perhaps a goal of having a candidate support a tax rebate or subsidy to upgrade grade crossings to make them safer would be a good starting point.
Detail items like that are usually addressed at the state and local level, though federal funds may be available. At the national level we need people who are looking at the big picture, the entire network.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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quote:Originally posted by whistler: Perhaps a goal of having a candidate support a tax rebate or subsidy to upgrade grade crossings to make them safer would be a good starting point.
Detail items like that are usually addressed at the state and local level, though federal funds may be available. At the national level we need people who are looking at the big picture, the entire network.
I would disagree.
Everytime some pinhead in Texas or California puts themselves in front of a trainby going around the crossing gates it is a national news story and bad press for both freight and passenger service. Support for some type of Federal tax rebate or subidy that can apply to both the RR's and communities they run through instead of the hodgepodge of state and local attempts maybe with the help of the local railroads would save train crews and families alot of grief and a few lives.
Get a candidate who sees the good press in saving lives by supporting Federal funding of improving crossing safety and then we might get more politicians and others looking at the bigger picture of supporting passenger rail, in whatever form.
I'm not saying it well.
-------------------- Paul E Larson Posts: 34 | From: Camillus NY USA | Registered: Jul 2003
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