posted
It was mentioned in the forum that Amtrak made mention in their website of the Coast Starlight disruption, due to the mudslide near Oakridge, OR, on their website last week. It was also mentioned that the notice was recently off Amtrak's website. In a quick search I couldn't find any notice of current disruption. Further search of web news, I couldn't find if the line has been repaired or not.
I'm hoping to travel at the very end of Feb. on the Starlight, so I gave Amtrak a call. The phone agent seemed to think the CS was running right now. Hmmmm...........
So, for those of you with better connections/info on rail conditions, does it look like the mudslide has been repaired?
Thanks!
Posts: 72 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Go to the website, load in an itinerary, say, Eugene to Sacramento for Jan 30. You will be returned 'train sold out' AND a link to the Service Advisory.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Reservations start working again on Feb. 17th...
My wife and 2 of my sons were coming through Oakridge last Saturday and she wanted me to make motel reservations for her. I called the Best Western but they had no rooms because of all the workers brought in to clean up the landslide. I guess Oakridge is getting an economic boom out of this! If you have Google Earth and want to see where the slide is, here is a placemark:
posted
In the Passenger Trains Forum at Trainorders.com , there is a discussion on this topic. One of the recent posts has a letter from Kummant to the Rail Passenger Association of California which gives detailed info on the situation. Apparently, the damage was much more extensive than originally thought. It seems that Amtrak doesn't really know for sure when service will resume, but it seems likely to be a matter of weeks, not days.
Posts: 133 | From: Canaan, CT | Registered: Dec 2004
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I hope this helps everyone to keep up to date on this truly major news item for rail passengers! ---- Daniel
Posts: 283 | From: Palo Alto,CA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
So how many thousands of customers have been forced to make new plans due to Amtrak's unwillingness to create a bus bridge? How many of those customers will never try Amtrak again?
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
VERY good point Mr Toy about the large amount of potentianl lost business. Amtrak should have at least operated stub trains to show the public that they can "Keep the Lights ON". It is very sad that Amtrak is behaving like nothing but a for profit BUSINESS here. We all need to agree once and for all that passenger rail is a SERVICE that benefits ALL and not a profit making business. Passenger trains need to operate ALL the time even if there is only 1 passenger or 100 passengers. I am thinking of the long time slogan of the US Postal Service "Neither Rain, Nor Sleet, Nor gloom of night - will stop the mail" . We need and deserve that sort of dedication to the PERMANENT operation of passenger trains.
The public needs to know that passenger trains can be there ALL the time short of civil emergencies.
I eagerly look forward to further input on this very important matter. --- Daniel
Posts: 283 | From: Palo Alto,CA | Registered: Jul 2000
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posted
Keep in mind that the February 17th is arbitrary, just as the February 1st date was arbitrary as well.
From the information I have, there is an INCREDIBLE amount of work to be done at the location of the slide(s). It's not just a matter of scooping it up and hauling it away. Safety is a very big concern, and I would not be surprised to see the line closed well through the end of February.
Now, what will Amtrak do while this line is closed? Who knows? I sure don't. I've read and heard the various pros and cons of why the Coast Starlight has been suspended along the entire route. In my own personal opinion, all items taken into consideration, I think it's a very poor decision. I'm sorry to see Mr. Kummant doing this. I think he has been a great CEO for Amtrak, but this major decision he has made is making me question his actions. I don't get it---I read his stated reasons---but I don't get it.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Whether they do a bus bridge or no, they still ought to be able to operate a day train from LAX to the Bay Area.....
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Smitty, I haven't seen Mr. Kummant's explanation. Where did you read it?
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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posted
Suspending the Starlight is a logical result of the low levels to which American passenger rail service has fallen. Whether the suspension -- as with the Sunset East -- is simply a case of the needed resources not being there, or a conscious decision by people who are well aware of the effects that this will have on train ridership, seems irrelevant. There was probably a combination of reasons. Some influential people seem to have concluded that at this point there is enough of a trend afoot towards ending long-distance train service, that such decisions won't be received unfavorably by a majority of public decision makers. And maybe the majority of the general public has concluded that we don't need long-distance trains. Either way this is the trend we are seeing, and it's up to the voters and the public to try and reverse it, keeping the best interests of the country in mind.
I agree completely with the thoughts expressed above that passenger rail should be a public service. That's what passenger transportation is. Even James Hill knew that passenger trains didn't make money, yet that didn't stop them from becoming an indispensable modern technology around the world. Unfortunately when Congress mandated that Amtrak be financially self-supporting ten years ago, they missed that point -- and along with them, the majority of the public as well as passenger train supporters.
I also agree that there is a profoundly illogical quality to the way passenger rail decisions have been made on a broad scale -- and that the decision to discontinue the Starlight along its full length, is absolutely something to which reasonable people will say "I don't get it." For example, the modes of transportation that cost the least to operate per passenger, such as trains, are frequently represented as rather an uneconomical solution, a project that would be a waste of scarce funds. I see this kind of thinking not only on a national scale, i.e. Amtrak, but also locally for commuter rail.
There seems to be a crisis unfolding over long distance train service. Rather than being chiefly the fault of Mr. Kummant or prominent political figures, society across the board bears responsibility, and that includes us rail passengers. What we do now will have a large effect on the way things turn out. There are unprecedented efforts being undertaken to expand long-distance trains, and I lend them my full support.
Posts: 144 | Registered: Sep 2005
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posted
Thanks for the responses everyone; lots of good links and sources! I can imagine that UP wants the slide cleared up asap, but I imagine it will take time.
Posts: 72 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Mr. Toy: Smitty, I haven't seen Mr. Kummant's explanation. Where did you read it?
Here ya go:
January 28, 2008
Mr. Paul J. Dyson President Rail Passenger Association of California 1008 – 10th Street, Suite 217 Sacramento, CA 95814
Dear Mr. Dyson:
Thank you for your letter of January 22 regarding your concerns with the temporary cessation of the Coast Starlight service. As you are aware, the Union Pacific Railroad (UPRR) mainline across the Cascade Range has been closed because of a significant landslide at Coyote Mountain, which is between Chemult and Eugene, Oregon.
The Coast Starlight is one of our premiere services and ranks highly among our long-distance services in terms of ridership and revenue. That said, this time of year, late January and February, is in relative terms the seasonal low point for ridership on this train. When the landslide at Coyote Mountain occurred on January 19, it was difficult to obtain from UPRR a reliable estimate of the extent of the damage and the duration of track closure, for reasons outlined below. In fact, the duration of track closure is still unclear at this time.
Initial reports from UPRR on January 19 indicated that an area about 0.8 miles in length was covered with 4-10 feet of debris, but that the line might reopen within two or three days. We immediately instituted a bus bridge between Klamath Falls and Portland to accommodate passengers who already were enroute. On January 19, this resulted in a 9 hour delay for northbound passengers and a nearly 6 hour delay for southbound passengers, though delays caused by the bus bridge were reduced over the following days.
Late in the day on January 20, UPRR provided Amtrak with an updated track repair estimate of two or three weeks. The damage report was more significant that earlier reported, covering parts of a segment 14 miles in length, with areas of track buried in 15 feet of debris, and with continued movement of the soil in the area. The location is in a very remote, steeply sloped area with minimal road access. On January 21, the bus bridge resulted in a 1 hour delay for northbound passengers and a 19 minute delay for southbound passengers. We decided to continue the bus bridge for three more days (January 22, 23 and 24), but then annul the Coast Starlight in its entirety, including the bus bridge, through February 1.
This decision was made after careful consideration of projected passenger counts and revenues, compared to bus bridge costs and added employee-related expenses, particularly, the relocation of mechanical forces to Klamath Falls to turn and service the train set that would terminate there is service continued to operate during this extended track outage. The bus bridge costs are not insignificant, approximately $12,000-$15,000 a day. We also considered that, as stated above, usage of the Coast Starlight in late January is less than at other times of year, and the challenges presented by running stub trains and bus bridges, especially in winter.
We carefully evaluated all of these factors and looked at every opportunity available to us, including talking to BNSF Railway, which has a potential detour route via Wishram, Washington, and Bend, Oregon. This detour route proved not to be practical due to its 49-mph top speeds and the many UPRR freights already diverted to it because of the track outage.
After this evaluation process, we came to the decision of annulling the train through the area for two weeks in order to give the UPRR a chance to give us an informed timetable for reopening the line, which then would allow us to go back and determine what future steps we can take, and when we can take them. In the end, the cost of running stub trains and a bus bridge far outweighed the revenue benefits of running the train during these firs two weeks of the track outage.
We also considered whether to operate stub trains on the northern and southern extreme of the route. Again, given the season and other factors, we found that running the stub trains made no sense for the period through February 1. In the north, parallel Cascades service has ample space this time of year to carry additional passengers. Also, the northbound Coast Starlight carries no local passengers north of Eugene.
In the south, we found that ridership on the Coast Starlight that is local to the Los Angeles-Sacramento segment is light during this season and could be diverted temporarily to the State’s network of corridor trains and thruway buses for the period through February 1. For example, there is the Pacific Surfliner service from Los Angeles to San Luis Obispo and the Capitol Corridor service from San Jose to Sacramento, also connected by thruway bus service. Also, passengers to and from Los Angeles can use connecting thruway bus and the San Joaquin train service via Bakersfield. During this current two-week period, we will have the chance to talk with Caltrans about other bussing options to bridge parts of this route. You raised a number of arguments in favor of marketing a stub train along the coast route within California. However, keeping in mind that our decision was made on January 21 with a hope of restoring service early in February, a process of prudent planning and analysis of the sort of service that you have suggested would likely have taken as long as the service outage lasted.
That said, UPRR has not yet given us a firm indication of when the line in Oregon will reopen. February is a relatively weaker period for the Coast Starlight, but ridership historically increases heading into March and April. You can be assured that we want to reinstitute the service as quickly as possible. Given the information available to us, we believe that the decision we made was the correct one. We expect within the next two weeks, the service options available to us will become clearer, and that a more definite path to full recovery will be found. We will keep the public informed as we make any such determinations.
Sincerely,
Alex Kummant President and Chief Executive Officer
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Service available between Los Angeles and Sacramento
OAKLAND – Amtrak is restoring service on a portion of the route of the Coast Starlight, beginning Wednesday, February 6. Following discussions with the Union Pacific Railroad, service on the route was suspended between Los Angeles and Seattle on January 19, due to massive mudslides over the railroad north of Chemult, Ore. All railroad traffic through that area has been suspended and is not expected to resume for many weeks.
The first northbound departure of this version of the Coast Starlight, Train 14, will leave Los Angeles on February 6 at 10:15 a.m., making all regularly-scheduled stops and arriving in Sacramento later that night at 11:59 p.m. The first day of service in both directions will be Thursday, February 7, when the southbound Coast Starlight, Train 11, will depart Sacramento at 6:35 a.m., making all regularly-scheduled stops and arriving in Los Angeles at 9:00 p.m.
There will be no Amtrak train service north of Sacramento, but related Amtrak Thruway Motorcoaches in Northern California and Amtrak Cascades trains between Eugene, Ore., and Vancouver, B.C., via Portland and Seattle, are operating.
During this partial service restoration, only Coach class will be offered. No sleeping car accommodations will be available. Food and beverage service will be available in a lounge car. The more formal dining service usually offered on the regular Coast Starlight will be suspended until the resumption of full route between Los Angeles and Seattle. The Coast Starlight will continue to operate as an all-reserved train and passengers will be able to check bags at stations that normally offer that service.
About Amtrak
Amtrak provides intercity passenger rail service to more than 500 destinations in 46 states on a 21,000-mile route system. For schedules, fares and information, passengers may call 800-USA-RAIL or visit Amtrak.com.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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I just saw this posted at the National Association of Railroad Passengers website and stopped by to see if anyone else had noticed yet.
Glad to see you on top of things for us!!!!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
This information Mr. Kisor received certainly conflicts with what Amtrak has linked from their home page.
It would appear that the left hand does not know what the right is doing; but then I have learned over the years that is simply 'the Amtrak way".
But to add to the evident confusion, as of a few moments ago. the website returned a Feb 9 Santa Barbara to Sacramento itinerary via the Starlight.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Now it's time to "backpedal' at the web site (same release Mr. Kisor obtained yesterday).
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I'm glad to see partial service being restored, notwithstanding their previous protestations that it couldn't be done. Now that it can be done, why can't they run at least one sleeper on the train. Lots of people would not travel that distance in a coach, and when I've been on the train several roomettes or bedrooms would be sold to passengers going to various places up to and including Sacramento.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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posted
Mr. Royal, from a fellow who also would book a Day Room for that length a journey simply because "My Space" has a different meaning to me than some web site. In there I can drink my 'Private Stock" for which I would hope Paul Giamatti, Virginia Madsen, and Sandra Oh would approve (latter two quite welcome to join me!!!; Paul; you're not as stealing from your own family is about as low as you go in my book).
But we are a distinct minority amongst the universe of Amtrak passengers.
Possibly, Mr. Royal, you have ridden First Class on the Paris Metro (RATP I don't think offers it anymore). I have, but such was simply an exercise to say 'I did it'.
Even though most US roads offered day Drawing Rooms in their lightweight Parlors, the only road that enjoyed public acceptance of such appeared to be PRR NY-Wash. This is simply owing to the "important' clientele traveling then "the only way to go' between the political and financial capitols of the world (sobering article a week ago in The New York Times suggesting London could well displace NY as financial capitol during this century).
The New Haven even had Day Roomettes that seated two, however those were quickly relegated to 'Conductor's office' or 'Porter's broom closet' quite early in the game.
But even though I cannot sign on to Amtrak offering a Sleeping Car solely for the purpose of day occupancy, I do commend the efforts they make to market such space over segments as LA-Oak on the Starlight, Chi-Mpls, Chi-KC, Miami-Tampa, Miami-Jax, Atl-NO. Hey, the car and Attendant are there anyway, and any additional revenue (and Attendant's tips) are simply 'gravy'. However, why they do not market, let alone carry, NY-Wash on the Meteor, Star, and Crescent escapes me.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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