Obviously, the fleet of Superliners awaiting repairs should be Amtrak's first priority if and when "the money" comes through.

But with all the talk of how badly Amtrak needs "new" equipment (Viewliners or otherwise) wouldn't it be more cost-effective for Mr. Gunn to totally refurbish a Heritage car, right down to the toilets, than build a new Viewliner from scratch?

Amtrak did rebuild at least one 10-6 sleeper (ex-CB&Q "Silver--") during the "eighties" with retention toilets, but obviously there was not sufficient "cost/benefit" to refit more cars. When no further "exemptions" on dumping could be obtained, Amtrak simply withdrew all Heritage sleepers from revenue service.

All-new cars are at least several years away, and something will almost have to be done in the interim. I don't know what heritage cars survive with Amtrak; but I don't believe there are any more diners at all, so any potential future rebuilds there would require gutting another car type (expensive, no doubt). The ex-Santa Fe hi-Levels were offered for sale not too long ago, but at the time the purchaser was not announced, so I'm not sure where they wound up.

John

quote:

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Originally posted by DC2001:
I'd love to see a roster of all Amtrak owned equipment, not just in-service cars, but I've never found one.

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Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that Amtrak has sold or scrapped more of the older cars than they should have. Mass transit bureaucracies have a long history of sending "outmoded" buses, trolleys, and subway cars to the boneyard, then regretting it later -- especially once their expensive new rolling stock starts falling apart earlier than anyone expected.

But a number of Heritage diners have been refurbished. They still earn their keep and passengers seem to like them. Lots of older baggage cars are still out there. And train crews continue to snooze in pre-Amtrak sleepers.

So as a class, the Heritage cars are clearly still rail-worthy, if shop-worn. A top-to-bottom refurbishment (not band-aid stuff, but quality work) wouldn't be cheap. But it would surely cost less than building a brand new car.

If Amtrak and Gunn get the money they need, I hope they'll use it wisely and squeeze each dollar 'til it screams. After all, the cash won't be coming from "Congress," it'll be coming from all of us.

These cars are probably pretty dank inside from the humidity but I agree Amtrak should have and still should (if possible) completely refurbish some of the older cars for use. VIA Rail did a complete rebuilt of their old cars a few years ago and they are great. The old slumbercoaches would probably be useful on the Twilight Shoreliner and maybe would have fit the needs of the Silver Palm.

If Amtrak does things the way New Jersey Transit does, they purchase new equipment under "leveraged lease agreements." I have had this explained to me several times and here is how they seem to work:

-Amtrak/NJT/non-taxpaying entity orders equipment.
-Capitol lease is undertaken with a financing company owning the equipment and railroad leasing it from finance company.
-Finince company gets the depreciation on eqipment and claims it as a deduction on their income taxes. This depreciation does not help Amtrak with income taxes because Amtrak does not pay income taxes.

In the end, the old *** "depreciation" rears it's ugly head again. Because of this I think the cars can only be rebuilt once and that's it. No more depreciation, and I guess no more easy finincing allowed.

Just my guess.

quote:

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Originally posted by dilly:
But with all the talk of how badly Amtrak needs "new" equipment (Viewliners or otherwise) wouldn't it be more cost-effective for Mr. Gunn to totally refurbish a Heritage car, right down to the toilets, than build a new Viewliner from scratch?

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As to the "rebuildability" of Amtrak's remaining Heritage cars, just look at the American Orient Express equipment. The "potty" problem has been fixed, too. With enough money, anything becomes possible.

I would venture to say that Mr. Gunn's first objective, after he clears out the deadline at Beech Grove, should be a heavy rebuild of all remaining Heritage sleepers, pending their replacement by new cars (and that will take five years or more).

5 Heritage baggage dorm cars
4 Heritage slumber sleeping cars
13 Heritage 10/6 sleeping cars
6 Heritage lounges
1 Heritage table car
1 Heritage buffet grill car
1 Cab car
1 Cab car coach
32 Santa Fe High Level dorm coaches (transition cars from high level to
low level)
14 Santa Fe High Level coaches
1 Santa Fe High Level lounge
6 Santa Fe High Level diners
4 Heritage coaches (which appear to be in various states of complete
disrepair and missing parts)
19 Non-passenger ballast hopper cars

The list is part of a "think piece" you'll find at:
http://www.unitedrail.org/news/twtwtw0025.htm