Great news and I believe Notelvis first mentioned this was in the works. With three trains a day between Charlotte and Raleigh as well as significant improvements to the track, NC is doing a great job.
This is certainly where Amtrak will get its growth in the years to come. With apologies to Mr, Norman, they just need to keep the LD network going to link all the corridors that are sprouting.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Lest we forget, Mr. Palmland, I'm all in favor of expansion of Corridors where there is an adequate population base to make the service meaningful. I certainly think the NC "Research Triangle" is one such region.
Go for it, NC.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
If this works anything like the California experience, after a short while the passengers per train for the three train schedule will exceed the passengers per train for the two train schedule, as you will now have people riding that could not previously make it work in both directions with the former schedule so they skipped train riding altogether.
Here is the link to the original on the NCDOT web site. The bizjournal article is simply a slight edit of the DOT news release.
posted
Great point Palmland. There is blown opportunity for the corridor trains if there is no LD network. I have heard great things about what NC has been doing. As you probably know California has also been the model to follow in terms of corridor service. But what good is NC's corridor to me or California's corridor to you? And why should I give a rip about the NEC if no train will connect me to it??? I can't get there by rail. I continue to assert (over a few members objections) getting rid of LD's or even not expanding LD service is foolishness.
-------------------- Patrick Posts: 387 | From: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
This is very good news. Best case scenario is that we could have this new midday train just in time for Christmas.......although I would imagine the spring time change in 2009 is more likely.
Of the things North Carolina has been doing, however, I most like the fantastic renovations they have done with a number of the historic train stations in North Carolina. Greensboro, High Point, and Hamlet are my three favorites.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
The third Raleigh-Charlotte frequency is a far better use of limited funds, Mr. Desert Spirit (Mr. North Coast over at Railroad.net?). Using the SRY 1964 time of 6'30" Greensboro-Asheville plus the existing 1'30" Raleigh-Greensboro time means we are talking 8'00" Raleigh-Asheville. The Rich Kids From Sunnyvale estimate the drive time along I-40 at 3'57', which translates to "safe and sane" time, including a rest stop, of 4'45".
In short, rail is not even in the league.
Further, once West of the Corridor at Salisbury, where are the people? Yes I know Asheville is a tourist destination with wines "I die for" whenever a friend brings me a gift bottle, but that does not make for a Corridor operation.
There are better places to spend the $$$.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by DesertSpirit: Where have you gone, service to Asheville?
Where have you gone...?
I know what you mean. They need to start working on this again. I was hoping they would have this completed by 2011.
Posts: 13 | From: So Cal | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Asheville service has been studied, discussed, tabled, studied, discussed, tabled, dusted off, discussed, tabled since 1994. Yes. 1994. I was present at the meeting that year when the NCDOT folks gave us a tour of the just refurbished KCS coaches to be used on the Piedmont and breathlessly announced their plans for Asheville service since Asheville is the "most requested destination with no Amtrak service."
Without going into a lengthy discourse on the reasons this train has not gotten off the drawing board (though the passengers are here Mr Norman......the train would succeed in some form I think), I will say that a third Raleigh Charlotte service is the better investment for now.
Here's why - facilities for servicing and turning passenger trains already exist in Raleigh and Charlotte. All of the neccessary en route station facilities are already in place. The population is greater and a third frequency would increase ridership on all trains.....not just one. Millions of dollars have already been spent improving turnouts and signals on the Raleigh - Charlotte route.
But finally - the BIGGIE. The former Southern Railway tracks between Salisbury and Asheville are owned by the Norfolk Southern Corporation. The tracks currently used by the Carolinian, Piedmont, and for bits the Crescent and Silver Star are owned and have been owned by the North Carolina Railroad, an agency of the state of North Carolina who funded the route's original construction back in 1800 and whatever. This third frequency will be on rails owned by the state and leased to Norfolk Southern.....this puts the NCDOT in a much betterposition to negotiate with Norfolk Southern for the addition of an additional North Carolina passenger train.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Another stupid question for Gil -- sorry, Gil, but who are the "rich kids from Sunnyvale?" (Hmm -- Sunnyvale -- Silicon Valley, CA -- computers -- do they own stock in the auto or airline industry? -- hmmmmm -- sorry, but I am unable to make the connection between these rich kids and passenger rail)
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Hint, Mr. Kimmel (you "came out" in a recent posting)
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Hint, Mr. Kimmel (you "came out" in a recent posting)
I was assuming 'Mapquest' but even they have competition!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
OK, Gil --Google Maps, etc.? eh? How did I "come out" from a Google search -- what were you looking for?
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
David-hear anything further on extending one of the Raleigh trains through Selma to Goldsboro - and perhaps Wilmington?
Seems like it would be relatively easy to extend one of the trains the 50 miles to Goldsboro. At one point, one of the Carolina Special sections terminated there. Has NC done any work on a station there? I suspect work would be necessary on NS/NCRR track for the 20 miles from Selma to Goldsboro.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
They studied several possible routes for a Wilmington train and decided that the best option was Raleigh to Selma, down the A line through Fayetteville to Pembroke, and then to former Seaboard tracks to Wilmington.
This was kind of a doglegged route which presents a couple of major problems. In Selma the connections from NS to CSX are in the northwest and northeast quadrants. To avoid a time-consuming backup move, a new connection - wiping out a subsidized housing complex - would need to be constructed in the southwestern quadrant.
Likewise, in Pembroke the connection is in the northwestern quadrant. Passenger operations as proposed would need a new connection in the northeastern quadrant. The problem is that downtown Pembroke, not a large place to begin with, sits in the way of a connecting track in the northeastern quadrant. Needless to say, the Mayor of Pembroke is not in favor of losing a third of downtown even if it means getting an Amtrak stop in Pembroke.
The problem of going to Wilmington via Goldsboro is that there is about a 20-25 mile section of former ACL track that CSX removed just north of Wilmington about twenty years ago. This track would have to be rebuilt.
This was a couple of years ago and I have heard nothing new about the prospect of Wilmington service since.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by notelvis: The problem of going to Wilmington via Goldsboro is that there is about a 20-25 mile section of former ACL track that CSX removed just north of Wilmington about twenty years ago. This track would have to be rebuilt.
And this section includes a major bridge.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I recall seeing somewhere the question of whether NCDOT had the equipment to run the new train. If you look at www.bytrain.org/passenger/pdf/dotrailequipment.pdf you will see that NCDOT owns 8 coaches, two lounge cars, a combine, and 3 locomotives. Therefore, it looks like the equipment is in hand to have two train sets and a couple spare coaches. One thing they may be waiting on that was not mentioned is completion of the current work to restore 9 miles of second main between High Point and Greensboro that is supposed to be done sometime this year.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by George Harris: I recall seeing somewhere the question of whether NCDOT had the equipment to run the new train. If you look at www.bytrain.org/passenger/pdf/dotrailequipment.pdf you will see that NCDOT owns 8 coaches, two lounge cars, a combine, and 3 locomotives. Therefore, it looks like the equipment is in hand to have two train sets and a couple spare coaches. One thing they may be waiting on that was not mentioned is completion of the current work to restore 9 miles of second main between High Point and Greensboro that is supposed to be done sometime this year.
Work on the second track between High Point and Greensboro is not going as quickly as originally planned but it hasn't stopped altogether I understand.
Also, the CAPT email group has had some speculation that for safety sake the NCDOT would like to have one more locomotive and at least one additional lounge car in their fleet. Some discussion has even centered on trying to add a pair of second-hand 'combine' cars where half of the car would be baggage space and the other half converted to lounge space. The idea being to get all the non-revenue space confined to one car.
The trick will be locating a pair of 'combine' cars in good enough condition to rebuild. I'd suspect that there have been few if any combine cars built new in the last 50 years.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
