posted
Here is a passenger-rail history question that perhaps someone can answer that relates to a trip I took with my family way back around 1970.
We took a trip to San Antonio. The first leg of the trip was from Pittsburgh to St. Louis on the Pennsylvania RR. I remember we were able to book a bedroom for four of us.
From St. Louis we took the Missouri Pacific down to San Antonio. I remember there was no sleeper service on that segment.
My question relates to which station in Pittsburgh we departed from and arrived back into. I can not remember.
I presume it was the present Amtrak station. But, something confuses me. I remember we both departed and arrived back into Pittsburgh at night. Anyhow, on the return into Pittsburgh, (for some odd reason) I distinctly remember the conduction mentioning that we were passing through CARNEGIE. I never gave the matter any thought until years later---after I began my regular travels with Amtrak in about 1990.
So my question is this:
Did the train depart from the present Amtrak station and cross the Mon River and head out that way ? Or, did we depart from the old P and LE station over along the Mon that is now commercial property ?
If my memory serves me right, we DID depart from the present Amtrak station. But if that was the case, how did we get near Carnegie ?
Can any history "buffs" answer this question for me ?
Was there passenger track at one time that went from the present Amtrak station across the MON River directly to/from Pittsburgh ?
I have been wanting to ask this question for the longest time.
Posts: 187 | From: Pittsburgh , PA | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
Mr. Talk, you departed Pittsburgh's Penn Station, or the existing Amtrak facility. P&LE was used by the B&O as well as of course the P&LE.
I defer to others (Mr. Chieftain?) for more details, but I understand that a portion of the PRR Pgh-StL route (Penn-Texas Spirit of St Louis - and somewhere I believe I recall, but could be mistaken, was known as The Panhandle) was sold to the Pgh municipal transit authority for use as a "busway'.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Penn Central: Feb 1, 1968 to March 31, 1976
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
So am I correct in assuming that our train DID cross the Mon River and head past Carnegie ?
I know the Port Authority presently has a transit station in Carmegie that connects to downtown Pittsburgh. Unless I am mistaken, the rail-sets actually cross the Mon River into downtown.
So did the Pennsylvania RR have tracks across the Mon at one time ? I am presuming it must have, then.
I also wonder just what short course the tracks took from the old Penn Station over to the MON. Has track lay-out to/from the present station been radically changed since the old station was closed ? Because today the only tracks visible curve to the right (after departing Pittsburgh) to cross the Allegheny River and follow the Ohio River south for a short time.
So I am confused about any track that might have gone from the old station towards the Mon River.
Do those tracks still exist, or were they removed ?
Posts: 187 | From: Pittsburgh , PA | Registered: Apr 2001
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posted
In 1970, the ex-PRR station in Pittsburgh had two "sides". Tracks on the north curved to the right and crossed the Allegheny River. This was the "Ft. Wayne Line" to Chicago (also, at one time, to Cleveland and other places).
The other side of the station consisted of the tracks on the south side, against the retaining wall. These went under downtown through a tunnel, across the Monongahela River on a bridge, and then through a tunnel under Mt. Washington. This was the "Panhandle" line to St. Louis.
Conrail sold this ROW and the bridge to PAT for use as the current trolley ROW. The trolleys use the tunnel under downtown, and there is a turning loop just east of the former PRR station. You would have gone this way to St. Louis.
The line from Pittsburgh to Mingo Junction (on the Ohio River) is mostly gone, and what's left is an industrial track. Trains now run via the Ft. Wayne side to Rochester (west of Conway Yard), then via the Yellow Creek sub along the Ohio River down to Mingo Junction. West of Mingo, the former PRR ROW is owned by the state of Ohio and operated by short line Ohio Central as far west as Columbus, OH. From Columbus to Indianapolis, it is largely abandoned. From Indianapolis to St. Louis, CSX (formerly Conrail) uses the former NYC to Terre Haute and the former PRR west of Terre Haute. The ex-PRR main (the way you would have traveled) from Ben Davis tower in Indianapolis to Terre Haute is also abandoned.
Amtrak's "National Ltd" operated over the Panhandle route until 1981. Following its discontinuance, most of the Panhandle was abandoned and/or sold off by Conrail, as I have outlined.
Posts: 614 | From: Merchantville, NJ. USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Thank-you SO much for the information. It completely answers my question----so we DID pass through Carnegie ! I wasn't "crazy" after all these years !!!
I had meant to ask this question for the longest time and finally got around to doing so. I knew there was someone who had the answer.
Are the two tracks that presently seem to "dead-end" at the station the ones that continued off to the left ? One of them is used for the Pennsylvanian and one for private cars ?
So there was a total of four "through" tracks at the old Penn Station--2 curving off to the left toward the Mon and the two that curve off to the right presently ?
I can still remember some of the details of that trip. I remember Dayton and Indianapolis--and crossing the river into St. Louis.
I remember having to write down our own "orders" on the dining-car slips on the Missouri Pacific to San Antonio. I can't remember any of the food service on the Pennsylvania. I do remember that we had a bedroom , though , for four of us.
Thanks again.
JOHN
Posts: 187 | From: Pittsburgh , PA | Registered: Apr 2001
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