Oh; and if anyone need ask the meaning of "loss of consortium" here you go.
Finally, that there was a Brakeman assigned to the freight suggests that it had much local work to do on its route. Through freights can be assigned a crew consist of Engineer and Conductor only. There is a remote possibility, and I do mean remote, that this was apparently a Local freight could be a factor in the allocation of fault from the incident.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I thought it was announced from the outset that this was a local freight that ran everyday. How might this fact be a factor in allocation of fault, Mr. Norman?
Posts: 326 | From: San Antonio Texas USA | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by RR4me: Well, the suits have started. A brakeman on the freight has filed suit, along with his wife. Did they think the money would run out before they could get "theirs"?.
At the risk of stating the obvious:
Railroad employees are not covered by Workmen's Compensation. Therefore, if you are hurt on the job you must either depend upon the doubtful quantity of the "goodness of the heart" of your employer or find a lawyer.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Mr. Harris, there is no "goodness of heart" whatever under FELA. From the moment of injury, regardless of apparent fault, the employee and employer are quite simply "adverse parties".
True, the friendly railroad claim adjustor will be trying to offer an employee quick $$$ in exchange for the Release, but I think any employee with IQ sufficient to be hired and retained in railroad service knows, especially where the scope of the injury is undetermined, to accept any such offer.
What is most brutal is that an injured employee has no applicable health insurance. There is no subrogating by a health insurance carrier when the matter is settled...there is nothing....and if anyone around here has no health insurance and has needed medical attention, they know all well that health care providers can get rather "aggressive" with their collection efforts.
Finally, Patrick, if you are looking for a social injustice to rant about, first count your blessings in the not-for-profit sector you are covered by Worker's Comp, then read up on FELA and start ranting. I'll be in your corner on this one, as a dear long time friend (not a girlfriend, she's married) and railroad colleague quite simply had her life and her family "wrecked' over a FELA matter.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I concur. It is unjust. And I'm not ashamed to say that is why I do non profit work and decided sometime in my 20's to forego my dream of being an engineer.
Blessings depend on your perspective. If you view the world by comparing yourself with the 'have nots', yes, I am fortunate. Unfortunately, these are trying times in both the public and private sector. My job is dependent on funding sources/aka, political: based on state and local budgets. Mr Norman, I take it you've followed the mess out here in California in terms of the budget crisis (finally passed-88 days late)....the point I'm making is that ALL sectors of employment are vulnerable to something. There are pro's and cons to any field, and (I don't believe anyone would disagree) an injustice is injustice: regardless of the source or cause.
And in terms of Worker's Comp, I've had my issues with them as of recently, so I don't exactly consider Worker's Comp a blessing. Lets just say I ended up spending money out of my own pocket when I was released prematurely and the medical issue persisted. I ended up spending thousands. The WC doctors did so very little, that the ailment got WORSE. I filed a complaint with WC that, for what I was told, likely went straight to the shredder. I was basically stamped as a malingerer even though to that point I had only missed a single day of work over the injury and I was not asking for time off: just appropriate medical treatment since the injury DID occur on the clock.
A blessing?!?!?! Lets try workers comp reform gone WILD.
-------------------- Patrick Posts: 387 | From: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Back on topic, I ride Metrolink once in a great while and feel for this Sanchez fella. Before, we all crucify the guy, we don't know the facts as of yet. We have some pressumed facts. For all we know, prior to this tragedy, he could have been a very dedicated and skilled worker. He could have made an momentary lapse in judgement. None of us in here can, I believe, honestly say we haven't made a bad judgement or two in our jobs. But that highlights the pressure these guys are under. One lapse of judgement can cost several lives. This guy, if I'm not mistaken was in the middle of a double/split shift. Fatigue could have been a factor. But, again that's speculation.
My fear is that the traveling public will begin to look down on Metrolink employees and the service they provide. I hope the travelling public is tolerant and intellegent enough to realize that those who operate these trains are trained professionals who take their jobs very seriously. I know this must have effected the Metrolink ranks in ways we cannot comprehend. Those who utilize Metrolink need to show our confidence in them by getting RIGHT back on the trains.
-------------------- Patrick Posts: 387 | From: Bakersfield, CA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Finally, that there was a Brakeman assigned to the freight suggests that it had much local work to do on its route. Through freights can be assigned a crew consist of Engineer and Conductor only. There is a remote possibility, and I do mean remote, that this was apparently a Local freight could be a factor in the allocation of fault from the incident. [/QB]
The UP local is assigned to UP Los Angeles Service Unit with the applicable labor agreement (former SP Western Lines pact) in force. (Full disclosure: I work under this agreement.)
The job that was hit by the Metrolink train is currently bulletined for a three man crew consisting of an engineer, conductor and brakeman. By agreement, it pays a road day, or 175 miles equivalent.
I won't get into allocating fault, but the only train that had CTC authority to be on the section of track at the time of the collision was the UP crew. (Additional disclosure: I know and have in the past worked with the injured conductor)
We will wait for the final report and the tort system to shake it all out.
-------------------- Ham Radio Orange County, California Posts: 46 | From: Orange County, CA | Registered: Dec 2007
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I have not seen much information on the freight crew. Were they all in the locomotive just before the collision? Did any of them jump when they saw the Metrolink coming?
Posts: 446 | From: Phoenix, Arizona | Registered: Jul 2000
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The same tripe of "no budget" moves forth here in Illinois. While the two Social Service agencies I had in my clientele are well funded from private sources and could "weather the storm" when both the State Child Protection (DCFS) and the Human Service (DHS) departments were 'broke' account no Illinois budget, there were some small agencies providing needed service with value to the taxpayers that could not. I know of one that did not and closed its doors (I'm sure there's more to the story to which I am not privy).
But back on the rails, to Mr. Ham Radio, thanks for confirming that this UP train is by Local Agreement assigned a Brakeman, and dispelling any thoughts on my part of "don't the papers know the difference between a Conductor and Brakeman?" (it's not 'featherbedding" in my mind Mr. Ham; if there is a lot of work to do en route, I know you need that third man), but let us, all of us, defer from speculation until "the pros' do their job. The NTSB is good, and I had the privilege to know a "good man" with the MILW who left the "sinking ship' (well, derailed train) to join that agency.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Mr. Harris, there is no "goodness of heart" whatever under FELA. From the moment of injury, regardless of apparent fault, the employee and employer are quite simply "adverse parties".
Tongue was firmly in cheek on "goodness of heart"
I felt it needed to be clearly stated that the UP train crew has no recourse except legal action to cover what anyone in any other industry would expect to happen as a matter of course, that is, their employer would cover their costs in this situation.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Mr. Norman, also concerning, "health care providers can get rather "aggressive" with their collection efforts." can also be regarded as somewhat of an understatment. After a car accident that had me off work for 6 weeks some 26 years ago, I called all my creditors and had credit problems from only two sources: the hospital and Sears. The hospital set the bill to collection 30 days after bill that came after my insurance paid their share which was also a week after my doctor said I could go back to work part time. Sears responded to my call by saying your account is closed until you return to work. I had never been late or even paid only the minimum. I have lived without them since.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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posted
Heres something, the kid said he recieced that txt a minute before the crash, the crash site is 2 minutes from the last Station, a text message takes between 10 and 15 seconds to reach the reciever, and thats only if you have a good signal, it can take 30 seconds to a few minutes, so this means the last text message sent would have been sent while the train was stoped in the station, or rite before it pulled away, and since the engineer and conductor never exchanced call to confirm the last to signals before impact means there may very well be a missing puzzle piece to this incident, and wouldnt breaking the Siding switch alert the Engineer? or was he incopasatated?
as for Metrolink admitting fault, I think they paniced when they relized there driver made the fatal mistake and decided admitting fault would soften the blow when it came to pointing fingers, but now if they prove that something else was the resone the Engineer fail to stop at the signal its to late to claim innocences
posted
Wuzzup, OM and GBN, wid dis teentextese? U mkn fun of Jnthn?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Apparently, Jonathon was doing some heavy-duty railfanning the day they went over spelling in his school. No matter, GBN and I figured out the gist of his message; I still say that the NTSB may conclude that the ill-fated engineer was "incopasatated."
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Gentlemen, from my teaching years I can see that Jonathon spells by sound not by sight. That is what happened when some school systems went "overboard" and made phonics the be-all.If you read his postings that way you can see how that fits. Jonathon,if you are not just playing around may I suggest you simply use the spell check on your computer. For those of you who do not understand what I am saying try pronouncing cough and dough. Or how about too,to, and two. Or dear and dear, Then you can see why a lot of kids simply gave up.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Jonathon's spelling should not be the issue here. We all have areas where our skills are lacking, but that does not make us incompetent. We all have our little quirks, and that just makes life all the more interesting. Jonathon is knowledgeable about many subjects relevant to this board and I think he makes a valid point about the timing of the text message and the knee-jerk fingerpointing (to use a mixed metaphor) by Metrolink.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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I'm with Mr. Toy. My current version of the free Mozilla Firefox browser has "as you type" spell check when entering text. It works well on this forum without requiring any extra steps.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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I appreciate Jonathon's clear explanation of the texting time issues, and also understand it as coming from someone who knows what he is talking about first hand. I don't. And at this stage of the game have no intent to learn. Nor do I see him as stepping on the NTSB's toes here, not that he could if he wanted to. The toes of the NTSB are already deeply buried under the feet of various legislative bodies, the Calif. PUC, every reporter anywhere close, and sundry other self important loudmouths all of which probably have less understanding of what happened than Jonathon, and by their supposed experience levels should well know better than to shoot of their mouth with much of what they are saying.
Trainlady, I don't even want to begin to talk about a lot of the nonsense that passes for necessary parts of education at the current time and its relationship to knowledge useful in life.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Amen, George!!!! Frightening isn't it. The sad thing is this nonsense has been going on for so long ( in my opinion)
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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As sad as the orginial topic of this thread, humor has taken over. I consider Mr. "No-Sense-of-Humor" Norman's northerly post probably the funniest I've read hereabouts.
Until Mr. Toy trumped it:
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Toy: ...We all have areas where our skills are lacking, but that does not make us incompetent...
Yeh, baby. My "skills" at brain surgery are a little "lacking" (truth be told, I have none), but, heh, relax, and let me saw open your cranium and poke around a bit in your cerebrum.
"Lacking skills" does not make us "incompetent?" Mr. Toy, you're joking, right? If not, would you please guide me to a better dictionary. Mine defines "incompetent" as "showing a lack of skill."
But, on a serious note to you jokesters, I have a concern. And that is...
I'm not an official member of the Grammar Gestapo. Actually, I consider myself a sinner and "flaming liberal" in that area. But...I'd like to suggest to some around here that you're doing no one any favors for defending and justifying horrifically poor grammar.
Might it be better to encourage the grammatically-challenged "youngsters" to improve their skills? By continuing their formal education, or by other means. Do those of you who consistently "excuse" poor grammar also "excuse" (let's say, to your kids or grandkids) smoking (or pick your most hated vice) by pointing out "FDR" (or pick your relevant hero) did it?
Hmm---are y'all just being funny, and I got egg on my face for taking y'all seriously? If so, fine, the egg will wash off. If not, ur al a binch of frign eg heds.
Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2002
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quote:Originally posted by zephyr: As sad as the orginial topic of this thread, humor has taken over. I consider Mr. "No-Sense-of-Humor" Norman's northerly post probably the funniest I've read hereabouts.
Until Mr. Toy trumped it:
quote:Originally posted by Mr. Toy: ...We all have areas where our skills are lacking, but that does not make us incompetent...
Yeh, baby. My education and skills at brain surgery are a little "lacking" (truth be told, I have none), but, heh, relax, and let me saw open your cranium and take a look at your cerebrum.
"Lacking skills" does not make us "incompetent?" Mr. Toy, you're joking, right? If not, would you please guide me to a better dictionary. Mine defines "incompetent" as "showing a lack of skill." How does your dictionary define "incompetent." Please share.
My understanding of Mr. Toy's post, and one with which I agree, is that poor skill in one area does not equate to incompetence overall. I will admit to incompetence in hitching a team of mules to a wagon that I watched my grandfather do without pause to think, but since I was under 5 the last time I saw it because he replaced the wagon with a truck, I feel no embarassment about that form of incompetence.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: ...My understanding of Mr. Toy's post, and one with which I agree, is that poor skill in one area does not equate to incompetence overall...
Let's stipulate the obvious (to your interpretation of Toy's statement, not my read on it).
Lack of skills in a ka-zillion areas doesn't make us incompetent in other areas. That's life. That's true of all of us. A point so obvious it raises the question of "why state it?"
This all started with a humorous response, in Jonathon-lingo, that stated "let what will be a lengthy and thorough investigation play out."
Shortly thereafter, the Grammar Apologists started their predictable dance. Suddenly the "defense of mis-spelling" became the issue, rather than the point of Mr. Norman's post.
Well, I just don't care to dance that dance. But I do care to suggest to Jonathon to "improve your writing skills." By whatever means. You're young, you can do it, and it will be a life-long asset.
Posts: 445 | Registered: May 2002
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The quality of a piece of prose May be measured by knowledge the author shows About leaving infinitives to split and dribble, Or the indefatigable participle. Proper phrases, e.g. those adverbial, Prove to be a problem proverbial; Profuse punctuation (and alliteration) Prompt problems in a recitation; I have no doubt the subjective conjunction Plays some significant rhetorical function; Where to insert a semicolon Has suffered the spirit of many a solon; The dash – as distinguished from the hyphen – Ante- and pre- cedes a phrase to enlighten, Rather than splitting or joining two words Which would otherwise flee, each free as a bird.
‘Tis a burden in prose or in poems to be using Good grammar’s rules, they can be quite confusing. Although I concede: grammar that’s watched Is grammar well read, grammar top notched; Follow the rules and what one has to say Will gracefully rise like smoke o’er the fray. Still, I gratefully sighs ‘cause poetic license Exempts me from any grammatical crisis. I hope those whom my errors have thusly abused Are moved, or are touched, or dare I hope amused? Then I’ll not be chastised for guidelines discarded. Please attribute to anarchist views (held whole-hearted) My pattern and practice - and possibly worse - Of pitiful grammar, but pithful verse.
Ira
Posts: 300 | From: Denver, CO USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Good to see you back posting, Mr. Slotkin! Somewhere in the place where famous deceased wordsmiths go, Eddie Poe is smiling down on you in his macabre sort of way...must be that Halloween is drawing nigh. We needed a break from the somber Chatsworth wreck thread, anyway!
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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quote:Originally posted by zephyr: But whether it be photography, or whatever path you choose to pursue, improving your grammatical skills will only make your vocational skills more effective.
Agreed. I regularly interview candidates for jobs in my company. Any CV [resume] that contains a number of grammatical errors shows a lack of care and those CVs go straight into the recycling container. While this forum isn't anywhere near as important as applying for a job, you'd be surprised at how many recruiters these days do some private investigation of their potential candidates - and that means potentially finding posts on forums which could alter their view of a candidate.
quote:Originally posted by zephyr: I guess what I'm trying to say is it's like a drunk's friends. Though most "friends" might buy him the next one, the "best" friend might say "Hey, Dude, give your liver a break."
Wow, that's deep. I might use it myself except I wouldn't fit into the "best" friend category!
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by JONATHON: or was he incopasatated?
Incapacitated is one possible reason why nobody should be pointing fingers without fact. I believe they can tell a surprising amount from the autopsy and either rule in or rule out the possibility of involuntary incapacitation on the part of Mr. Sanchez.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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ZING! Zephyr got me, and I take a bite of humble pie. As one who makes efforts to make sure the meaning of my written words are clear, I made a huge boo-boo. Even in areas where one is generally competent, we are all subject to the stupid move now and then. Unfortunately, the same may apply to engineers and other persons responsible for public safety, so some sort of redundancy is in order, either in the form of automated back-up systems, or adopting the FAA rule of a second pair of eyes in the cockpit.
Hundreds of lives shouldn't rely on an engineer never making a mistake.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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Geoff M is absolutely correct about employment candidates being subject to checking-out on the Internet. Before I retired from my editorial job, I found myself Googling everyone who proposed to write a piece for my bailiwick. On a number of occasions certain derogatory information turned up.
Young folks need to take this to heart before posting anything on Facebook or MySpace.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Speaking for myself, my current cell phone, an LG marketed by Verizon, is reasonably "loaded out' and probably can support text messages. I know it can support video as somehow in my pocket some combination of buttons got hit and darned if there isn't some kind of image, namely of what was around, displayed on the screen (if somehow SND got pushed, I'd be in debtor's prison). While during my "56 postings and poetry" joyride last July I made about a dozen calls as well as maybe four when out East for the wedding, "that's it' for cell phone use since June after returning from the trip that had me "hooking up" with Mr. and Mrs. Train Lady.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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It has recently become apparent that skill in forming coherent and well constructed sentences is not even, in the opinion of some, a requirement for running the country.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: It has recently become apparent that skill in forming coherent and well constructed sentences is not even, in the opinion of some, a requirement for running the country.
But TSR, I still think we should build more nucular power plants. Or is that spelled/pronounced "nuclear?" (-: I'm the decider here...
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Thanx Mr.Toy, as for my theory, thats out the window, today they anounced the tex was sent only 22 seconds before the crash, they didnt say if that was the time it was sent or receieved, just that it was 22 seconds before the crash
posted
It seems as if some posters look askance at text-messaging, as if it's solely an obsession of careless youth.
For the deaf and hard of hearing who cannot use voice cell phones, texting is a lifesaver and an instrument of liberation.
A deaf Amtrak passenger at a sizable urban station, for instance, can use texting to call a taxi by texting to a a wireless relay service, which will relay the call to a taxi company.
Deaf pilots can use texting to obtain weather conditions at airports where they plan to land. (Believe me, it's not easy when thermals and gusts are tossing the aircraft like a salad.)
Deaf husbands can use texting to call their wives from cocktail lounges and tell them they're working late at the office.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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