posted
Today's National Association of Railroad Passengers internet 'Hotline' is reporting that the Boston section of the Lake Shore Limited will regain through cars and a Viewliner Sleeper in place of Business Class effective with the October 27th schedule change.
Sojourner's information pans out and I am thrilled.
You'll want to scroll about 3/4th's down the screen to the part about 'Amtrak Fall/Winter Schedule Change'.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
The 'Complimentary Cold Meal Service' sounds about as appealing as eating Play-dough though.
I would rather have a microwaved cheeseburger. I wonder why the microwaved tray meals are not being offered?
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think the complimentary cold meal refers only to the lunch meal between Boston and Albany. I don't mind a cold sandwich, and I imagine that is what it is, probably with potato chips.
But I heard some bad news; train orders is reporting that Boston got the sleepers nixed because the yard there could not handle servicing Viewliners at this time, there are no spare parts, they don't have the manpower to deal with another type of equipment, etc etc
So who knows what the story is?
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just today scheduled a trip that begins Worcester to Chicago on October 29. There was no through sleeper shown on Amtrak's website, nor was it mentioned when I made the reservation by phone. I had to do coach to Albany (no business class available anymore) and get the sleeper from Albany to Chicago, as has been the case recently. If there is to be a through sleeper from Boston, one would think that the reservation system should know about it by now.
Posts: 127 | From: Worcester, Massachusetts | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I booked the LSL Chi/Bos on Feb 6 changing in Albany to Coach and today I noticed that they booked me twice on the Albany-Boston run??? On the 7th and 8th---I was confused and called and was told to ignore the booking on the 8th. ????
On the return I desided to take the Regional #171 to NYP and LakeShore to Chicago from there just because Ive never been that way. I hope I book a sleeper all the way now.
Posts: 139 | From: myrtle creek oregon | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
And so where will the sleeper come from? This has to mean taking a sleeper from another train. Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
There will be one less NYP-CHI Sleeper line.
I still must ask who was the politico that leaned on Amtrak to make this service enhancement. Be assured there are people at 60 Mass who think the way I do: 'It's just going to cost money'.
Regarding Ms. Sojourner's point, I would not consider there is any correlation between this apparently "done deal" Lake Shore enhancement and a Sunset East restoration. The New England "Congressional caucus" has long supported Amtrak - and have wanted their "spoils' for doing so. I believe that not for New England support, Acela would be an NY-Wash operation and the electricficatio extension simply "wouldn't be'. Service East of New Haven would have been relegated to little more than that of the Springfield Shuttle.
But the Sunset East has no political patron saint and obviously no support at 60 Mass. Therefore, the "fight" is in the hearts and minds of advocacy groups, some of which appear to be quite "ad hoc" in scope.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
They may, assuming they are going through with this, just be reassigning one of the NY sleepers to the Bos section.
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Bob from MA: If there is to be a through sleeper from Boston, one would think that the reservation system should know about it by now.
There is a report at another site that Sleeper inventory will be available on Monday.
But again, consider the source.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
Alex Kummant said in an interview in PTJ that the Sunset East is dead; there's no funding or resources for it, so everyone should "Get over it".
But on the other hand, check Railnews. Congress passed a bill giving Amtrak a big increase in funding, and it looks like Bush will sign it. I don't know how much is for new equipment. But it looks like they may bring back the Pioneer and the North Coast Hiawatha. Obama voted YES!! McCain voted NO!! Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Maybe we need to put pressure on politicians to get them to put pressure on Amtrak to start up that FL to NO route again.
It doesn't need to be the same train that continues to LA. And it could end in San Antonio.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mr. Nicholson, lets review what a "lame duck" Congress has passed and a "dead duck" President reportedly will sign. The legislation is an Authorization, which is setting forth guidelines to House Committees with respect to future rail passenger , i.e. Amtrak, funding. Here is a concise primer reagrding the two terms.
However, if the House, when initiating appropriation legislation - usually known as Omnibus Spending bills, chooses to ignore the enacted Authorization guidelines (remember only the House can initiate legislation that will spend your money), the only recourse available to the citizens is at the polls.
Now regarding the two restoration "studies', this kind of pork has a way of creeping into any legislation (did you know there is a provision in the Bailout Act regarding repeal of an excise tax imposed on wooden arrows? But for those around here who find themselves "clipped' each year by the Alternative Minimum Tax, the "annual patch" is thankfully included in the Act). Numerous routes have been "studied' in the past. I still think 'Alex the K" has it on mark regarding Sunset East.
Volks, I again note "There's something happening here' regarding rail passenger service - and personally am "pleased as punch" to see such move forth. But that "something' is frequent service over predominately passenger rights-of-way (likely publicly owned) between population centers in which rail travel time can be competitive with air and auto transport. Those markets are collectively known as 'Corridors".
Finally, as dissonant as such may sound, the Bush administration could go down in history as a 'friend of LD Amtrak'. Really, when compared with Carter and Clinton administrations, comparatively little has been lost with the Three Rivers and Sunset East - and there has been an impressive gain - The Downeaster.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Finally, as dissonant as such may sound, the Bush administration could go down in history as a 'friend of LD Amtrak'. Really, when compared with Carter and Clinton administrations, comparatively little has been lost with the Three Rivers and Sunset East - and there has been an impressive gain - The Downeaster.
I call "nicest use of the term 'dissonant' on Trainweb" that I've ever seen. (Warning - I have a degree in Music and I'm not afraid to use it!)
That the Bush administration may go down as being 'Amtrak Friendly' is really ironic.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Getting back to the subject of this thread, I might note that this is Monday and Amtrak's reservation system does not yet indicate a through sleeper on the Boston/Chicago run. One post, above, cited a report that it would be added today.
Posts: 127 | From: Worcester, Massachusetts | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Bob from MA: Getting back to the subject of this thread, I might note that this is Monday and Amtrak's reservation system does not yet indicate a through sleeper on the Boston/Chicago run. One post, above, cited a report that it would be added today.
Sojourner has seen a post elsewhere and Gilbert Norman has suggested that perhaps Boston doesn't have the infrastructure in place to support turning a Viewliner sleeper yet. Things such as having extra linens on hand or technicians familiar with making a quick repair on that particular type of rolling stock.
Maybe a though sleeper will happen but maybe not be the new timetable's effective date.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I just returned from the Worcester, MA station where I picked up some tickets for a trip beginning Oct. 29. The agent there confirmed that a through sleeper was going to be added. He gave a date of Oct. 17. I thought that was odd, since the new schedules begin Oct. 27. Maybe that is the date that it will appear on the reservation system. Basically, I don't give his report any more credence than those I've seen on this forum. He did have the new system timetables, by the way, and I obtained a copy.
Even if a sleeper is added, I will still ride on the coach to Albany, at least for this trip. As DeeCT remarked on another thread, the Boston sleeper ends up at the front of the train when the two sections are joined at Albany. That sleeper is separated from the dining car then by five or six coaches and a lounge. Normally, as a train lover, I don't mind walking through the train. However, heading for an early breakfast, one has to dodge passengers headed for the rest room, legs of sleeping patrons sticking out into the aisle, etc. In contrast, the New York sleepers are right next to the diner.
Posts: 127 | From: Worcester, Massachusetts | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Even though as of a few moments ago, there remains no inventory for a 448/9 Sleeper line, I'm not prepared to say the proposal is dead, but we must acknowledge that the proposal appears lame.
I hold that to have a car that could potentially be Bad Ordered "out in Left Field" where there is no protect car available and no "on the ground' resources to make repairs other than to running gear (that is all to AAR standards), is simply not how a "play it safe" bureaucracy does things. A bureaucracy is not concerned about attaining maximum utilization from their resources, but rather having "ducks in a row' when the finger pointing starts. Hence as Mr. JP1822 has often noted here, only 39 Viewliners are "in line".
I'm still of thought that this proposed initiative moved forth at the behest of a "New England caucus politico', but if it is now dead, obviously Amtrak Operations made an effective case to set forth what could go wrong. The play it safe mentality would require a Boston "protect' car assignment.
Finally, if Amtrak were Southwest Airlines - a carrier known for high utilization of its fleet, they would look aghast at 22% (11/50=.22) revenue generating units (cars in the case of Amtrak, aircraft for SW) not in line. But Southwest is not a bureaucracy, but rather a passenger carrier that apparently still engenders a "scrappy' management culture that prevailed when they started life on the eve of air transport "Dereg" as a Texas intrastate carrier - and a fleet of three aircraft.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I was looking at the fall job bulletin, and there are still 3 sleepers operating out of NYP on 49/48. This seems to make it even less likely there will actually be a Bos sleeper...
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
The reservation system still does not show a through Boston-Chicago sleeper at any time in the near future. It does seem to indicate, however, that there will be through coaches after the new schedule begins (rather than changing trains at Albany/Rensselaer). Such a set-up would presumably allow for a sleeper to be added whenever equipment and maintenance facilities might allow it.
I'll be traveling on the train in a couple of weeks and will report any information I might pick up on board.
Posts: 127 | From: Worcester, Massachusetts | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Out of curiosity I checked the LSL(48) I am taking on Nov 25 - no sleeping accommodations offered on 448 that day.
-------------------- My new "default" station (EKH) has no baggage service or QuikTrak machine, but the parking is free! And the NY Central RR Museum is just across the tracks (but not open at Amtrak train times. . ..) Posts: 337 | From: Goshen, IN | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I booked EUG/BOS for 4 Feb 09 last month they offered Business Class for the Albany/Boston portion. I see now that there isn't a business class offered on that run.
Posts: 139 | From: myrtle creek oregon | Registered: Jul 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Strangely enough, I just received current Atk employee newsletter in mail. It has article regarding fall time change, and quotes Barbara Bruce, senior scheduling officer as saying "the big service change is the restoration of through Boston-Chicago coaches and sleepers on the LSL"
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Wife and I just returned Thursday AM from a NYP to CLE run on the LSL. Had a long conversation with the conductor in the lounge car and she noted that sleeper service would begin soon between Boston and Albany. As to the discussion re: equipment, I would note that wife and I were the only people in our 4910 sleeper from NYP to Albany. There were two other sleepers on the train as well as three coaches and they were not full. When we arrived in Albany there were a hoard of people boarding our car and the other two sleepers. Perhaps the extra sleeper can be found on the regular LSL run. (Taking the "extra" sleeper off the NYP to Albany and back and placing it on the Albany-Boston and back run. Seemed to be several Viewliner cars and locos in the Albany Amtrak shops when we passed by. Had a great time on our CLE-CHI-NOL-NYP-CLE five day tour. Will have a trip report later. Railroad and Mrs. Bill lovin' Amtrak
Posts: 87 | From: Ohio | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
The October 17th NARP hotline reports that through cars will return to Boston with the time change BUT that the planned sleeper will be 'delayed'.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
On my recent Adirondack trip (about which I will post shortly), I met an Amtrak employee out of Boston, and he said that he had heard talk about the sleepers being reinstituted but that those plans fell through. Whether that is something permanent or just means there will be the "delay" you mention, I don't know. . .
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Even the most avid NARP "disciple" around here must acknowledge that something happened to derail this proposed service enhancement.
Some politico wanted it; Amtrak initially said "yes sir". However, the operational problems - some of which based upon my knowledge of railroad operations I have outlined here - eventually overrode what the politico wanted.
There even may have been a problem with the displacement of jobs at the New York base and giving the work to Chicago. Potentially there are some 18 jobs that could be affected (TAS, TAC, LSA, X 3 sets X 2 sides) and possibly NY was not willing to give them up without a fight.
Or maybe Chicago' s list of Extra employees is so thin that they would have to go to the street and hire 20 or so new on-board people - and have to train them "on the quick'.
These are issues with which either a railfan or even an industry observer (that means me) do not have all the first hand details to ascertain why the enhancement did not move forth as scheduled.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Acknowledged.......believe it when you see it....not before.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
IMO, the real key here is Amtrak's staffing philosophy. Appropriate staffing would be needed for OBP, track [cut-in/out]crews, and maintanence/trainkeeping crews to work the train and the Chicago and Boston ends. As long as Amtrak still says there are no cars, then they do not need to staff them. Amtrak can keep jamming as many passengers into fewer cars, charge more and make more [but not enough] money for providing passenger rail service [or 'railroading' more passengers, whichever way you look at it]. IMO, bite the bullet, hire more staff, repair more cars and take the entire Chicago-Boston route and make it a separate run straight through. Instead of leaving Boston at 12N, leave at 12M, arriving, instead of 945p, arrive at 945a. Returning at 10a, not 10p, arriving at 945a, 945p. Might save some time at Albany and cut times even. Best of all, for you Buckeye fans [from my Wolverine POV], Ohio would have some daytime, daylight exposure and the new train could change some travel patterns in Ohio. OK, IMO this touches a lot of nerves, so here's your chance to 'rail on.'
Posts: 39 | From: Detroit, MI, USA | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
OH!OH!, my prior post had an error I meant to say:
Boston to Chicago arriving at "945p,"[not 945a], returning w/arrival in Boston at "945a [not] 945p." The consist, of course would be full service, coach, Viewliners, dinner
Posts: 39 | From: Detroit, MI, USA | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
While I am sure those in Ohio would be happier, your suggested schedule does not allow for same day connection with the Western LD trains.
With the price of hotel rooms in Chicago,not what I want.
Fine for those who are antsy about missing connections, but as often as I have traveled the westbound LSL, I have only missed my connection in Chicago once. (That was due to a freight derailment in upstate NY. It mattered not,however, since the CZ was also canceled due to severe snow storms in the Rockies. Amtrak paid for my overnite lodging).
Dee
Posts: 460 | From: North Central CT | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
How about if they use a superliner from Boston--it doesn't go thru NYC. Or are the superliners too high in Boston too, because of the underground/Back Bay portion?
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ms. Sojourner, here is a report appearing at another site describing the operation of a Dome car (of same design as those assigned to the Canadian) into Boston (I'll take responsibility for any copyright infringement that has occurred):
quote:Gil Norman's recollection is correct - a test train was operated with a short dome from Rensselaer to Boston in 1990 or thereabouts. I was GM of CR's Albany Division at the time, and the test was requested by the late W. Graham Claytor, Jr.
At the time, CR had completed a clearance improvement project for handling of enclosed multilevel auto carriers between Post Road Crossing (CP 187) and Framingham (CP 22). Our standard for the clearance of passing equipment "to strike" was four inches.
The test train was operated eastbound, with no problems until we were east of Beacon Park Yard, at the overpass for Beacon St. (IIRC), where the clearance was about two inches under the bridge. This was anticipated in advance, by reference to existing clearance data.
The usual solution would have been to lower the track, but there was an adjacent undergrade bridge which carried the flow from the Back Bay Fens to the Charles River and this structure could not be lowered without impairing the necessary flow in that stream.
Clearances were "tight" but passable through the remainder of the route east and through "CP COVE" (end of CR), where I left the train. I believe the train operated over the wye connection toward South Bay, without ever heading into South Station.
For the return, the dome was handled in #449 and "walked" under the Beacon St. overpass.
As Tom Nelligan has pointed out, domes were later handled in the Lake Shore Ltd., but only west of Rensselaer
I realize you have graciously noted here at the Forum you do not hold any expertise with regard to railroad operations, but I think even a layman less informed than yourself could ascertain that such is simply not reasonable and practical in daily operation.
In addition to the clearance issue, Superliners cannot handle passengers at a station with high level platforms; both Back Bay and South Station are so equipped. While Amtrak has operated Superliners into Phila 30st (Caternary; hi-level platforms), such was for a travel agent equipment display. At either end of the Superliner display there was a T-Dorm and a single level Coach to enable access from the Hi-Level platform to the display set.
Trust this explanation will suffice.
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
As I recall, the B&O domes (coach and sleeper) operated from Washington to Chicago. I don't recall the restriction, maybe Washington Union Terminal, but they had lower clearances than other domes in operation. For a time, the sleeper dome operated on the Floridian (and earlier on the Florida Special).
I suspect they would fit into Boston. Amtrak just needs to dig out the specs and order a few when placing their next equipment order for the eastern trains.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks DeeCT for the comments, but.... we must not make too much of the coast to coast connection. There are a lot of connections to be made on the right side of the [Mississippi] river. Let's not turn that "round 'em and head 'em out" of Chicago mentality [remember the stockyards] into a fetish. Besides why not put a night owl out of Chicago also that turns nights into daylight for our Plains and Mountains brothers and sisters.
Another topic, the domes! Count me in on making, rebuilding, saving, restoring, whatever and whereever more domes and put them on Amtrak in the East. I remember coming out of DC to Chicago with a single level dome [not Superliner]. What a great way to catch the sunset out of DC and the sunrise through Indiana.
Posts: 39 | From: Detroit, MI, USA | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
"Straight from the horse's mouth"; here is a paste from the Oct 27 Lake Shore "timecard":
Services on the Lake Shore Limited® ® Coaches: Reservations required. s Sleeping cars: Viewliner sleeping accommodations - Amtrak’s Metropolitan Lounge/ClubAcela available in Chicago, New York and Boston for Sleeping car Service passengers. r Dining: Casual service offering complete meals and appetizers with an all day menu on Trains 48 and 49 between New York and Chicago. Not available between Albany and Boston; Sleeping car passengers will receive complimentary cold meal service. y Lounge: Sandwiches, snacks and beverages. Combined Diner/Lounge provides food and beverage service between New York and Albany. Smoking is prohibited.
It would appear that the Timetable writers seem to be of thought that there is a Boston Sleeper.
Incidentially, while I hold this is the most painless way to obtain a System Timetable, it is neverthelass available for download. However, the file is 9.27 Megs, which I would think could be a problem for those having only dial-up (as was my case until June '07).
Posts: 9977 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I went down to the Worcester station today to check out the LSL-Boston Section, its first run on the new Fall schedule. I will be boarding it on Wednesday. The consist of passenger cars was as follows: Two Amfleet II coaches (25091, 25047), one Metroliner Coach (44709) and an Amfleet I Club dinette (converted) (48170). There was no sleeper. The conductor offered the information that the sleeper would appear in two weeks or less. We'll see.
The presence of the dinette was unexpected, as the timetable does not indicate that. Its position at the rear is probably to facilitate its removal at Albany/Rensselaer before connection with the New York section, which normally has its own cafe and dining car.
The station attendant at Worcester is relatively new to Amtrak. He had no information - said they "don't tell him anything." The train left Worcester about 10 minutes late.
Posts: 127 | From: Worcester, Massachusetts | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Tell me no secrets and I'll tell you no lies!
The new timetable which I received in the mail this past week does seem to suggest that a sleeper to Boston may be forthcoming.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Atk's weekly employee news update this week indicated " thru sleeper svc. to Bos coming soon..." Also the lounge on the Bos section runs thru to Chi and is not removed in Albany. As to whether it remains to be a split club, I would rather doubt...
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
| IP: Logged |
When I watched the train on Tuesday, all the passenger cars were different ones than on Monday, including the lounge. That would seem to confirm your statement that the lounge runs through to Chicago along with the coaches.
I will be riding the train today.
Posts: 127 | From: Worcester, Massachusetts | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
