posted
Just returned from trip to Minnesota. Amtrak personnel on the Lake Shore Limited are now saying that the Boston sleeper will not be added until at least January. Again, we can take that information for what it's worth.
I will post a report on my trip at a later time.
Posts: 127 | From: Worcester, Massachusetts | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
NARP, in an email a day or two ago, now says that the sleeper to Boston, while still planned, will be delayed in getting started.
That seems consistant with Bob's information above.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
I'll be on the LSL on November 25 & ask about the Boston sleeper then.
-------------------- My new "default" station (EKH) has no baggage service or QuikTrak machine, but the parking is free! And the NY Central RR Museum is just across the tracks (but not open at Amtrak train times. . ..) Posts: 337 | From: Goshen, IN | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have vivid memories of riding the NEW ENGLAND STATES (late 40s/early 50s) between Springfield, MA and Chicago. The New York Central put a lot of pride in that train, and it showed. Full complement of sleepers, coaches, lounges and diners. I can remember climbing the crest of the Berhshires east of Pittsfield behind both steam and diesel, and it seemed as though every New England college student was headed for the midwest. The B&A had a solid double-track line the whole way, and the Albany stop was quick and brief. Great memory of the NYC in its heyday!
Posts: 87 | From: Snowmass, CO USA | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
Do you think that you could write up some of those memories as a trip report for me? If so, I'll post it as an accompaniment to a schedule for the New England States from that time period.
-------------------- --------Eric H. Bowen
Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past! Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I went to the Worcester station on Tuesday November 18. The Lake Shore Limited #449 arrived 30 minutes late without a sleeper.
Posts: 9 | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Some have predicted that Boston may not have "parts" to service the Viewliners and that's leading to the "delay." However, Boston South Station is also unique in that it doesn't really service P42 Genesis locomotives every day either.
I am not sure if totally give into this "service" argument, nor should Boston's maintenace department necessarily be dictating what equipment it can and can't handle.
Sunnyside Yard, NY is sort of the hub of the Viewliners. It certainly must have some Viewliner sleeper parts. And it's not like the Viewliner parts are across the country. I am not saying that Amtrak should be shuttling parts from Sunnyside Yard to Boston to fix any Viewliners, but this could happen under extreme circumstances.
However, I am still not convinced that the Boston sleeper of the Lake Shore Limited should operate without putting overnight sleeper service back on the NEC - which would require an additional two Viewliners into operation. For example Amtrak would have to run 41 Viewliners out of its 50 Viewliners, than its current 39 out of 50 Viewliners.
To me, the operation of these two services may best be operated in tandem. There wouldn't be any "same day" turns of the equipment. The Viewliners would have to swapped out in the morning for servicing at Boston - in order to get back to Sunnyside Yard via the Lake Shore Limited , but it would allow Boston to service Viewliners from two routes rather than one.
Posts: 337 | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
How about overnight sleeper service on the NEC but start the trains further south?
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Anyone care to query up BOS to CHI itinerary April 4 or later and note what is returned?
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I did Mr. Norman. I also checked the fares BOS/CHI and NYP/CHI. A bedroom NYP/CHI is twice the price of one BOS/CHI. Finally something costing less in New England. Best regards, Rodger
Posts: 112 | From: Merrimac, MA | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Anyone care to query up BOS to CHI itinerary April 4 or later and note what is returned?
According to Amtrak's website, on the 2nd of April/09 a viewliner sleeper was available Chicago to Boston showing fares of $184 for a roomette and $370 for a bedroom. On the 3rd a roomette is $369 and a bedroom $741. On both the 4th and 5th the roomette was $369 and the bedroom $370. These fares are certainly all over the place. How can a bedroom on one day be only one dollar more expensive than a roomette and the next day $372 more expensive?
There were no sleepers showing for the 1st of April or earlier. So does this mean that Amtrak is really going to restore a sleeping car between Chicago and Boston, or is this a (few days late) April fool's day joke?
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well Mr. Royal, in view of the 'false starts" regardiong this service enhancement, I cannot rule out your final thought.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, now I will certainly try to go down to the Worcester station and watch the train coming from Boston on April 4th to confirm the adding of the viewliner sleeper. That's the first day it appears as an option on the westbound LSL.
Posts: 127 | From: Worcester, Massachusetts | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
It occurs to me that this is a HUGE business decision on Amtrak's part that I don't quite understand. In addition to having to have a maintenance facility in Boston to handle the sleeper, there will now have to be a switching operation in ALB to connect the 2 trains which is what we had 10 years ago and was eliminated to save $$$. In another thread, SunsetLTD has outlined an itinerary that includes going from Boston to Chicago. He rightly realises that he doesn't need the sleeper until ALB so he's planning on going coach BOS-ALB. Makes pretty good sense to me, so why IS Amtrak adding the sleeper on 448/9?
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by TBlack: It occurs to me that this is a HUGE business decision on Amtrak's part that I don't quite understand. In addition to having to have a maintenance facility in Boston to handle the sleeper, there will now have to be a switching operation in ALB to connect the 2 trains which is what we had 10 years ago and was eliminated to save $$$.
It is not really a huge switching issue. They merely run out of Chicago with the Boston section up front and the NY section on the rear. At Albany the train splits in two and the P42 take the Boston section to Boston. They then put the dual-mode on the NY section and way it goes.
I guess 49/449 is a little more involved (backing the Boston section to the front of the NY section), but nothing real complex.
Posts: 33 | From: Amarillo, Tx | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks Printman. Another of our members here said the following at another forum:
I wonder what "politico" up Boston way leaned on Amtrak to make this possible service enhancement - especially if the Sleeper and X-Country Dining service come to pass? I cannot imagine of Amtrak's own initiative inaugurating any such changes as they are clearly subordinating operational efficiency to passenger amenities.
In addition to the obvious of additional switching costs at Albany, having a scarce Sleeper possibly being Bad Ordered 'way out in Left Field', requirement to stock and maintain Bed Linens at a facility at which there is presently no need, there will also be a requirement to stock additional Food items at the Boston commissary to provision the X-Country menus.
Again, if there is any foundation to these observations and reports, it is a safe bet that "someone's leanin' on 'em"; the big question will be "who".
I'm hesitant to attribute the quote, because I did "borrow" it from another discussion. But it does seem to capture the business issues.
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
Now that Boston has its sleeper returned, why not a sleeper on the Federal? Surely Amtrak could run a sleeper up from New York which could connect with the Lake Shore. Perhaps a same day connecion would be too tight, but eventually the sleeper would need to go to New York for servicing, so why not restore the Federal?
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mr. Royal, even if an assignment such as NYP-49(1)-CHI-448(2)-BOS-67(3)-WAS-66(4)-BOS-449(5)-CHI-48(6)-NYP could be established and the turns at Boston be made without delay, the one additional car required could well be the straw to break the camel's back.
Bureaucracies are not Southwest Airlines; their stock in trade is playing it safe, and such an aggressive assignment is not in the playbook. There surely would be a protect car assigned to Boston.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
On the Lakeshore Ltd I took back from Chicago a few days ago, there were 2 sleepers, then a dining car, then 2 or 3 more coach cars all heading to NYC while a lounge/snack car (for those of you familiar only with Superliners, I am speaking only of the one-level regular Viewliner lounge/snack car) with I believe just passenger car adjoining it (and a luggage car? sorry I forgot to look) were delinked at the 'Y' just before entering the Albany Rensselaer station and heading to Boston. After they delinked, the Boston "shuttle" pulled into the station on a different track from the NYC-bound LSL; Boston-bound passengers in sleepers (or the NYC coaches, if there were any there--I was up by sleepers and did not see) got off in the Albany-Rensselaer station and crossed the tracks to board the Boston-bound "shuttle." More than one Amtrak employee on the LSL told me that a Boston-sleeper was going to be added probably some time in April, which would be part of the delinked cars sent on to Boston too!!!
I did not ask about this, but given the equipment shortage, I wondered afterward--assuming they are really reinstating the Boston sleeperas I was told--if the sleeper service might perhaps be seasonal, taken off a Florida sleeper for the warmer season, when the LSL is busier and trains to FL are less busy.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Interesting observations you made, Ms. Sojourner.
From such, it appears that #448's cars handled on the rear of #48 are cut at the yards immediately after X-ing the Hudson yet North of the Depot. 448 and 48 then make their station stops at ALB as separate trains.
Since last I knew, the two P-42 units from #48 handles #448 onward to BOS, and a single P-32ACDM handles #48 onward to NYP, presumably that change is also made at the yards (Maintenance Facility in Amtrakese).
This handling certainly makes sense, and while I can't be certain, a yard engine may not be needed. It appears that the whole operation is a "cut the Boston power', "back the NY power down", "pull the pin on the Boston cars", "back down the Boston power",,,and highball.
Regarding your thoughts that the Boston Sleeper may only be seasonal, time will tell. I still will be interested to learn what "pol" leaned on Amtrak to make this service enhancement, as I highly doubt the initiative to do so originated @ 60 Mass.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
We all knew about it, but today it's official. Note new departure times in this handout from Amtrak Media Relations:
SLEEPING CAR SERVICE TO BE RESTORED BETWEEN BOSTON AND CHICAGO
Eastbound Lake Shore Limited to depart Chicago an hour earlier; Ridership for the route is up 1.9% since October 2008
BOSTON and CHICAGO – The Amtrak Lake Shore Limited will offer sleeping car service between Chicago and Boston to better suit our passengers needs, starting with the eastbound departure of Trains 48/448 on April 2 from Chicago and the westbound departure of Trains 49/449 from New York and Boston on April 4. The eastbound Train 48/448 will depart Chicago an hour earlier than the existing schedule, also effective on April 4. The restoration of sleeping car service provides a higher level of comfort than can be provided in coach for passengers riding to and from Boston (South Station) and the Massachusetts stops of Framingham, Worchester, Springfield and Pittsfield. Until now, Bay State passengers were required to change trains in Albany-Rensselaer, N.Y., to ride to and from points in Western N.Y., Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana and Illinois, including Buffalo, Erie, Cleveland, South Bend and Chicago.
“Our Lake Shore Limited service continues to post ridership gains and these changes are aimed to better serve our passengers needs by further improving their travel experience to and from Boston,” said Carol Gambrel, Director, Product Management.
The Lake Shore Limited is one of six trains that are getting an intense focus to improve revenue, ridership, and to drive customer service improvements across the Amtrak system.
“We continue to rely on customer and employee feedback to enhance service on routes across the Amtrak system, and the Lake Shore Limited is a prime example of what can be achieved by listening to and acting upon suggestions from both groups,” said Emmett Fremaux, Vice President of Marketing & Product Management, who heads the Route Performance Improvement program. Schedule Changes
As part of this change, the eastbound Train48/448 will depart Chicago at 9:00 p.m., local time, and most timing will change across the route (schedule attached), effective April 4. Amtrak will continue to open the Dining Car for a pre-departure Welcome Aboard reception that is complimentary to sleeping car passengers who are pre-boarded at 8:00 p.m., while coach passengers will find the Lounge Car open as they board.
There is a also a slight change to the schedule of Train 49, the westbound Lake Shore Limited, as it arrives in Albany-Rensselaer, due to track work on the Metro North Commuter Railroad, north of New York City.
Ridership
In figures for the five months ending Feb. 28, 2009, 130,352 passengers rode on the Lake Shore Limited, an increase of 1.9 percent from the same period a year earlier. Ticket revenue is up by more than $844,000 and is in excess of $9.1 million for the five months that begin the current Amtrak fiscal year.
Amtrak ridership for overnight trains is also up for the Oct. 2008-Feb. 2009 period. The total of 1,628,631 passengers is an increase of seven percent from the year-ago figure and includes double-digit increases for several routes on the national network.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Is that message saying there will be a diner AND a lounge car on the LSL? That will be something new - I don't remember there being both in the consist when I've taken this train in recent years.
-------------------- My new "default" station (EKH) has no baggage service or QuikTrak machine, but the parking is free! And the NY Central RR Museum is just across the tracks (but not open at Amtrak train times. . ..) Posts: 337 | From: Goshen, IN | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
There was a diner and a lounge car when I was on it a couple of weeks ago (although the Boston sleeper had not yet been added). The diner was just behind the sleepers. The lounge car was behind some coaches, and in front of the Boston coach. I believe that lounge car travels with the Boston coach (and will travel with reistated Boston sleeper) all the way to Boston. I imagine some sort of dinner might also be afforded sleeper passengers to Boston, even if their arrival time is now an hour earlier--but I'm not sure. I don't think dinner is offered to NYC bound passengers--it gets in around 7:30 there (but that will be earlier too with the new departure time).
I like the 9pm departure time better than 10 (and hopefully all western trains will be in by then, though you never know with the Zephyr!)
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
I have ridden the LSL many times. Both from Springfield, MA to Cleveland (Daur lived near there for quite awhile) and also through to Chicago for trips out west.
I have never ridden this train when there was not both a Diner and a Lounge car. Have always had Dinner in the Diner (and sometimes Breakfast when going the distance to Chicago).The Lounge car has been the source for many cups of coffee. Back in the day it also was a smoking lounge for those so addicted (reformed smoker here).
I too applaud the earlier departure from Chicago, only because it means reaching home and hour earlier. (I am usually already asleep when the train pulls out of Chicago.)
Nice to know that Amtrak has paid attention to the questionaires they sent to those of us that rode the LSL Boston section over the past few years. The return of the sleeper car from Boston through to Chicago will be well received by many of us.
Dee
Posts: 460 | From: North Central CT | Registered: May 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
As of a few moments ago, there remains space open on the maiden voyage of the 448(02) Sleeper line. Of interest, the rate for a Roomette and Bedroom are within $1.00 of one another.
That's supply and demand pricing for you!!
WW maiden voyage 449 (04) is also open; however at this time such is considerably more pricier than EW.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Watch out; one of the two Bedrooms on EW 448(02) will sell and the rate will jump to that in the range of that prevailing for 449(04).
Hopefully that will be as a resuilt of someone here choosing to do a joyride in a Bedroom at a Roomette rate.
Ain't a gonna be me as I'm "tapped out' of both travel desire and $$$ ($2372.70 of 'em lest anyone curious, but worth every penny of such) after completing my "six days on the road and I'm a gonna make it home tonite".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
At 5:30 pm CDT the $369/$370 spread for 448 (2) still obtained. All right, which of us is going to spring for the joyride?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: At 5:30 pm CDT the $369/$370 spread for 448 (2) still obtained. All right, which of us is going to spring for the joyride?
I'm in need of such a joyride BUT since positioning myself for it would mean flying to Chicago......well.......there goes the bargain, no?
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's still $369/$370 as of 9:11 am CDT Tuesday 3/31. Hmm . . . if those remaining bedrooms on 448 (2) aren't sold by, say, 4 pm Thursday 4/2, will Amtrak drop the price?
I'm tempted, I'm tempted. But it might be very expensive to get back to Chicago from Boston, unless the ride is the Big Dog . . . ugh.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
As of a few moments ago, Mr. Kisor, there are, IMHO, "attractive" One Way KBOS to KORD fares (save a 5PM flight) available on UA departing Apr 4. Returning on "arf-arf" would certainly remove any "joy" from the "ride'.
However, should you go, remember no corkscrew to serve EW libations other than one you are prepared to allow TSA to add to their collection.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know about all this "maiden voyage" talk. Let me point out that there was a through sleeper from Boston on the LSL for most of the time I have been riding that train (since 1986). It was taken off I think sometime in late 2004, and therefore has only been gone for less than five years!
Posts: 127 | From: Worcester, Massachusetts | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
You of course have a point, Bob; likely the term "restoration" should be substituted for "maiden voyage".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Rail Sale is over; while as of a few moments ago a Bedroom is still available, check the rate BOS to CHI on 449(04).
Also, have some smelling salts handy.
"Restoration Run" starts tonight with 448(02).
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
That fare shows imagination! I was looking ahead to the middle of the month and notice that in either direction the ALB/REN to Boston portion is by bus. Is there maintenance going on then?
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
Brief passage (gottaluv Amtrak spokesman Mr. Rosenwald's analogy):
"We're going after a different market than those people who might fly," said Brian Rosenwald, Amtrak's chief of product management. "We are catering to a leisure market where people might be interested in the advantages of train travel, which would include a day away from day-to-day aggravation, a chance to see the countryside, and enjoy freshly prepared meals - kind of a minicruise concept on land, rather than on sea."
As of a few moments ago, both Roomettes and Bedrooms remain available for the "restoration run" 449 (04); while the Roomette rate remains "attractive'...uh "let's not go there' regarding the Bedroom.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Today I was able to inspect #449 when it stopped at Worcester and I can confirm that the Boston sleeper has indeed been restored to that train. The consist was as follows: engine, baggage car, Viewliner Sleeper # 62006 (College View), Coaches #25057 and #25123 and Dinette #53509. A couple boarded the sleeper here, but it otherwise looked fairly empty.
If anyone on the forum keeps track of Amtrak's rolling stock, perhaps you can determine where they got that sleeper (and the others required to equip this train). It must have come from some other route's inventory, unless the program to rebuild damaged cars is well underway.
Posts: 127 | From: Worcester, Massachusetts | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
There are now only two Sleeper lines on 48-49 as one was reassigned to 448-449.
Reportedly there is one Viewliner presently out of service account wreck damage; such arose from the recent Lake Shore derailment incident near South Bend. It appears damage was minor and there should not be any reason the car won't be returned to service.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
So you're saying that there were 3 sleepers to NYP and they took one of those to go to Boston and 2 to New York. Which means no change in the consist from Albany west to Chicago? I'm slow and need to take small steps.
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
