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Our fifth attempt in 14 months to take a trip to Gaspé by train was successful. To be fair, it was not VIA’s fault that we could not make it the previous four times and we were fortunate to be able to postpone our trip before leaving home on the last three attempts and avoid the horrid experience of what VIA euphemistically calls “alternate transportation” for four hours, maybe eight hours and possibly even overnight. Although I have made it to Gaspé before, it was the first successful trip for my wife and son.
For the last three attempts we had planned on staying two days and had booked three hotel rooms and a car hire for the five in our group. After accumulating a stack of reservations and cancellations we decided instead to do a same-day return. Although we were an hour and a quarter late out of Matapédia, we made up time and were only 35 minutes late by New Carlisle. Thus, with there being no snow on the tracks, no washouts or landslips, no leaves on the rails, no shortage of crews, no mechanical problems, no serious lateness, etc., VIA had no option but to run the train to its destination.
There was a third Château sleeper on our train and, although it was in service, there appeared to be no passengers in it in either direction. The crew availed themselves of the three bedrooms and drawing room. The equipment was in fairly good shape, but our friend’s sleeper ahead of ours had a lot of toilet problems and at one point the crew said they might have to relocate everyone to the third sleeper. But the toilets were eventually put back in working order. Our sleeper’s toilet system shut down for only an hour.
With the pleasant crew and good (and cheap) food in the Skyline diner it was an enjoyable trip. It being the beginning of April, there was much snow about, even as high as the dome in places, but it was melting rapidly. We were the only five sleeping car passengers to go all the way to Gaspé and there were two or three in coach. Our sleeping car attendant says that is not unusual outside of the summer tourist season. Sometimes there are no passengers at all, he said. On the return trip there were maybe three or four others in sleepers and the same in coach. But passengers entrained or detrained at all the stops along the route between Gaspé and Matapédia so there was quite a reasonable load. I suspect the unreliability of this train has had an effect on its business at the end point. While many Canadian railfans think bustitutions for any reason VIA wishes are just “ducky,” local Gaspésians don’t share that attitude. (I guess more Gaspésians should be railfans.) There was a recent article in Le Soleil quoting locals saying they are fed up with the Chaleur “because it does not run more often than it does run.” There are two daily round-trip Air Canada flights on small DASH8s in and out of Gaspé. I did a random check of seating plans and found that on most days between 70 and 74 passengers arrived and departed Gaspé every day. It seems if it wasn’t for the residents of smaller centres along the line who have no access to air service and the occasional rail enthusiast this train would have no future outside the tourist season. A nasty storm that washed out a small bridge last August didn’t do much for the tourist business on this train as it took seven weeks to reopen the line. Then there were more weather-related problems in the autumn.
As we approached Matapédia on our return trip, the crew told us that the “Ocean” was two hours late and we would of course have to wait for it. We were also told this was a regular occurrence and that we should expect to lose a further two hours overnight and therefore expect to be four hours late into Montreal. In fact we made up an hour overnight and arrived in Montreal only one hour late and easily made our connection to Toronto.
The Chaleur is a splendid train on a very scenic route. It is one I would like to travel on more often. But until it runs more reliably, I will be thankful that we made it this time. Most people would not have given it a fifth chance. My wife made it clear she had no interest in a sixth attempt if this trip hadn’t worked out.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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Glad to hear David that your trip went so well. I recall an attempt I made last year on a journey to Gaspe only to be removed from the train a few stops away, put on a bus and sent back to a rail point where I spent an overnight trip in a lounge car as the promised sleepers were nowhere to be seen. I personally would not ever try that train again.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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Glad the trip worked out this time, David. I enjoyed the trip report greatly. It makes me sad to read of the Chaleur's woes as I made 3 roundtrips between 1991 and 2001. It is indeed the most scenic train ride in the eastern part of North America and the Chateau sleepers are a treat. (My first trip was in a Manor car one way and a blue "E" series sleeper the other before those were scrapped.) The last trip had the Skyline dome which offered a great view of the line. I hope to return someday if the train is on more reliable footing.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
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David, I don't suppose there's any way of knowing whether the Chaleur is running to its end point when making a reservation for it?
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by TBlack: David, I don't suppose there's any way of knowing whether the Chaleur is running to its end point when making a reservation for it?
If there is a major disruption, such as a wash-out, VIA will have that information in the computer. But if the train is running late (it's always late, the service manager told me!) it may be short-turned at New Carlisle. The degree of lateness is not carved in stone, but a recent report on a Canadian site had a trip report from a young chap who was a mere two hours late, so that was the end of the line. There have been many other reports of the short-turning for being two hours late. Then there are other problems like too much snow, rain, autumn leaves, etc.,which of course cannot be predicted in advance.
It was reported that about a week ago the dining car on the Renaissance-equipped Ocean had an axle problem, so most of the train (service car, diner, sleepers) was detached and left in Matapédia. The Chaleur was discontinued there, the passengers put on a bus or buses to Gaspé and the Chaleur was added to the Ocean. Even worse for Gaspé passengers was a recent problem with the Ocean at Saint-Hyacinthe, a mere 54 kilometres from Montréal. The Renaissance equipment was left there, the Chaleur’s passengers evicted from their train and put on buses – yes it’s overnight to Gaspé - and the Chaleur became the Ocean to Halifax. It was not reported if all the Ocean’s passengers could be accommodated on this small train and, if not, what happened to those for whom there wasn’t space.
The first time I took a trip up the Gaspé peninsula was a way back when the CNR was still running it. They used two consists which met west of Gaspé so there was no tight turn-around with the one consist that VIA uses.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
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VIA's Chaleur is an ineresting train for sure. We were around two hours late into New Carlisle, on one of my trips heading out to Gaspe, and we kept on going all the way out to Gaspe! No short turning. I kept asking the service manager and he said "nope we are heading all the way to Gaspe as ususal." That comment came in June 2007.
Actually of all my three Chaleur trips in the past two years, I've never experienced a short turning at New Carlisle, even with this one time of being two hours late at New Carlisle. On another occasion we were about an hour late and another somewhat on time. So I sort of had a mix, but been lucky to venture out to Gaspe via train all the way.
On the occasion that we were two hours late into New Carlisle, I was absolutely amazed at VIA's handling of this train once it arrived into Gaspe, which was actually only about 40 minutes late, as we had made up some time + padding. This puts Amtrak's "turning" to shame.
So the Chaleur arrived into Gaspe around 1:15 p.m., unloaded passengers, and then immediately began a backup move for about a mile to where the train was wyed. During this time, the Skyline Dome attendant was busy cleaning up after a bunch of school children had boarded and "left a mess," the diner received a cleaning and vaccuming (!!!) and the two sleeping car attendants (handling three sleepers) were still tidying up the rooms as you saw the train pull back into the Gaspe station. When we boarded, it was like a fresh new train - just like it should be. And the consist included three Chateau sleepers, Diner, Skyline Dome, and three coaches. I can just imagine how much cleanup must have had to have taken place in the coaches if the Skyline Dome car was any indication! We departed Gaspe on-time. This consist would almost be equivalent to that of Amtrak's Silver Star, Crescent, or NY section of the Lake Shore. I'll just leave it at that. The VIA crew was busy between our arrival at 1:15 p.m. and departure at 2:30 p.m. from Gaspe. Course what also helped was that in the diner, specifically, VIA started to do it's cleanup after the last meal - that is breakfast. When they operate the full diner I've often wondered why they don't serve an early lunch in the diner (especially since we were running a little late!), as it will certainly generate some revenue, despite fixed labor costs etc.
Nearly all the stations that I saw along the Chaleur's route were staffed VIA stations. For a remote route, it certainly has th attention of VIA station agents at these rural areas.
And it is an incredibly scenic route. This was one train that I admittedly took "just to take it" back in 2007, as there were some rumors of discontinuance. My other two trips were part of a vacation to Gaspe or a "long way" to get to Halifax (took the train out and back then transferred to the eastbound Ocean with coordinated efforts of both the Chaleur and Ocean's crew). I don't think I would ever do the later again as it required a late night careful and timed transfer. But I would like to have the opportunity to ride on this route again.
This summer (2009) VIA and some local tourist group based in Gaspe is experimenting with operating a "tourist type" train from Gaspe to Chandler and return. Not sure on frequencies or specific equipment being used - other than your the standard HEP stainless steel Budd cars. I would hope they'd have a Park Car and/or Skyline Car on the route (or perhaps a Panorama Car that typically operates on the Skeena, but only two are required for the tri-weekly train set and VIA has three of these cars). And I'd imagine it's geared to having passengers explore the Perce region. It's been rumored that it will be like the "Bras'd'Or" experience. Course I just hope they operate it more than one time a week! Course the train from Gaspe to Chandler could also act as a bus bridge for passengers riding the Chaleur (to Gaspe perhaps) if the Chaleur is short turned at New Carlisle.
The best operational strategy for the Chaleur is to keep it as a separate train from the Ocean. They shouldn't really count last year, as there were so many mishaps on the line (bridge washouts etc.). VIA was really gearing up the Chaleur to take on more patronage last year when it was going to run as a separate train. And with some good marketng, I think it could have done really well as a separte train. As a separte train it wouldn't have to worry about "short-turns" at New Carlisle as much. There were a lot of "trainees" on my train when I was aboard last May - just before the "peak season" consist of the Chaleur was to be be added - another sleeper (as demand dictated), another coach (as demand dictated), and a diner (coupled next to the Skyline Dome Car). This train often has more coaches on it than VIA's flagship Canadian! Course it takes on a lot of corridor traffic between Quebec and Montreal, whereas they try to limit such for the Ocean.
PS - Glad VIA stopped short of making the Chaleur a Renaissance train as well. It is really a "nice train" with the largely ex-CP stainless steel Budd equipment.
Posts: 337 | Registered: Jun 2003
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My wife and I are thinking about taking the Ocean from Montreal to Halifax in the fall. How's the reliability of the train and the scenery of the route?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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VIA's Ocean is a great train - but I would only take it when they offer "Easterly Class" as this is when they tack the Park Lounge/Dome Car on the rear of the train, which truly makes for a unique experience aboard this train. You'd have to call VIA for the exact dates that Easterly Class is offered, but I think it's around mid May to mid October, but it could be mid-June to mid-September. Again, not 100% sure here. It's a fairly scenic route. No complaints here. Eastbound you likely get to see more than westbound in daylight, as eastbound you are on the train nearly the whole day - until around 5:00 p.m. when it arrives into Halifax. I know the Ocean did have some OTP issues in 2007 when I was last in Halifax. Not sure of its OTP at present. Some have mentioned it has been an hour to two hours late enroute, but has made up the time by end terminus for a half way decent on-time arrival. It traverses some interesting scenery, and with Easterly class you get dome viewing with an attendant to offer commmentary on the route, as well as special programs hat are kinda neat. There's also wine tastings in the Park Dome/Lounge car and Easterly passengers have their meals included with the price of the ticket, as compared to "Comfort Sleeper" or "Comfort Coach" passengers. Actually during peak season, I am not even sure if coach passengers can use the Reniassance diner. There is only one Renaissance diner per train set - which is perfectly fine for this route. The Ocean's train set can swell to a pretty large number during peak season. The Nova Scotia coast line - south of Halifax and up into Cape Breton especially, is the best Atlantic Coast scenery I've ever come upon. If you rent a car and go to Cape Breton though, I strongly recommend spending two nights in the Cape Breton area. But if you are just going to explore in the Halifax area, you can easily drive along the south shoreline down to many scenic coastal villages.
And the Ocean will get you to Halifax. The Westin, which is right at the VIA Rail Station has been my hotel of choice. A waterfront room is not terribly expensive. Lots to see in Halifax and the area!
Posts: 337 | Registered: Jun 2003
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I as well just got back from a Gaspe round trip on The Chaleur on May 3. Here are some impressions I got from the trip: -This train offers 90% of the atmosphere of the Canadian in a much more laid back atmosphere, all at a fraction of the price. My family and I took The Canadian in May 2002, and while I would be hard to not like the trip, we were somewhat disappointed. We never quite got the meal sitting we wanted, the lounge areas were many times crowded to the point of being uncomfortable, and the whole thing felt more like a land cruise for well off retirees than a real train journey. The Chaleur still has the dome car, great (and reasonably priced) meals, and the same classic Budd sleepers. It truly is a step back in the past. - Sleeping cars in the off season are a real bargain. I had a classic duplex roomette, and while fun to ride in it is a bit confining (I have never ridden in a standard Budd roomette.. how much smaller is this room?) On the trip back I thought why not see how much it is to upgrade? Well, for 180CDN I was given not a double, but a Triple Bedroom (Drawing Room) back to Saint Lambert! This has to be one of the most spacious rail accomodations in the world. And to make matters better, we were about 2 hours late back into Saint Lambert, making for a relaxed morning on board the train. -Saint Lambert, by the way, is a great place to catch this or The Ocean if you are driving. Parking is free and safe. The Adirondack, by the way, misconnects northbound. - The scenery is lovely, with scenes of ocean, mountains, and clapboard homes with laundry blowing in the sea breeze. Some parts reminded me of The Adirondack's cruise along Lake Champlain, and while that train may get the scenery edge when coupled with its Hudson River scenes, The Chaleur certainly has the edge on equipment. -My train made it all the way to Gaspe, and in speaking with the onboard crew it seems to again have its act together in reliability. Our crew advised they have not had to take a bus at all this year.
So, classic equipment, impeccable scenery, and low cost.. the 3 main ingredients for train riding nirvana. This should be a must do for anyone on the forum!
Posts: 38 | From: Highland, NY, USA | Registered: Jul 2003
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Nice report, JoeR. Was there a Park observation car on the train? Do you know what the winter season dates are?
I have ridden the Ocean but not the Chaleur. Are there hotels in Gaspe to overnight and rental cars available? We have been to Gaspe peninsula on a camping trip some years ago and would like to go back and spend some more time there as it is a beautiful area.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I saw plenty of hotels in Gaspe you could use for an overnight stay. There is also a Budget Rental desk at Gaspe station (though they probably would need to know you are coming to be there). Most tourist things there center around Perce, but you can easily drive there from Gaspe. As far as the winter season rates, I think they go to the end of May but don't quote me on it. And no, unfortunately there is no Park car on this run. In the summer season I beleive they run a full diner, in the off season meals are in the Skyline Cafe (but were VERY good, cooked onboard).
Posts: 38 | From: Highland, NY, USA | Registered: Jul 2003
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I'm glad, JoeR, that your trip to the Gaspe went off so well. When everything works it is a great trip, unfortunately for me at least it has been (see above) less than satisfactory. The drawing room really is the best sleeping car accomodation in North America. I had one on the Chaleur, and last December I booked a drawing room on The Canadian from Toronto to Vancouver. All that room is amazing especially if you are travelling alone. I would always book it except it is so expensive, so I only do it on occasion.
Posts: 524 | From: Toronto Ont. Canada | Registered: Mar 2001
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