posted
There is talk of a feasibility study into restoring the Pioneer. I think it's highly unlikely that it will be resurrected, but am I right that when it ran the Seattle - Chicago service was 4 days of Empire Builder and 3 days of Pioneer, the EB becoming daily on its demise?
Given Amtrak's shortage of equipment, would they be able to run a service without taking it from the EB? OK, they might be able to run a bare 1 sleeper and 1 coach with limited food service splitting off the CZ at SLC three days a week but that would still work out at the equivalent of one full consist so what are the options?
Posts: 395 | From: england | Registered: Sep 2002
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posted
Mr. Williams -- at one time, I believe that was the schedule -- EB a couple days a week, and the Pioneer the other days. I too do not believe the Pioneer will be resurrected; however, if it is, my guess would be that the daily service on the EB would NOT be affected; however, there are others here who can probably tell you exactly how many cars of each type AMTRAK has available, how many have been wrecked, how many are being rebuilt, etc., etc.
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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The Pioneer 25-26 never had more than one through Coach and Sleeper. A local Coach and Diner were added at Denver.
I observed the consist many a time passing 18.34 as part of the 5-25-35 "Everywhere West".
Suffice to say, I concur with Mr. Kimmel's thought; there will be a study - after all, consultants too need "stimulus'. I guarantee you it will "tell 'em what they want to hear" extolling the "great need for passenger service and the great views of wilderness that enhance our children to cherish our heritage and blahblah blah". But that will be that.
posted
It's a bit more complicated than that. Initially (in Amtrak days at least) the Pioneer was a Seattle to Salt Lake City (SLC) train only, starting in 1977. When, in 1983, the California Zephyr (CZ) commenced through service from Chicago to the San Francisco area, the Pioneer had connections at SLC; before then it was at Ogden. Once the Pioneer had Superliner equipment assigned to it, it was attached/detached from the CZ at SLC. This location became Denver in 1992, giving the Pioneer a routing through Wyoming whilst the CZ took the original route along the ex-DRGW. Up until 1995 the train ran daily but during that year the Empire Builder (EB) and Pioneer did indeed run on different days of the week: 3 days for the Pioneer and 4 for the EB. Finally, in 1997 the Pioneer was discontinued completely. However, this released equipment which meant that the EB was now able to run daily.
Contrary to Mr. Norman's assertion that never more than one through coach and sleeper ran, Steve Grande's travelogue talks about the two seperate diners in the train from Chicago to Denver, one for Oakland and one for Seattle, which would obviously be in the latter years of the Pioneer. However, it does indeed mention an extra coach and a lounge(esque) car being added at Denver.
It would be nice to get the Pioneer back but I'm not holding my breath.
Geoff M.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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If the Pioneer is resurrected, is there not a problem with the tracks through Boise, Idaho? I thought I read something, a while back, that the old Pioneer passenger tracks have been disassembled. If so, and if they could not be reinstated, maybe the train would have to bypass Boise?
I know the odds of the Pioneer coming back are not great. But, if it does, and whether or not runs daily or less than daily, I hope they would change the schedule so the Pioneer gets into Idaho at more reasonable hours. If I remember correctly, it was after midnight getting into Boise and Pocatello.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by yukon11: If the Pioneer is resurrected, is there not a problem with the tracks through Boise, Idaho? I thought I read something, a while back, that the old Pioneer passenger tracks have been disassembled. If so, and if they could not be reinstated, maybe the train would have to bypass Boise?
I know the odds of the Pioneer coming back are not great. But, if it does, and whether or not runs daily or less than daily, I hope they would change the schedule so the Pioneer gets into Idaho at more reasonable hours. If I remember correctly, it was after midnight getting into Boise and Pocatello.
Richard
You are correct that the mainline bypasses Boise. Passenger trains reached the capitol city in the old days using a parallel route for about 40-50 miles. My office railroad wallmap (circa 2005) shows that the western end of this passenger route has been spun off to the Idaho Northern and Pacific Railroad. The eastern end of the route is out-of-service and probably lifted.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Suffice to say, I concur with Mr. Kimmel's thought; there will be a study - after all, consultants too need "stimulus'. I guarantee you it will "tell 'em what they want to hear" extolling the "great need for passenger service and the great views of wilderness that enhance our children to cherish our heritage and blahblah blah". But that will be that.
Which is why I seldom bother to even read these "studies" any more. I put studies in quotations because most of them really do not rise to the level of research, honesty, competence, or understanding of reality to be truly called a study.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Which is why I seldom bother to even read these "studies" any more. I put studies in quotations because most of them really do not rise to the level of research, honesty, competence, or understanding of reality to be truly called a study.
George—Do you ever get the feeling that some of these professional "consultants" have a bunch of pre-written boilerplate already stored on their hard drives, so that when a contract is awarded all that is left to do is cut and paste verbiage here and there, possibly with the help of a random number generator?
-------------------- --------Eric H. Bowen
Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past! Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
According to the latest RailPAC newsletter, the stimulus package includes funds to restore 21 damaged long distance cars and put them back in service. This could easily cover a resurrected Pioneer and then some.
Posts: 2649 | From: California's Monterey Peninsula | Registered: Dec 2000
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Yes, those 21 cars coming back into service will ease the pressure on Amtrak's fleet. However, there are probably better uses for them than this rather sparsely populated route. One thing that comes to mind immediately is restoration of the Sunset to daily status.
Posts: 41 | From: South Dakota | Registered: Sep 2008
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