posted
First my apologies for this topic being marginally about Amtrak, but it seemed there were enough travelers as well as train riders on this forum that some of this might be of interest.
My wife and I spent last week in Flagstaff to give her 89 year old dad a change of pace from his 100+ degree Scottsdale home. Because of his limited mobility we saw things we might not have otherwise. Here is a brief recap that I think may provide some an incentive to hop on the Southwest Chief for a few days in this interesting city.
Transportation: No, you do not need a car. The station, located in the heart of the city, is really a transportation hub. A block away is the main terminal for city buses.
At the station, Hertz has a counter open during business hours. Also, the agent told me, as she rolled her eyes, they meet every train (8:51pm WB, 5:11am EB, MST-year round). Obviously not a fun part of the job. Other major rental companies have a drop box and I saw the Avis office a block or so away.
But, taxis are plentiful - I counted 6 from two companies at train time (I believe it was Sun and All Star). Better yet, Open Road Tours - http://www.openroadtours.com/shuttles.htm has frequent shuttles to Phoenix airport (2.5 hours) Sedona and Williams (less than an hour) and Grand Canyon (about 90mins). Another company also has shuttles to Phoenix and GC - http://www.flagstaffexpress.com/ The drivers for both companies looked friendly and efficient as they loaded at the station and the vans appeared in good shape.
Hotels: Altough we were in a condo, there is no end of hotels along I-40 about 3 miles away. But closer downtown the Drury Inn looked the nicest. We stayed in a few on a trip last summer and liked them better than Marriott moderately priced brands. It is between Northern Arizona U. and the town, maybe a half mile. Walkable in the daytime. A somewhat dubious looking Rodeway Inn was a block away.
Restaurants: With the University (20K students) close by there are plenty of restaurants and places to get a cool one. We liked the Beaver St. Brewery for its food and brew. Also close is the Kachina - inexpensive Mexican and offer Navajo Tacos that you don't see too often.
Grand Canyon RR; In Williams the GC RR runs to the edge of the canyon. This is an all day trip (allows about 4 hours to see the sights). Williams is not much but the hotel looked like a nice spot if you want an easy start for the train in the morning. The railroad is now operated by Xanterra. They are the NPS concessionaire for the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone. The train is now all stainless steel, climate controlled with an uninspiring F40 (and HEP car) for power. If you want to spend $190, there is a nice looking open platform observation on the rear. Not nearly as much fun as the steam powered train with heavyweight coaches that operated until last year. But, probably a good business decision as the bulk of the riders are certainly not railfans. The train stops a short walk from the venerable Bright Angel Lodge and El Tovar as well as the newer Thunderbird - all located on the rim of the canyon.
While we could not do it with our situation, to do the canyon justice, you almost have to spend the night there to see it at sunrise or sunset and try the mule trip to the bottom.
Things to Do: Open Road Tours offers package trips departing from the station to GC, Sedona, Williams (train ride), and Monument Valley. Certainly the way to go without a car. We preferred making Flagstaff our base and using the car so we could pace ourselves as necessary.
Aside from the famous spots, there are several National Monuments nearby and Flagstaff itself offers some interesting sights. We enjoyed the Northern Arizona museum (great Native American artifacts) and Lowell Observatory - be sure to plan a night visit to use the telescope - we had a rare rain when we went. Both are several miles out of town.
Flagstaff is a town that has come back from the dead. It now bustles with student and tourist activity. Lots of art galleries, native American jewelery shops, restaurants and bars. The hotel Monte Vista (1926) looked like it had a great coffee hangout and would be an interesting place to stay for the adventuresome.
Amtrak: The station was renovated in the 90's and is a great spot to watch trains. The BNSF double track mainline is non stop action - some with helpers as they ascend the grade to the nearby summit of the Arizona divide. Atop the Colorado Plateau at 7000' Flagstaff is almost always cool - 40 degrees cooler than the 105 when we left the Phoenix area.
There is a large platform with benches to spend some time and the visitor center for the area is also in the station. The friendly ticket agent (on duty 4am-11pm) had no problem with my picture taking on the platform. He was clear that he and the local police make the rules, not some edict from HQ.
For those who say Amtrak serves no useful transportation purpose, you need to see the arrival of the Chief. I counted about 20 boarding on a mid week evening early in the season for that area. A good mix of students, a few leisure travelers headed for the sleeper, and quite a few locals. A talked with one rancher who was picking up his wife who had been visiting in KC. Many were the backpack toting, healthy looking energetic young traveler type.
The train had the usual consist: transition sleeper, 2 sleepers, diner, lounge, 3 coaches.
I guess my ideal trip to the area would be to take No. 3 from Chicago to Winslow. Spend the night there at the delightful La Posada hotel. Dinner the next evening at its fabulous restaurant, then hop on the train for the short ride to Flagstaff. Spend a few day there seeing the sights, then take the shuttle to Phoenix for the flight home. Thanks to Southwest and Air Tran which makes the big boys behave, fares are cheap ($89 to Charlotte). Of course a better option may be there if Amtrak changes the Sunset/Eagle to a daytime ride into Phoenix/Maricopa - and provides a bus into Phoenix.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
What a GREAT report! It's nice to know that there are so many things that can be done without a car for those of us who prefer to go carless when possible.
We rode the GCRR a couple of years ago spending two nights at their hotel in Williams. It's too bad that they have had to go to less of a variety of cars and motive power. I knew the railroad and its properties were for sale. Do you know if Xanterra bought it or are they just the operators?
Frank in sunny SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Xanterra (who also owns the remains of the Fred Harvey Co., including the lodges at the Grand Canyon) purchased the entire GCRR operation including the hotel, restaurant and gift shop in Williams from the former owners Max and Thelma Biegart who resurrected the former ATSF branch line as a tourist railroad and attraction. I'm not certain about this (it seems Xanterra has wiped all mention of Max & Thelma's stewardship from their web site), but I believe the sale closed in 2007.
-------------------- --------Eric H. Bowen
Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past! Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I have always found Flagstaff to be one of the best train destinations in the country. Depot, car rental, and Visitor Center staff are oh so friendly. Motels are moderately priced and clean. With a reservation, Hertz has you in your car a few moments after your train arrives, and to return it you just park at the depot and drop the key in the depot box. If you are departing eastbound I recommend checking your bags the night before. Then you can arrive right at the early departure time and hop on for a nap or breakfast. Everything is walking distance from the station. There are many great eateries to choose from. The air is fresh and the weather is almost always good.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Great trip report Palmland......and while I am not neccessarily an airline proponent, ANY trip I make that is going to involve flying always begins with perusing the Southwest and AirTran websites. Just yesterday I booked a $94 AirTran flight from Atlanta to Minneapolis!
I am sorry to hear that steam has been sidelined at the Grand Canyon Railway.....that virtually elimnates my desire to reprise the great trip my wife and I had there in 1997......wow....cannot believe that was 12 years ago now.
Agree with your assessment of Flagstaff. Again, thanks for your report.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
As I recall, even before Xanterra took over, the business decision had been made that steam as an operating mode was just not cheap.
Truth be told, it isn't. Steam died as a primary motive power because diesel is more efficient. Truthfully, the best way to turn coal and water into tractive effort is to generate electricity at a fixed site and run electric.
That, though, would send the environmentalists into high gear. Never mind a steam locomotive has NO pollution controls.
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Flagstaff was the end of the "automobile road trip" part of our 2006 vacation. We stayed at a Holday Inn Express in Flagstaff, about 10 minutes away from AMTRAK, and drove our rental car to the Grand Canyon for a day. We did not take the GCRR, but we saw the GCRR at the Canyon, and it was still run by steam back them. I took some video of it sitting at the depot. After our day in the Grand Canyon, we drove back to Flagstaff, turned our car in at the hotel, then boarded the SWC the next morning to come back home.
I believe Xanterra now manages and operates all national park concessions. During the same 2006 trip, we stayed at Yellowstone for a few days, and all the employees there were Xanterra -- it seems that Xanterra likes to hire young college-aged people, many of whom are from foreign countries. Back 40 years ago, when I was in college (has it really been that long ago? Yikes!!), I worked at Yellowstone for the summer at the Canyon Village location. Back then, Yellowstone was operated by the Yellowstone Park Company, not Xanterra. I believe Xanterra took over probably in the 1980's sometime.
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Did Xanterra operate under a different name at some point? We made a 1999 trip to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon and stayed for about three nights. I remember all the concessions having a generic sounding 'brand' name but it seems like it was something other than Xanterra.
Of course the highlight of the 1999 trip came a couple of days after the Canyon when we rode the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad......now THAT was memorable.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
sbalax - The GC yard in Williams is still interesting. It is a lot bigger than your average tourist RR yard. Maybe 6/7 tracks in addition to the wye. Probably a dozen additional 'modern' coaches and a standby observation car. No doubt all in use when the season gets in full swing in a couple weeks.
In addition there is a long string of heavyweight cars still there. According to the ticket agent they are only used now in the winter for the Polar Express - which does not go all the way to the canyon.
The classic Alco FA/FB units are still there but see service only occasionally when the F40 needs attention.
In the 50's, the Santa Fe served the Grand Canyon on its aptly named 'Grand Canyon'. It carried coaches and two sleepers from Chicago to LA but via the Grand Canyon. You arrived in Williams one night on the Southern Section of the GC (operated via Amarillo). A local took the cars to the GC where they spent the day and returned that evening. That night they were hooked on the Northern Section of the Grand Canyon (via LaJunta) and arrived LA the next morning. What a way to travel!
notelvis - As you may know, one of the GC steam engines is now in regular service at the very scenic, Rio Grande Scenic RR out of Alamosa, CO. Well worth a return visit to see it. Their train also operates with a full length dome car - most recently in cruise train service in Alaska. While nice, it looks out of place on the Rio Grande train.
RRRich- sent you a pm on your Yellowstone days
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
Guess where at this moment the GL equipment is located?
Answer: enroute from the rail equipment broker's facility to Denver as an Amtrak special move (reports at other boards).
There's something happening here... what it is aint exactly clear
(any of here live and kicking, especially if carrying an M-16 about, during the Viet Nam era know of those song lyrics).
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Well, the best way to answer that question is to have Denver locals and 5/6 travellers look for blue and cream cars...
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Good info GBN. Wonder why Anschutz thinks he can make a go of it when others have failed?
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
GBN, I was in during the Vietnam era, but never got "over there" (closest I came was as an advisor to the Korean Air Force 110 miles s. of Seoul). Those are, of course, part of the lyrics to "For What It's Worth" by Buffalo Springfield.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by notelvis: Did Xanterra operate under a different name at some point? We made a 1999 trip to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon and stayed for about three nights. I remember all the concessions having a generic sounding 'brand' name but it seems like it was something other than Xanterra.
The original concessioner was The Fred Harvey Company, which was acquired by Amfac Resorts in 1968. It continued to operate under the Fred Harvey name until 2002, when Amfac Resorts changed their name to Xanterra Parks and Resorts.
Posts: 133 | From: Canaan, CT | Registered: Dec 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by notelvis: Did Xanterra operate under a different name at some point? We made a 1999 trip to the North Rim of the Grand Canyon and stayed for about three nights. I remember all the concessions having a generic sounding 'brand' name but it seems like it was something other than Xanterra.
The original concessioner was The Fred Harvey Company, which was acquired by Amfac Resorts in 1968. It continued to operate under the Fred Harvey name until 2002, when Amfac Resorts changed their name to Xanterra Parks and Resorts.
There we go! Thank you. Amfac was the name I was struggling to remember. In 1999 at the North Rim of the canyon it was all Amfac this - Amfac that. Bags from the gift shop said Amfac, styrofoam coffee cups said Amfac, cardboard boxes from the pizza shop said Amfac, napkins said Amfac......
I'm embarrassed now that I had to be reminded.
RRRich, I actually spent a couple of nights in Alamosa, CO last summer and saw the #18, originally a Lake Superior and Ishpeming 2-8-0, being serviced after one of it's runs. I was there primarily to chase and ride the Cumbres & Toltec trains out of Chama, NM (my 4th trip to the C&T since 1999) and did not ride the Rio Grande Scenic......but I did ride one of their LaVeta Pass excursions (behind an SP 2-6-0) in 2007.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
