I have often wondered why Amtrak cannot refund lost or stolen tickets. As long as one has ID and the credit card used to purchase the tickets I would think it shouldnt be a problem.
Also--maybe it was a mistake for Amtrak to give a refund to the person mentioned in the article. Why should he or she receive preferential treatment? Everyone else will want to be treated the same.
Posts: 416 | From: St. Albans, Vermont | Registered: Feb 2003
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Sorry for the mixup. My computer obviously decided to leave me behind. I was about to say I know I am being nit picking but really Smitty your criticism about Amtrak is getting to me. Why do you continue on this forum? I have had mostly good experiences on Amtrak. Maybe it is because I "roll with the punches" and feel if I wanted perfection I would not travel. So the door squeeks..live with it or fix is my idea and I enjoy the rest. I have been riding Amtrak since its beginning and have had only one bad car attendent. Some were better than others but that's life.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Ms. Train Lady, recently over another Forum, I had to live with this comment at a topic discussing possible restoration of Sunset East, which I am opposed to:
Sorry I have to say Mr Gilbert B Norman, you sure sound like someone who doesn't like Amtrak... So why are you on the Amtrak forum? Sounds to me like you just don't care much for the Amtrak!!! I maybe out of place but that is sure how it seems... Thats my five cents! We are on a railroad forum, why would you want to fly a plane??? A railroader would always rather ride a train!!!
Now, I would love to ride Amtrak from LAX to Orlando, I think it would be a very fun and interesting trip!!! So I am for it, also for Amtrak to bring back other routes they have trashed...
Even if Mr. Smith is our Laura Landro (a Wall Street Journal travel writer who finds "bones to pick" at hotel properties such as Ritz-Carlton and Four Seasons) around here, that is no grounds to suggest he withdraw from participation here.
As I've often noted, my overall assessment of Amtrak travel remains at "more positives than negatives", but I think it is great that you and Mr. Nate were able to "roll with punches" on your Amtrak travels.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Of course, everyone is entitled to his or her opinion as long as it isn't detrimental to someone else which is not the case here. I admit Smitty does make some good points at times . My point is that constant negativity gets depressing, at least to me. If there is nothng good about Amtrak why ride.it? Gil, I don't mean there is nothing wrong with Amtrak and it is a bed of "roses". We have had our share of "ughs" but I try to overlook them once they are over.We have had some really wild experiences
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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You are right---I have heavily criticized Amtrak in recent months (and especially the last year or so). To answer your last question first as to why I should ride Amtrak if I always criticize it, the answer is quite simple---I don't ride Amtrak any more. I gave up on them.
I have been an avid Amtrak fan and passenger (and was even Amtrak Select Plus--the highest level) for several years. My first Amtrak ride was in 1980 on the Coast Starlight. I probably can't even give you a ballpark figure as to how many times I've ridden the Starlight to/from LAX and Seattle, and how many times I've ridden the Zephyr to/from Oakland (Emeryville) to Chicago and/or Denver. It is THAT many times.
But you've probably heard the saying before that goes, "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results". Well, I have chosen not to be "insane".
I don't want to make a long laundry list of their faults, because it would just be repetitive. But I will say that I think Amtrak has the POTENTIAL to be a great national passenger train system. There are so many things that can be done, with little or no additional funds, but it will NEVER happen. I mean that seriously----it will never----ever-----happen with the way that Amtrak is currently configured and "managed".
If Amtrak were a private corporation, I will take a guess and say that you wouldn't hear too much from me about Amtrak. I would "vote" by simply not giving them my business. However, Amtrak is a different ball game. They are supported by MY money and by YOUR money, and for that, I think that open criticism is not only deserved, but is highly necessary. Part of the reason why Amtrak is such a crappy company is because people accept mediocrity and they remain silent. I do not believe in this when it comes to things that are publicly funded.
I have had some great trips on Amtrak, but the bad trips far outweigh the good ones. One of the problems is that the on-board employees who do an excellent job will receive the same pay and benefits (and lack of acknowledgement from higher-ups) as those who "disappear" during a trip and do almost nothing that is required in their occupation. Their immediate supervisor, the Conductor, is almost always reluctant to do anything because of the way the system is set up. Why do something now when you're "outta there" in an hour and it becomes someone else's problem???
I won't bore you with the rest of my thoughts, but in a nutshell, that is why. I'm not coming at this from a viewpoint of a passenger who took a ride or two or three and I'm complaining based upon a few rare experiences. I'm coming from the viewpoint of someone who has been a VERY loyal Amtrak passenger and fan for several decades. I also happen to have a good deal of inside knowledge on the company and how it's run, and of course in a public forum I would never disclose certain things. But suffice it to say, they are one WHACKED OUT company! They certainly do not attract "the best and the brightest", that's for damn sure!
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Well, Smitty. I see your point of view but it makes me uncomfortable. I feel as thought you think you must speak out for me because I accept mediocrity and You know what the "supreme" is but obviously I don't. I don't think you mean to come across like that . I don't complain much in public but I have written letters to Amtrak that prbably arrive in ashes. I have been riding trains since the 1930s so I am no novice either. But one thing life has taught me is there is nothing perfect. The air lines depend on the public money in excess of Amtrak . Do you fault them too? Perhaps you do but not here.At any rate you have your opinion and I hav mine. and so be it.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:They are supported by MY money and by YOUR money, and for that, I think that open criticism is not only deserved, but is highly necessary.
Smitty, do the math.
Let's assume you pay $10,000 income tax each year. Amtrak's share of your annual $10,000 is $2.86. That is not a lot of your money.
I don't sweat the small stuff. If that cap and tax bill passes Congress, you will be paying $20,000 a year and Amtrak will still only be getting $2.86 of your money.
{I have no idea how much Smitty pays in income taxes, I just used the $10,000 figure as an example.}
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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I'm curious whether you still have a train riding 'itch' and how you manage to scratch it in your self-imposed 'post-Amtrak' world?
I'm not trying to be confrontational.....just interested in whether you have some favorite tourist railroads or if you slip off north to ride the Canadian.....or some private car charters.
I've not given up on Amtrak but I will admit that more and more I seek out the unusual excursion or unique tourist operation rather than book another Amtrak trip. I HAVE lost interest in riding the Silver Service trains between Rocky Mount and the northeast!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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David: I will still ride Amtrak's corridor trains, and around my area that would be the Capitol Corridor and the San Joaquin trains (if I need to get down to Los Angeles and I'm not in a hurry). I also will take private car trips every now and then as well. My favorites in this area are the Silver Lariat and Silver Solarium. I've also ridden several others over the last few years, and I got to go inside almost all of them during the AAPRCO steam trip (behind the ATSF #3751) to San Diego last year.
train lady: No offense intended towards you. I'm sorry you took it that way, so I apologize. My gripe is that we (the customers and passengers of Amtrak) accept what is given to us, instead of demanding more for our money. I do not feel this way strictly about Amtrak...I feel this way about other things as well, such as our elected representatives. They represent us, and they work for us. Most of them have forgotten this, and tend to get lost in the cocktail parties in Washington. As far as the airlines and who receives more money and why....well, this is almost a "chicken or the egg" discussion, so I don't want to delve into that. For me, in my own personal opinion, I think the airports and airlines make far better use of taxpayer money that Amtrak does. I have yet to go take a scheduled flight somewhere and sit on a 65 year old bench on a concrete slab in the middle of nowhere with nails sticking out of the wood. I have yet to go to an airport and not find food, drinks, medical services, law enforcement, shopping, museums, and WiFi---all within feet of my gate. So you can see what my opinion is here.
Mike: I appreciate your numbers, but I disagree. First of all, I have no clue if your figures are correct (not the assumption on what my taxes are, but what percentage of my taxes go to Amtrak). But I will accept your numbers as factual---I have no reason to dispute them. However, that was not my point and is virtually meaningless to me. That's like saying that the local fire department only receives 50 cents from every household in the community it serves, and if they are crappy---well, so be it.....after all, it's not much money anyway. If they can't respond quickly to save a life, or to put out a house fire before it gets too big, OH WELL! I do not believe in carving these things up into picture-perfect references. The fact of the matter is that Amtrak depends on our (your) money for survival. They are a POLITICAL beast, even though many railfans run for cover and tuck their head in the sand when anything political about Amtrak is mentioned. Amtrak is a bastion of politics---it was created this way, and that is a fact that must be accepted. Additionally, part of the porkulus bill, um, I mean "stimulus" bill included many millions of dollars towards Amtrak. Again, this is taxpayer money. I do not, and will not, "pooh-pooh" this just because it's a drop in the bucket compared to the other ridiculous amounts alleged stimulus money that have been forced down our throats in recent months. And since you mentioned the cap-and-tax bill that the House disgustingly passed last night, I once again am dismayed at how American citizens are allowing this crap to happen to us. It's not a left versus right issue (well, in voting it sure was). It is a right versus wrong issue. Here is an outstanding summary of this ridiculous thing that our "representatives" passed last night:
So to sum it up, I will once again say that I think Amtrak has potential, and has had potential for years. I know that the huge majority of their engine crews are outstanding, and I have never once made a complaint about them. I applaud them for working under very difficult conditions, and keeping us safe when we travel. But Amtrak is infested with terrible employees who are held in place by their union rules. They make a lot of money, and receive great benefits and retirement. I would think that they would at least be around to do the job they are getting paid for when someone needs them, but I have witnessed time and time again people who are disabled get ignored and go for hours needing food before someone finally shows up (after hanging out in the baggage car smoking, or in the trans/dorm car sleeping, or talking for hours on the cell phone to their girlfriend, or, or.......).
PS: Keep an eye on the shenanigans at Amtrak that just took place with the sudden and unexpected retirement of Inspector General Fred Weiderhold. For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, do some Googling. Check the web page of US Senator Charles Grassley (R-Iowa). Amtrak was apparently being called to task for many, many things...and the IG suddenly "retired". Stay tuned!
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Smitty, apology accepted. I agree with your statement about the Congress. If many of them would stop chasing the "fair ***" and get down to business we would all be better off. Theodore Roosevelt once said that Congress should remember they are the servants of the people not their masters. Amen
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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You know, going back to the original topic, I'm reminded of my very first Amtrak trip....which was also my first solo train ride.
(disclaimer - I had made several trips aboard Southern Railway's passenger trains before my first Amtrak trip)
It was November 1975 and the ride was overnight in coach from Hamlet, NC to DeLand, FL aboard the Silver Star. (I returned on the long-gone 'Champion', an ACL named train operating on SAL trackage with an 11:00pmish arrival back in Hamlet)
I remember the train pulling in hauled by a couple of those big SDP-40 diesels with the flat red noses which were later retired when Burlington Northern decided they caused derailments. My coach was 'tastefully' decked out in purple and orange with one of those stylized Amtrak System maps at each end of the car. The diner had strange triangular tables on one side (something ACL did I believe).
Lastly...... I remember not getting any sleep becaue I didn't want my return trip ticket to be lost or stolen the moment I drifted off to sleep!
Seriously. (I was only 13)
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Hi, all, I'm back from another sojourn and will post about it in a new strand. But here, just wanted to say--Smitty, don't leave! Even though we disagree on many aspects of politics and the current state of Amtrak, I find your advice on hotels and other travel, esp out west, to be very helpful. And I will always be especially grateful to you for your recommendation of the TV show MONK--I have now watched all available on video and wish there were more to see!
David, your story reminds me of the first time I went to Florida by train. I was afraid to get a sleeper--no idea what they were like, but when I heard they didn't lock from the outside, it made me very nervous. And someone else had told me people got robbed sleeping on Amtrak, so I slept with my purse (which contained my tickets) partly underneath me so no one could get at it!
As it turned out, I had no trouble, and I saw that the sleepers were very nice indeed--and took one the next time.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote: And since you mentioned the cap-and-tax bill that the House disgustingly passed last night, I once again am dismayed at how American citizens are allowing this crap to happen to us.
In a round-about sort of way, that is the point I was trying to make. The $2.86 is a very small drop in "The Bucket". There is still $9,997.14 being spent by our federal government. And that amount is increasing at an alarming rate.
When we are talking about a $1500 a year increase in the cost of electricity that I will have to pay {if the cap & tax bill becomes law}, for absolutely no climate/planetary benefit, I tend to minimize the $2.86 I'm paying to Amtrak each year. It is way down my list of gripes, aggravations, & concerns.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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And once again, the Smith Bros. have taken a seemingly apolitical topic regarding the refunding of Amtrak tickets, and turned it into a diatribe against the Cap-and-Trade Bill, complete with a link to an "outstanding summary" of the bill through a right-wing website.
I always find it interesting how the same people who are aghast at leaving mountains of debt to future generations of Americans have little or no problem with leaving a polluted planet to future generations of mankind.
Please take the politics elsewhere, or, as long as you're going to post links, go here: http://www.mediamatters.orgPosts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Ocala, No one wants to leave a "polluted" planet, and the cap and tax bill will do absolutely nothing to prevent or cause pollution on our planet. It is a socialistic power grab by our current government.
Why do you insist on posting an extremely distorted view of the opposition to this bill {"leaving a polluted planet to future generations of mankind."}?
And did you notice in your link they mostly whined about misinformation, but published very little real information {CBO numbers is all I saw}.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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I don't "insist" on posting anything, but if you're going to link to the Heritage Foundation, you are going to get called out on it. Talk about bias!
I am not the moderator here, nor would I want to be, but if I were, I would certainly ask for a moratorium on the skewing of topics towards the day's politics; there are plenty of other forums for that.
Ocala Mike
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: And I will always be especially grateful to you for your recommendation of the TV show MONK--I have now watched all available on video and wish there were more to see!
I can't remember if I mentioned this before, but the new shows which will be coming on in a few weeks will be the end of Monk! This summer will be their final season. I hope they will finally reveal who was responsible for Trudy's death and the car bomb. Wouldn't that be whacked if it turned out to be someone like Lt. Discher???
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Believe it or not, I read Media Matter and the Daily KOS every day. I also listen to Air America when I'm out and about in my car because I can pick them up on XM Radio. I like to base my opinions on factual evidence, and since I have the time (and desire) to learn about this stuff, it has been very eye-opening to me when I read and hear some of the massive lies and misinformation that are being put out there---mostly by the left, but sometimes by the right as well. All politicians lie (I think it's in their DNA), but it really is quite interesting to sit down and gather the facts, and then take a look at the information that is being put out there. I have found MSNBC to be particularly irresponsible with their "reporting". It's kinda creepy to me. Fox News does the same thing, but only with their opinion shows (such as Hannity), not with their news programming.
Fear not, Ocala Mike......I think the new and improved Railforum will have a separate area to talk about non-train stuff.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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For those who wonder why I complain about Amtrak, I think his report speaks for itself.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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For the record, it was Train Lady who changed the topic.
But ultimately, Smitty is 100% fully correct in his description of Amtrak.
I myself am a railfan, and have spent tons of $$ on Amtrak trips in the past. I had 20,000 AGR points and was planning on a LDT trip this Summer. I've since changed my mind and am only using the points for local corridor services, and could care less about earning any additional AGR points. Point being: You couldn't get me to ride an Amtrak LDT even for free nowadays. And that's a damn shame.
The poor system needs an ENTIRE OVERHAUL. It needs to be held accountable, and made to be competetive. It's the only way it would improve. Right now it just keeps getting money thrown at it with no questions asked. Like giving slow small doses of radiation treatment to a cancer patient, barely keeping the victum alive, and not really curing or solving any problems.
Posts: 54 | Registered: Oct 2006
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