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I heard a year ago it was going to start, and I'm wondering when it will, so I can make plans to ride the first one in each direction. Does anyone know what day it is going to start. I heard sometime in march, but does anyone know anything else
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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I did too, and there is nothing, I have tried to see on the Amtrak fair finder, and couldn't find it, on it
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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Latest word from the Carolina Association for Passenger Trains e-mail group is that the new 'mid-day' Raleigh - Charlotte train will start operating in March or April 2010.
To make room for this additional 'Piedmont Service' train, the existing northbound Piedmont was renumbered from train 74 to 76 in the newest timetable, clearing numbers 75 and 74 for the new train. (The existing southbound Piedmont retains it's original number 73.)
We'll see if they can get it off the ground. I'm optimistic but not holding my breath.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Yeah, I have tried the fare finder, and it hasn't shown up, I'll try May this time, thanks
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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Thsi gets us around to what is the status on restoration of the second main in the single track sections between Greensboro and Charlotte?
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I'm not sure if they are relaying that. I rode over part of that line, last year, and they were doing the grading, and the new pieces almost looked like snap track, so maybe it is being put in. I expect that to be done, probably by the time the train starts
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by sojourner: What about the train to Asheville? Is that permanently delayed?
'Permanent' seems so final.
Eternally delayed sounds better.
The midday Charlotte-Raleigh train gets priority over Asheville because it's a more 'doable' short-term project.
The passenger stations are already in place. The platforms are service-ready. Signals have been upgraded. More crossings have automatic gates and have been timed to passenger train speeds. New double-tracking (replacing double-tracking removed 25 years ago) is being installed between Greensboro and Charlotte. The state of North Carolina actually owns the track (and has for more than 100 years) between Charlotte and Raleigh which puts the NCDOT in a much stronger bargaining position as opposed to introducing service on a route which is owned by Norfolk Southern and has been freight only for more than 30 years.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I agree, so do you know anything about the Wilmington service they were planing, or is that delayed too
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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Wilmington service seems, if anything, more unlikely than western NC service. The former primarly passenger route into Wilmington from Rocky Mount has about 20 miles abandoned, including a fairly major bridge, which is also a drawbridge - swing span, I think. The alternate possibility, through Pembroke would require a new wye in the middle of town where none has ever existed before.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: Wilmington service seems, if anything, more unlikely than western NC service. The former primarly passenger route into Wilmington from Rocky Mount has about 20 miles abandoned, including a fairly major bridge, which is also a drawbridge - swing span, I think. The alternate possibility, through Pembroke would require a new wye in the middle of town where none has ever existed before.
Politics makes for strange situations.....during Mike Easley's tenure as Governor (2000-2008) the Wilmington service seemed more likely than Asheville because the state DOT secretary at that time was a Wilmington native.
Seriously, the Asheville service was placed 'on hold' (and still is) while studies detailing three or four possible routes for a Raleigh-Wilmington train were commissioned and completed.
The Wilmington service bogged down even before the economy tanked. I feel that this was because the 'preferred' option would have had the train running Raleigh - Selma - Fayetteville - Pembroke - Wilmington. This option would have required TWO new connecting tracks where none have existed previously. One would have been in the southwestern quadrant of the diamond in Selma and the other in the northeastern quadrant in Pembroke.
As George notes, the connection in Pembroke would have wiped out half of downtown Pembroke and, oddly enough, failed to receive the support of Pembroke's mayor and town council.
Soooooo........North Carolina has for now wisely chosen to concentrate it's assets where the fastest (and probably best) paybacks will be realized.....increasing the frequency where the trains are already running.
Maybe the state DOT head will be a Western North Carolinian the next time adding a train seems likely and the Gods of Politico will smile on Asheville again.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Yeah. Another thing they could do for Wilmington would be to have a cab car on the end, and operate Push Pull. But that would be also expensive and time consuming
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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The new connecting track in Selma, NC would have wiped out a block of subsidized housing units.
No one in Selma raised opposition to that plan and residents of the housing units sort of just shrugged in resignation.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Yeah, Well in Selma, they have the one connecting track, and I guess they could take one of the cab cars down from the northeast, or get another locomotive, and put it on the end, and run it push pull. Maybe push to Selma, Pull to Pembroke, and then push to Wilmington. That would be the cheapest option
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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David, has the option to continue on NS to Goldsboro and then CSX to Wilmington been finally ruled out? While that would entail rebuilding the abandoned south end of CSX's lines, it is at least doable without disrupting two towns. It would also provide the line for that day when direct service from Rocky Mount was needed.
While it would likely be the most direct/fastest, it would no doubt be the most expensive and skip Fayetteville.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I don't think it has, but with that huge amount of abandoned track, I think it is unlikely
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: David, has the option to continue on NS to Goldsboro and then CSX to Wilmington been finally ruled out? While that would entail rebuilding the abandoned south end of CSX's lines, it is at least doable without disrupting two towns. It would also provide the line for that day when direct service from Rocky Mount was needed.
While it would likely be the most direct/fastest, it would no doubt be the most expensive and skip Fayetteville.
I don't think anything has been ruled in or out to be honest. Going to Goldsboro on NS via Selma and then down CSX to Wilmington was, I think, the 2nd preference. That's the option which would involve relaying 20 miles of track and putting a drawbridge back into service though and since this isn't exactly the northeast corridor, I find it hard to imagine the state putting up that kind of money for a single passenger train in each direction.
Personally, I feel like a passenger train to Wilmington would be more quickly realized operating to and from Charlotte rather than trying to get it into Raleigh. It's a more direct shot and the neccessary tracks are still in place. Connections to the northeast and Florida could be made in Pembroke and/or Hamlet.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I meant to ask, with this new service, will you now be able to go directly from Raleigh etc to Chicago without an overnight in Washington DC or Richmond or something? Last time I looked, you could no longer make the direction connection in Washington because there wasn't enough time between the Silver Star and the Cap Ltd after they moved the FL Silver Star departures of to later in the day.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Personally, I feel like a passenger train to Wilmington would be more quickly realized operating to and from Charlotte rather than trying to get it into Raleigh. It's a more direct shot and the neccessary tracks are still in place. Connections to the northeast and Florida could be made in Pembroke and/or Hamlet.
Interesting idea, and it makes sense, especially if it was a continuation of a train from Greensboro through Charlotte.
But I do wonder what the market would be. In Seaboard days, the Charlotte-Hamlet-Wilmington line was used primarily for freight with the only passenger service being one makes all stops local. But then, times have changed just a bit.
I believe that line has one of the longest stretches of straight track in the country, maybe 70 miles? Right through Mr. Norman's piney woods.
It would seem that NC should make their priority Charlotte-Salisbury-Asheville rather than heading for the coast.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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OR: www.ncrr.com/NCRRThematic-120408.pdf This map color codes NCRR, NS, CSX, and shortlines and shows major highways, as well. Again, you will need to zoom in to see much detail.
AFtere some scratching around, since my employee timetables are inaccessible for now,
Charlotte - Greensboro - Raleight - Goldsboro - Wilmington is 305 miles
Charlotte - Monroe - Hamlet - Pembroke - Wilmington is about 195 miles
Charlotte-Monroe and Hamlet-Wilmington is unsignaled, but in general fairly straight.
Only porblem with the route via Hamlet is the lack of any location with significnat population in between.
However, if we do what is needed to get about a 4 hour minus run time, it would make for a nice Atlanta to Wilmington service.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: David, has the option to continue on NS to Goldsboro and then CSX to Wilmington been finally ruled out? While that would entail rebuilding the abandoned south end of CSX's lines, it is at least doable without disrupting two towns. It would also provide the line for that day when direct service from Rocky Mount was needed.
While it would likely be the most direct/fastest, it would no doubt be the most expensive and skip Fayetteville.
I don't think anything has been ruled in or out to be honest. Going to Goldsboro on NS via Selma and then down CSX to Wilmington was, I think, the 2nd preference. That's the option which would involve relaying 20 miles of track and putting a drawbridge back into service though and since this isn't exactly the northeast corridor, I find it hard to imagine the state putting up that kind of money for a single passenger train in each direction.
Personally, I feel like a passenger train to Wilmington would be more quickly realized operating to and from Charlotte rather than trying to get it into Raleigh. It's a more direct shot and the neccessary tracks are still in place. Connections to the northeast and Florida could be made in Pembroke and/or Hamlet.
I agree out of Charlotte would be the best route
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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I agree if you could continue it to Atlanta you would pick up more big cities and it would still be fast between Charlotte and Wilmington
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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George - shades of ACL/Georgia RR through Pullman service Wilmington-Atlanta, except that was via ACL Florence/Sumter/Augusta.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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This is a very interesting thread for me because Hamlet was where I was born and raised, Wilmington – Wrightsville Beach, actually – was a frequent family vacation destination and I worked as a freight brakeman on the Seaboard Coast Line during my summers as a college student.
The North Carolina DOT did a study between 1999 and 2001 of restoring passenger rail service to and from Wilmington and considered three alternatives:
Wilmington-Goldsboro-Raleigh (and beyond to New York)
Wilmington-Fayetteville-Raleigh (and beyond to New York)
Wilmington-Pembroke-Charlotte
After surveys of preferred travel destinations and travel patterns of potential rail passengers, the Wilmington-Charlotte route was the first one eliminated from consideration – much to my disappointment because it went through Hamlet – even though the DOT considered it the most promising route at the beginning of its study.
The reasons were interesting. For Charlotte-area residents, the Myrtle Beach, S.C. area is a more frequent destination than the Wilmington-area beaches. If you look at a map, you’ll see why. The South Carolina coast is closer to Charlotte. Meanwhile, residents in the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill area – the Triangle – go to the Wilmington-area beaches for the same reason that Charlotteans prefer South Carolina, geographic proximity. Passengers originating in the Wilmington area were most interested in getting to Raleigh and the Northeast Corridor. It would be interesting to know whether the destination questions were open-ended or choices were suggested, and if choices were suggested, if Atlanta was on the list.
The study was then revised adding another alternative: Wilmington-Rocky Mount and on to the Northeast and here is what it found:
The route through Goldsboro to Raleigh produced the same travel time, whether by car or train, would require $184 million in capital investment, attract 74,100 riders and require a $1.2 million annual operating subsidy.
The route through Fayetteville to Raleigh would take 52 minutes longer by train than by car, would require $125 million in capital investment, attract 58,900 riders and require a $2.2 million operating subsidy.
The route to Rocky Mount would be 49 minutes faster by train, would require $188 million in capital investment, attract 32,000 riders and require a $2 million operating subsidy.
As regards the long stretch of straight track, I’ve always heard it is the longest tangent track in the United States. It is 78.86 miles of the 113-mile Hamlet-Wilmington line and begins at a point just east of Hamlet called Old Hundred (CSX milepost 261.99) and runs to East Arcadia (milepost 340.85).
When I worked this stretch – this was in the caboose days – the operating rules required that the train stop at a place near Lumberton so that the brakeman at the head end could get on the ground. The engineer would then pull the entire train past the brakeman, who stood beside the track to inspect the train for hotboxes, locked wheels or dragging equipment. Once the entire train had pulled past, the brakeman would cross the track and the engineer would then back the train so the brakeman could inspect the other side and reboard the engine. This sort of maneuver was unnecessary elsewhere because the head-end and caboose crews could look along the length of their train as it rounded curves.
Posts: 48 | From: San Jose, Calif. | Registered: Sep 2006
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Thanks very much for the amplification on the prospective routes studied for Wilmington service. The point you make about which beach folks in Charlotte are headed for as opposed to which one those in Raleigh will visit is a significant one.
I may have asked you this before but I'm curious whether you've had the opportunity to visit Hamlet since the old SAL station was renovated? It's a real gem and a pity that only the Silver Star serves it.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Yeah that station is pretty awesome. The only time I have really seen it is on the Silver Star, and that just doesn't do it justice. They also have a really cool exhibit outside. I remember they ruled out the Charlotte option, and the Raleigh option sounds good to me. After all for me all I have to do is take the star
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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I have been back a few times since the station was moved and restored, most recently when I was there for my 40th high school reunion in October. The mayor previous to the current one gave my family a personally guided tour one Christmas. The restoration is one of the best things the town has ever done, although the politics of it have divided folks there.
The nicely restored station rotunda is open as a waiting room for Silver Star passengers. There is an Amtrak crew room in the building and an office for the local taxi service on the ground floor as well as some rentable office and meeting space on the second floor. On the ground floor and in the basement are the beginnings of a railroad museum being created with the help of a state grant. The basement portion of the museum is finished -- an HO model railroad depicting the station and Seaboard Airline Railroad operations downtown in the early 1950s. Another downtown building nearby houses some additional museum exhibits including a full-scale model of the Seaboard's first steam locomotive, the Tornado, a large-scale toy train layout and some other exhibits.
The private museum housed in the station building before restoration is now housed a few blocks away. The failure of that museum's board and the town to reach an agreement for that museum to return to the station after restoration is the source of the political division I mentioned earlier. However, the private museum's two largest artifacts, a Seaboard EMD SDP 35 passenger/freight locomotive and a caboose, are across the street from the station in a small park alongside the passenger main line.
Hamlet's hope for more passenger trains probably depends on restoration of the CSX "S" line between Raleigh and Richmond as part of the North Carolina-Virginia high speed rail project that's pretty far along in its planning. Should that come to fruition, there's a real possibility Amtrak could shift the Silver Meteor and/or Palmetto from the "A" line through Rocky Mount, Fayetteville and Florence to the "S" line, which serves Raleigh and Columbia. For the Meteor it would be a return to home rails. CSX might like freeing up the congested "A" line for freights, especially since the states would be picking up the tab for restoring a parallel north-south route.
Posts: 48 | From: San Jose, Calif. | Registered: Sep 2006
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I think it would be really cool for the Palmetto to run thru Columbia because maybe I could see the train a little more often. It is funny I have seen the SDP 35 and the caboose a lot, but I haven't been able to get off and get a good photo. One of these days I'll have to go
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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I recall the museum that was in the Hamlet station pre-restoration and am sorry that they will not be the ones returning to the renovated station.
I knew that it had moved to a new location during the renovation but am uncertain as to where.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Of course haven't they just completed the inter-state from West Virginia through the triad and down to the Myrtle Beach. Not sure if summer beach goers would want to be without a car. Even New Yorkers who take the LIRR out to the Hamptons area either have a car at the beach house or someone in the house has one. I think providing reliable efficient commuter lines to link the triad to Charlotte or to the triangle. build a link to the three major areas then if that works then look into "excursion" trains to Willimington and Ashville.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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