posted
With so many flight cancellations today in the Northeast (over 1000) I am sure Amtrak did well with some unexpected ridership. We got a little of that snow today also:
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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A review of Train Status shows "they're running' in the Corridor. Late but running.
There was no mention of Amtrak operations on this evening's NBC Nightly News. They did mention trains, but somehow I doubt if the operators enjoy this varietal of publicity:
posted
The only thing running was Amtrak. The Metro shut down ditto 2 of the 3 airports Reagan and BWI. Dulles had one runway open for incoming foreign flights. The report was that amtrak was running well and only 5-15 minutes late in the NEC
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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It seems Amtrak proves itself again as a vital transportation mode even as airports and highways across the northeast shutdown.
quote:Originally posted by train lady: The only thing running was Amtrak. The Metro shut down ditto 2 of the 3 airports Reagan and BWI. Dulles had one runway open for incoming foreign flights. The report was that amtrak was running well and only 5-15 minutes late in the NEC
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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I hope it remains true that Amtrak is the only transportation system that continues running in this storm. The skeptic in me says that by the end of this weekend, we'll be hearing about stranded people on cold trains with no food and broken restrooms. I would love to be proven wrong!
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Oh Dear you are at it again, Smitty. I understand that you don't consider Amtrak one of your favorites and that is your right. But can't you accept the fact that they can do thingds well at times. Why doesn't it bother you that the airlines strand people with no food and unuseable rest rooms as well. There have no complaints so far about Amtrak and I think the people who were trying to get home for the holidays were happy there wws some kind of transportation.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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train lady, train lady...why do you hate me so?
There is already one story coming out about passengers stranded on a train somewhere on CSX tracks, and one of the passengers called CNN and was live on the air for that one. I heard this second-hand, but I'll post more info if I see it.
If you do a Google search for "Amtrak passengers stranded news", you will get over 33,000 hits. Amtrak has failed many, many times when "the big one" hits.
Let me give you an example of how airlines do things right.....I received an email (and a post on Facebook) from Virgin America Airlines on Thursday morning. They were advising all of their passengers with reservations for Friday/Saturday/Sunday that they were waiving all change/cancellation fees, and to call their 800 number to make new arrangements without penalty. Their control center was obviously following the weather forecasts, and knew that this storm would bring airports to a close. If people make the CHOICE to go to an airport this weekend to fly out of (or into) a location on the east coast, then I would say that their odds of being stranded in a metal tube or in an airport are pretty high. But that is their choice...these things happen every year, and we know very well what the consequences are.
Amtrak fans rave about how "reliable" Amtrak is, and I just don't see it. Do they get trains from Point A to Point B most of the time every day? Yes--they do. But as I've said many times, I am not happy with mediocrity. As I said above, if we make it through the weekend without any Amtrak horror stories, I will HAPPILY say that I was wrong.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Here is the CNN story of a train stuck for 10 hours in Alexandria, Virginia (no power, no updates, running out of food....the usual Amtrak stuff):
It sounds like the actual reason for being stuck is not Amtrak's fault, but as usual, Amtrak is handling this situation poorly.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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However you travel, bad weather causes major problems. That is why I consider the title of this strand an oxymoron!!!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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If they where an airline they would have gotten to the Alexandria platform and then refused to allow the passengers to get off the train.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Alright. Chill out...(at least I am sitting here with all this snow)! Thats ONE train out of how many? Compared to well over 1000 flights cancelled, thats a tremendous record. NO method of transportation is perfect. We all know this. Criminy. Not like it was the 2000 people stranded for 16 hours on four Eurostars in the Channel Tunnel Saturday.
As for Amtraks delay, the updated CNN report as of 11:02pm says:
"The storm also affected rail service. Passengers aboard an Amtrak train that originated in New Orleans on Friday morning sat outside Alexandria, Virginia, for more than five hours Saturday afternoon.
The train had full power, and passengers were being given food and drinks throughout the ordeal, Amtrak spokeswoman Vernae Graham said.
She expected the train to pull into Washington Saturday night."
Anywho...
I took this just before nightfall, the snow plows never made a difference:
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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The woman on the phone with CNN and Amtrak seem to have differing opinions regarding the status of the power and food availability.
Specifically: "The train had full power, and passengers were being given food and drinks throughout the ordeal, Amtrak spokeswoman Vernae Graham said"
That is not what was reported in the phone call.
One of the characteristics of a bureaucracy is that it performs poorly in unexpected situations. Apparently, to Amtrak winter is an unexpected situation.
Posts: 41 | From: South Dakota | Registered: Sep 2008
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After reviewing the CNN video submitted by Mr. Smith, somehow when I start hearing statements to the effect of "we demand immediate compensation" the witness' agenda must be called into question.
But as Mr. Dakguy notes, the Amtrak "spinfrau" seems to have a different take.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Perhaps we should wait for the storm to end and facts to roll in before issuing reflexive condemnations of bureaucracy.
What would it cost a passenger railroad to be fully prepared for all possible inclement weather situations? Evidently the Europeans fare no better than the Americans, as the Chunnel story above illustrates. Perhaps everyone faces a cost-benefit dilemma rather than a problem of bureaucratic inertia.
The privately owned passenger railroads of old had the same problem. Trains got stuck in the snow then, too. Examples: The GN's Cascades disaster, 1910, and the City of San Francisco in the Sierras, 1952.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Smitty, I definitely do not hate you. In fact I find you interesting.I just get tired of your constant ,well almost constant complaints about Amtrak.I just wish you would let it go. Work out your obsession, As I see it, and move on. I think you could offer a lot if you would just resolve your feelings toward Amtrak. I consider Amtrak as a friend and as any friend no one is perfect.I have had wonderful times with this friend and so I defend it.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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man that snow looks great. being a snowmobiler i am jealous.
-------------------- The Copper Country Limited [Milwaukee Road-Soo Line] and the Peninsula 400 [CNW} still my favorites Posts: 175 | From: FENCE WI USA | Registered: Oct 2000
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Train Lady, as Smitty said about me in another context, "a leopard can't change its stripes." (Or was that "a tiger can't change its spots"?)
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Update from southern New Jersey -- this was the biggest December snowstorm in Philadelphia history, with 23.2 inches recorded at the airport as of this morning.
NJT reports buses are running, slowly, the Atlantic City Line is on time, and the River Line is operating normally except for the street trackage in downtown Camden. Trains are turning back at the Walter Rand Transportation Center (connection to PATCO). PATCO service is normal.
Streets are mostly not yet cleared. Shopping malls are opening around 11 AM today. And we're shoveling lots of snow.
Posts: 614 | From: Merchantville, NJ. USA | Registered: Aug 2000
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Let's further note that the "spinfrau", was probably the "On-Call" spokesman; likely at home and otherwise "marooned". She probably was in no position to give other than the "reflexive" response when media "came a callin'". Likely CNOC in Wilmington is swamped, and without the ability to recall needed staff ("going to war with the Army you have...."). Presuming if anyone there even took her call, she probably got the "spin 'em, honey, were just trying to keep the railroad alive".
But again I have to wonder what that passenger's that called CNN 'agenda' might happen to be: get hired on by CNN?, just 'doing a Salahi'?, or maybe some quick $$$$?
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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You may be amused to hear in Albany NY and the upper Hudson Valley, so far, NO SNOW. It was all to the SOUTH.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Let's further note that the "spinfrau", was probably the "On-Call" spokesman; likely at home and otherwise "marooned".
An 'assumption' I would not have made.
I too have been stranded for hours in all kinds of weather on trains, planes, ships, and even cars. I understand we each observe, suffer through, and report these events differently based on personal experiences and limitations . I didnt call CNN or 911 because it was, what it was. Breakdowns and bad weather happen. I am sure the train conductor and engineer were in contact with authorities, had things under control, and were a little busy. At some point in time we have to surrender to the forces of nature and the authorities, let them do their job, and just suck it up. Too many have made us a nation of whiners when things just dont go perfectly or we are inconvenienced.
The CNN Anchor leads into the dramatic story re-capping misinformation that the train was stuck right outside of Alexandria Va, and according to the on-phone witness they had been stuck for 24-hours. What? Of course that was grossly incorrect and 'she' gives a more accurate time-line, sort of. But that 'story lead in' sticks in the mind of the viewers regardless of what comes next. 'Hey Martha, them train people were stuck on that there train for 24 hours!". The onboard witness did state that the power had gone out for thirty minutes, apparently knew what was going on by the updates she was given and by the details she gave (I can see her now, 'It's been 5 minutes, where's my updated sit-rep?'), but sadly announced that "we were only given a meager small bowl of rice and stew for supper" and noted the 'diabetic patient' and 'children' for effect. Amtrak tortures and starves it's stranded passengers. Bad Amtrak, bad.
If it came down to it I am sure Amtrak would have taken extreme measures to evacuate and rescue these passengers if they thought the train couldnt get underway again and if this case was hopeless.
She also made it a point to declare she was speaking on behalf of the people in her particular train car. All of them? Really? Sounds like she was trying to get her '15 minutes'.
As you noted, the 'on the phone witness' was quick to demand immediate compensation for 'her journey'.
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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I am not as quick to defend Amtrak in these situations as you (dmwnc1959) are. That is probably because we have different experiences in our Amtrak history as passengers. When the train is stuck somewhere for hours, I highly doubt that the crew is "busy". They might be busy once in a while, but for the most part, they are in the crew car drinking coffee with their feet up on the table BS'ing with each other, and that is why the updates never come. As long as they are isolated from the passengers and don't have to listen to what they perceive as "whining", then they stay out of sight. I'm not saying that ALL crews do this---some do not, and are very good with updates about what is going on. But it is all too common for the employees to simply disappear into the crew car and kick back.....it happens all the time.
I also would not assume that Amtrak would take measures if necessary. I can't recall the train or location, but within the last 1 to 3 years, there was an Amtrak train that was stuck in the snow for hours and hours and hours....no power, no food, no restrooms---nothing. When they somehow finally made it to the nearest platform, it was the kindness of the emergency responders and the community that helped those poor passengers. People opened up their homes, off-duty school bus drivers came in at night to bring buses to the station to get the people, they opened up the local school to provide warmth/food/shelter for them, restaurants that were closed were opened up and they made food for the people. Someone on here probably recalls this incident that I'm referring to as it made front page news for a while. Amtrak completely dropped the ball once again, and local townspeople had to rescue them. If anyone recalls this and can find a link to the story, please post it. Thanks.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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I am not defending Amtrak, I am not a cheerleader for Amtrak, and haven't ridden on Amtrak in almost 4 years.
I am however speaking from past experiences of being stopped and stuck/delayed in Montana and ND snowstorms, in the middle of the summer Nevada desert, and in the middle of absolutely 'Nowhere for No Reason'. I took these delays in stride, always came prepared with CD's and a portable DVD player with movies, and my own food. Same for being stuck on the tarmac for 5 hours in a plane, in a highway traffic shutdown because of a jack-knifed tractor trailer for 8 hours, and on a ship for 2 days because of a hurricane. Again, we all take these events based on our personal limitations and expectations.
I have had some pretty bad, even awful experiences with Amtrak, cruise lines, airlines, car rental companies, hotels, and restaurants. But I take it in stride and go back again just in case it was a one-off event beyond their control. If it is a repeat occurrence over time then you have a problem. And if it doesn't change, then I dont go back. Simple as that. I dont call CNN, or 911, and I dont go on chat boards and whine or throw stones to belittle or bad mouth an entire industry because of my bad experience.
And the airlines drop the ball all the time, lose luggage, strand passengers on tarmacs for hours and hours and hours only to return to the terminal they departed from, and fly right past MSP because they were on their computers checking Staff Schedules. Really? On their computers? Airlines raise rates and charge superfluous fees for pillows and meals and drinks and peanuts and headsets. USA Today now reports THOUSANDS, yes, THOUSANDS of flights were cancelled this weekend because of the weather. THOUSANDS. It's gotten so bad with airlines that the Federal Government has had to step in with a proposed Passenger Bill of Rights.
One train compared to THOUSANDS of cancelled flights and countless thousands of passengers stranded in airports sleeping on floors in closed airport terminals.
Now the AP wire is reporting this:
"The breakdowns of four trains in the Channel Tunnel on Friday evening and ensuing cancellations through the weekend were expected to affect some 50,000 people during the busy holiday travel season".
Now THATS a problem. But one train, one phone call from one disgruntled passnger doesnt warrant national headlines.
Having dealt in Customer Relations and having been a Travel Agent for a decade, there is really only so much whining a person can take before you whip out your taser. No, just kidding. About the taser, not the whining. If the train attendants do dissapear for a while into crew car I cant blame them! They are only human.
Like I said, we have become a nation of whiners and expect immediate compensation and freebees for inconveniences and delays. Suck it up. It happens.
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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Can you hear the whistle shrieking through the blinding snow? It's the Flyer, at full speed and coming through!
-------------------- Everybody has to believe in something. I believe I'll take the train! Posts: 230 | From: Ithaca, New York | Registered: May 2009
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We were doing some shopping in a Columbia suburb today. I was astounded to see Train 91, southbound Silver Star flying by at 1:00pm. That's about 12 hours late. It must have been quite an adventure for those passengers. More important than duct tape on a trip like that would be a good book and a bottle of wine.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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What train was that CNN reported was stuck for hours outside Alexandria? I thought it might be the eastbound Cardinal, but see that 51 is not carded to arrive in Alexandria on Saturdays. I'm trying to find out exactly how late that train was getting into Washington.
Other than that dubious CNN report, I have been able to find no other news stories on this incident. (GBN?)
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: What train was that CNN reported was stuck for hours outside Alexandria? I thought it might be the eastbound Cardinal, but see that 51 is not carded to arrive in Alexandria on Saturdays. I'm trying to find out exactly how late that train was getting into Washington.
Other than that dubious CNN report, I have been able to find no other news stories on this incident. (GBN?)
quote:Originally posted by smitty195: #20(19)--Crescent.
Amtrak reported the train arrived WAS 13hrs 32min late.
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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Thanks. If No. 20 and the storm moved to the northeast together, no wonder the train was so late.
20 (19) arrived in Alexandria at 1:24 p.m., almost four hours late, hence the train sat for nine hours without moving.
Anybody know the reason? Drifting snow on the tracks? That was about the height of the storm, wasn't it?
Have there been any witness reports to substantiate the Amtrak press rep's statement that the train had power and provender?
It's curious that there seem to be no other horror stories in the media than that one call to CNN. There may be some but I can't find 'em.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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This is what I came up with for Amtrak 20(19):
Stations, how late, and actual time of arrival:
Salisbury NC - 23 minutes late (3:07am) Danville VA - 43 minutes late (5:26am) Lynchburg VA - 55 mintues late (6:55am) Charlottesville VA - 4hrs 41min late (11:53am) Culpeper VA - 4hrs 55min late (1:03pm) Manassas VA - 5hrs 8min late (1:40pm) Alexandria VA - 12hrs 1min late (9:11pm) WAS Union Station - 13hrs 32min late (11:11pm) Baltimore MD - 13hrs 41min late (12:48am, 12/20) Philadelphia PA - 15hrs 14min late (2:21am) NY Penn Station - 15hrs 10min late (5:12am)
Lynchburg Weather after their departure
Charlottesville VA Weather before and after their departure
Manassas Weather after their departure
Alexandria Weather approx 5hrs prior & up to their arrival
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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The 10 pm news just reported that many people will be spending another night at the airport. Some have been there since Friday and probably won't be able to leave until Wednesday. Most could take the train. I wonder why they don't.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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dmwnc1959, AMEN! Prepare for the worst and ride it out! Delays happen. What can you do about it? Nothing. So don't panic! Amtrak is far from perfect, but so are all the other modes. Travel with contingency. To fail to do so invites missed connections and all sorts of headaches.
I'm headed back east on 48 tomorrow. While shopping for used DVDs this afternoon I heard 281 go by right on time, so even the lines-on-poles Hudson line should be working all right. Today's 48 was 4:50 late getting out of town. If mine is tomorrow, that means a bona fide chance of getting lunch in the diner. Why do so many travelers think that they can whine their way into a better situation?
In the words of a character in the movie Gung Ho, "READ A BOOK!"
Posts: 391 | From: Schenectady | Registered: Jan 2002
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dmnwc (how do you pronounce that, anyway?): Thank you!
I had been entering the date of arrival instead of the date of departure into Amtrak's status board and getting the Sunday times rather than the Saturday ones. More fool me.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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The DMW are my initals, the NC for the state I used to live when I joined Railforum. My first name is David but since there are other"'David's" on here I dont use it.
I was looking at the visibilty of Amtrak 20(19) from the time she left Lynchburg, and more often than not it was 3/10's of a mile (or less?). Is there a visibility rating that stops the trains from proceeding down track, or do they just go very, very slow? I imagine is was near blizzard conditions looking at some of the data above, especially after they departed Manassas.
-------------------- The best part of life is the journey, not the destination. Posts: 497 | From: Clarksburg, West Virginia | Registered: Oct 2003
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We were under a blizzard warning for some time on Saturday. At times they said the visibility was .18 of a mile
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Visibility on track Lynchberg to Alexandria: Visibility should not be much of a factor unless the trains were instructed to approach grade crossing prepared to stop or some such because of the visibility. Frozen switches could have been a stopper, as could tree limbs down on the track.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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they announced a while ago that snow on the tracks and frozen switches were the problems
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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I assume operating rules require at least slowing to restricted speed, but passing a signal without reading it would be a violation in itself. If the signal is dark, they have to stop and get dispatcher permission to proceed at restricted speed ready to stop at the next one. You can't just assume it's clear. Grade crossing signals fail also, so they'll have to be flagged. There is ample opportunity to lose time there.
Posts: 391 | From: Schenectady | Registered: Jan 2002
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