posted
Enjoy - looking forward to hearing about it when you return.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Gil, my joyride intrastate is getting closer as my Census job is winding down. Probably go Palatka-Winter Garden and return, down on the Meteor and up on the Star via Tampa.
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Gilbert! So we're to understand that you are taking CONO down to Jackson and immediately turning around and coming back? In other words, the train trip is the get-away? If so, a wonderful step to take; you'll love it!
Tom
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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What type of accommodations are you availing yourself of? Best regards...and bon voyage Rodger
Posts: 112 | From: Merrimac, MA | Registered: Nov 2007
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I love the song Jackson by Johnny & June Carter Cash (and I also love the one about the Big-Mouthed Woman, Long-Legged Guitar Strutting Man; and I thought Walk the Line was the best music bio film I've seen in a while, maybe ever. . . . ) Still, I believe the Jackson they are singing about is Jackson, TN. But I would still bring along the song to listen to on your trip . . . not to mention "City of New Orleans" and "Pan American Boogie" and maybe even "Battle of New Orleans," "Born on the Bayou," and some Louis Armstrong . . . though you may want to watch out about bringing Fats Domino's "Walking to New Orleans," just in case it slows down the trip a bit!
Have a good one.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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By the way, I believe the "Jackson" that Johnny and June sing about is Jackson, Tennessee, not Jackson, Mississippi!!! Thanks for the You Tube clip!!
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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Consist was P-42, T-Dorm (no revenue space) Sleeper, 2 370XXX Diner Lounges (one as Diner, other as Lounge - absolute waste of space) 3 Coaches.
Steak was prepared on-board and "as you like it'. When I saw the Chef on the platform @ JAN, I thanked him for a good meal. He said the excellent Green Beans were prepared on-board and delivered fresh to the train by the commissary.
Plasticware, but metal flatware, I think Simplified Dining has gone adios.
A bad, I can no longer say I'm batting a 1000 on showers - little in the way of hot water.
58(7) will of course be different equipment.
Ms. Sojourner, you would like Jackson; it is very compact (I've already walked its length and breadth will be after Lunch here at Marriott). Of interest to anyone who has traveled through Jackson, that abandoned hotel adjacent to the train station, the King Edward, has reopened as a Hilton Garden. I walked into its Lobby - and it looks sharp.
Well time's about up and I'm not buying anymore.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Does the CONO use a baggage car or do they have space for baggage in the basement of one of the Superliner Coaches?
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Happy trails! Looking forward to the report when you're back at MP 18.34.
On Amtrak's Facebook page today, they posted some comments about how great their food is in the Dining Car. I will say that their desserts are pretty good, but the main entrees? Ick....Just my opinion though.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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From Marriott Business Center Jackson MS (pay to play)--
31005 was in consist of 59(6) and used as Coach Baggage. However, the door to the Baggage compartment was open; so much for the security of checked baggage.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by smitty195: On Amtrak's Facebook page today, they posted some comments about how great their food is in the Dining Car. I will say that their desserts are pretty good, but the main entrees? Ick....Just my opinion though.
My personal opinion is that very few passengers who have recent memories of a long trip in coach on virtually any US flag air carrier will be much inclined to complain about Amtrak dining car fare....
Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
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Ah, but let's not forget about Virgin America Airlines! Their food is outstanding!! It's like the good old days of air travel. Their first class food is fine dining, and the coach food is "on demand" through your TV screen. Their caterer makes some great stuff. Have a meal on-board VA, and then have a meal on-board Amtrak......let me know what you like better.
(Plus, all of VA's aircraft have Go-Go inflight WiFi for your laptop or smart phone. I use it all the time, and the speed is FAST!)
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Northward 58(7) was certainly the better of the two regarding equipment. Consist was the usual seven cars and 1 P-42, however, Lounge 33024 was in consist in place of a 370XX Diner used as such.
Guess what, I actually spent sometime in the Lounge from Arcola to Champaign as I wanted to see my Alma Mater and those occupying the Roomette opposite mine believed hall curtains were meant to be shut.
20 ML late into CUS account delays on the Air Line to X the CRI&P and owing to that delay the slot to enter the BNSF at Halstead St for the backup was blown.
All told equipment goes to NB 58, staff in both directions "did their jobs'; that's all - tipped according to my scale. Cuisine a stand off. steak SB 59 was "a bit over', but the Green Beans - fresh and well prepared with an extra spice. NB steak "on the mark', but the Green Beans I think came out of the can or the micro.
People; SB; first a young girl about 25 UofIllinois graduate '07 in Finance, but lost her job a year ago and since then its been waitressing and bar tending (in a way my thoughts go out to these young people who played by the rules and then The System "----s them') in Champaign. She was occupying the Family Room herself - and paid for it. Reason, no Coach seats open and this was the only space (nothing sold in the Trans-Dorm) and she had to get back to Champaign to go camping with her friends. Also at Brfst and in my car, I met a lady who has got to be the Chris Guenzler of waterway cruising (her Father was a towboat Captain). She said (and I have no reason to dispute) that she has been on every waterway cruise sailing in North America.
Yup, "Steamboatin'' has its fans - and is just as heavily subsidized as Amtrak (infrastructure).
On this trip, she was going to sail from Mobile up the Alabama and Tombigbee to the Tennessee to the Ohio, to Old Man River, thence the Illinois to Chicago. She resides in Guttenberg IA - on the Miss.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I thought that the company that had operated the Delta Queen and her offspring had gone.... uhm...
drydock?
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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That was a quick trip! But of all things, I have to admit that I'm curious about the green beans. I can easily tell the difference between canned and fresh, and it sounds like you can as well, Gil. I wonder how they are able to get fresh in one direction, and canned in the other?
I'm running out to the Oakland yard this evening, and I'm going to see if I can find anyone in the commissary to ask that question to. I doubt they'll know, since they only stock the Starlight, Zephyr, and Capitols/San Jackos....but I'm curious as to the answer.
Glad you had a good trip. That's one train that I've never taken.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: Steamboatin' is still around?
Yes, we sure would not want our own GBN to fall into a card game with one of those "steamboat gamblers." That might be a hard game to win...
Gil, did you notice the quadruple RR-Xing at Tolono,IL? Utah Phillips sang about it in an old railroad song:
"I got off at Tolono, just below Champaign, a flagstop on the edge of yesterday..."
The tiny Tolono depot is long gone; but you can still see the ruins of the stone foundation. Discovered it one day while doing some IL RR "archaeology..."
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Somehow I remember the green beans and mash potato - IIRC even during simplified dining, it was customary for a southern chef to add a bit of "zing" to the food. Where (s)he got those from, and whether (s)he paid for them out of their own pocket, I don't know. But it certainly added "pizazz" to it.
I think CN did the same to the track as well.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by Railroad Bob: Gil, did you notice the quadruple RR-Xing at Tolono,IL?
For once in my life, I was actually in the Lounge other than merely to walk through it,
I was there from Arcola to Champaign as I wanted to see my Alma Mater. This included the WAB-IC diamond and interchange at Tolono, which I definitely noted (took WAB/N&W to both Detroit and StL from there during my years at U of Ill)
But the Lounge car is the Lounge car. Even though S-I 33024 has been attractively redone, it is still the Lounge car with youngsters sprawled out on the 2 place setees looking aimlessly at their "electronic playthings".
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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In May, when I went RT on the Crescent to Atlanta, I recall finding the green beans being much better southbound than the other way; I thought the chef was really good because of it!
Mr Norman I have been to Jackson, and reported on it here--did an overnight to visit the capitol on my way to New Orleans the long way last year. I did not realize you were detraining; I would have recommended the inn where I stayed for lunch; I had one of the most excellent southern meals there, and very reasonable, shrimp n grits very well prepared, and some wonderful bread pudding too. It was right downtown. Sorry I did not include it in my earlier post.
RRRich seems like me to think the song is about Jackson TN too. I'm pretty sure I heard that somewhere; and though Mr Cash was orginally from Arkansas he lived mostly in Tennessee, so that makes sense. I suppose there are Jackson's all over the country, of course, not to mention Jacksonville, Jackson Hole . . . .
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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This thread piqued my curiousity about the riverboats again (not hard to do since most of the relatives on my mother's side spent most of their lives in Louisville, KY) so I went off on an internet search for the steamboats most recently operated by the now bankrupt Majestic Lines.
The Delta Queen, as reported above, is a floating hotel/entertainment spot in Chattanooga, TN. I recall controversy about 18 months ago when the company was not granted an extended waiver allowing them to continue carrying river passengers overnight on a wooden boat.
The American Queen..... the largest of the fleet built new in the 1990's is for sale 'as is' in Beaumont, TX.
And, sadly, the Mississippi Queen, built new in the 1970's, was sold for scrap metal and hauled by tugboat to a scrapyard in New Orleans not quite three weeks ago.
The Mississippi Queen ran into 'rough waters' in 2006 or maybe 2007....I only scanned the article... when a number of passengers took ill (food poisoning maybe?) on a cruise and had to be taken off the boat for medical care in St. Louis. The boat finished it's season without further incident BUT was withdrawn from service and much of the interior was gutted that winter with a full renovation.....including converting a number of the economy cabins into luxary suites..... planned.
Then the economy swooned and advance bookings tanked. Plans for renovation were shelved, the company went bellyup, and ownership of the floating remnants passed to a Canadian firm which recently decided that the prudent decision was to cut their losses on the scrap metal market rather than invest in making the boat 'passenger-ready' again.
Very sad to see something so pretty and so relatively new go to scrap. I'll bet the men in Roanoke felt much the same way seeing their class J locomotives head for the scrapyard in the late 1950's.
To my knowledge, no one is now offering overnight cruises on any of America's great rivers. I might ought to plan a daytrip on the steamboat 'Belle of Louisville' while I still can!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ms. Sojourner, I searched your postings using keyword Jackson and author Sojourner and only came up with you were contemplating a trip to Jackson.
But all told, I thought of you when I noted the station was in an adequately good neighborhood (and it appears getting better with a little Stimulus funding and with developers placing a big bet to renovate the long closed King Edward Hotel adjacent to the station as a mixed-use facility with the hotel marketed under the Hilton Garden brand). It is not more than a mile from the station to the Old Capitol museum and not more than same to the "new" Capitol and State office complex.
But alas, I'm not into culinary adventures, so I gravitated to what I know - the Marriott on Amity St for a turkey club sandwich Lunch, use of their Business Center computer (15min for $5.95), and a Chardonnay or two at their bar. After my hike to the Capitol, I found a park bench at an attractive (well patrolled) downtown park at Amite and West to read my New York Times (leftover Sunday).
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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David there is a great day river boat trip out of Chatanooga called the Southen Belle. I think there re different lengths and possibly a dinner cruise. It cruises the Tennessee river. We reallly enjoyed it.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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I don't know how searches work, but I'm surprised I didn't post on my New Orleans trip--are you sure? I have a memory of doing so. When I made that trip, I stopped in Jackson. I thought it was an OK city (and I loved the inn we stayed in, and the meal there) but it was really not the most scintillating of the places (or even the capitals) I've visited. I liked Montgomery AL much better, for example--thought there was much more to see & do. (I got there by going to Atlanta and then by car with a friend.) I would have liked to have had a car in Jackson and gone to the neighborhood where Eudora Welty lived--did not get there.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Thanks Mr. Mayo; I wonder why keyword Jackson and author Sojourner did not return such.
Oh and finally lest anyone wonder, the fare paid was $470.40. While I think it ill-advised to quote fares for future travel (and I prohibited such during my terms as Moderator over at another forum), when the trip is complete and the transportation contract fulfilled, I have no problem with that.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Sounds like a good trip, GBN. I'm glad to hear that the King Edward hotel is being renovated. That alone might be worth the trip. On my 'drive by' on the CONO it looked like it was once a fine place to stay back in the day.
But then you would have likely taken the Chicago to Jackson sleeper on IC's all Pullman, Panama Ltd. Occupancy was permitted until 8am so one didn't have to be disturbed at the uncivilized 6am arrival.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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While I never had occasion to ride the Jackson sleeper, I did once during 1962 use the (NB only) Memphis car. The 10-5 car was added so smoothly to the #6's, Panama, consist that I felt absolutely, positively, nothing.
SB, that car was handled in the consist of #3, Louisiane.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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That was quite a slick switching maneuver, GBN. I was on that car in 1965. During its 10 minute station stop, one switcher pulled up behind the Panama as it entered the station (and still moving) to remove the observation. The other switcher had the Memphis car and crossed over to add it as soon as the first switcher cleared. The observation was then recoupled.
Presumably the same type move was required when the parlor car (today's business class - but with 1-1 seating) was added in Carbondale early the next morning for all those Chicago commuters who wanted to travel in style.
I wonder how long it would take Amtrak to make those moves.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Mr. Palmland, the Carbondale move was actually more complicated than either the Jackson or Memphis; for here, in addition to the Parlor being added to the consist of #6, a New Orleans-St Louis Pullman line was removed.
Oh and the IC Parlor Car attractively decorated in a New Orleans motif, that was my regular to get between Champaign and Chicago; just a little less suds at Kam's and the $$$ were there to ride it.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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GBN, took me a minute to realize you weren't off on a new joyride. But I guess the Carbondale switching maneuver wouldn't be that much more difficult than in Memphis. The St. Louis car must have been just ahead of the observation. So the switcher would pull off both cars, set the sleeper over, then recouple the obs after a second switcher added the parlor, as in Memphis.Remarkable that the IC could do that multiple times on a train with a tight schedule. Of course their 100mph racetrack made it easier. Maybe some day our HSR initiatives will get us back to that.
I remember walking through the parlor car on the way to the obs in the morning before Chicago arrival. I was surprised at how 'civilized' it was as business types in a crowded car were into their newspapers and the car was very quiet. Wonder if you were sitting there.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: While I never had occasion to ride the Jackson sleeper, I did once during 1962 use the (NB only) Memphis car. The 10-5 car was added so smoothly to the #6's, Panama, consist that I felt absolutely, positively, nothing.
SB, that car was handled in the consist of #3, Louisiane.
Mr. Norman:
Somehow did not see this post earlier, however there was a drop off sleeper southbound at Memphis, at least to as late as about 1960. My parents came in on it from St. Louis sometime in 1958 or thereabouts. I recall that they had to be in coach from St. Louis to Carbondale as there was no drop off sleeper to Memphis from St. Louis. Northbound, they had gotten on the through New Orleans to St. Louis sleeper, just having to wait for the northbound train to arrive.
Went with my grandfather to pick them up. They showed me the bedroom. I was amazed at how compact it was.
The Louisiane carried a Chicago - Memphis sleeper both ways as part of its normal consist. The Louisiane could be quite a long train north of Memphis into the early 1960's. South of Memphis it was usually 2 to 4 coaches.
Somewhere I have a 1962 ICRR passenger timetable, so some day I will be able to check whether the southbound drop off sleeper was still going.
(Never did understand why neither New York Central nor Pennsylvania tried to run a City of New Orleans type day train between NYC and Chi.)
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Mr. Harris, with a December 1956 IC Public Timetable in hand, I note that #5 handled a Memphis TO New Orleans line (a 10-5) which was handled on #8, Creole, Northbound. At that time, the only Chicago-Memphis lines were handled on 7-8, Louisiane. A St Louis Memphis line was handled on #15, Chicksaw.
Reviewing October 1962 IC PTT, the Pullman lines were "as I knew 'em" during my UofI days (as noted above, always happy to do with a few less suds at Kam's in exchange for a Parlor Car ride on the Panama). I cannot find any reference to a drop off from #5, Panama, at Memphis.
Now regarding Mr. Harris' related thought as to why the only long distance daylight route out there was the City of New Orleans was simply (as both Messrs. Haithcoat and Harris knows far better than I) still a vestige of the Northern migration of African-Americans (various works of Studs Terkel well portrays the Socio-Economic conditions for the migration). Often the trip was from, say, Grenada MS, and not 'bumper to 12th St'(Central Sta was not a terminal - that was Randolph St or, whoops, Millennium Station in METRAese). Although the PRR and NYC did operate all-Coach trains, Trail Blazer and Pacemeker respectively, they were on overnight schedules roundly emulating those of the Broadway and Century.
Returning to the City, even if there laws on the books saying segregation was outlawed, be assured it was in practice aboard the City. Depending upon UNOWAT, you were either directed to have a seat forward or rear of the Diner that was usually about 2/3rds through the consist towards the rear. There was also a Cafe car placed near the head for passengers who were "directed" to sit on that side of the Diner. The Obs-Lounge was essentially "off-limits' to the majority of passengers.
posted
Isabel Wilkerson's new book "The Warmth of Other Suns" (one of the 10 best books of 2010 in the estimation of the New York Times Book Review) describes one such trip north from Mississippi on the old IC during the Great Migration.
According to a Pullman porter on one such run, Jim Crow ended at Cairo, Illinois, where black passengers were permitted to sit anywhere on the train. I'm not sure of either train or year, however; it probably came after the conditions GBN describes, and probably involved non-luxury trains.
I recommend this book to everyone. It's a gripping testimonial to human endurance and is extraordinarily readable.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Incidentially, GBN (and Lex Noir) has a "joyride" scheduled for 53(20). Sat the 19th will be to Cleveland for a concert, Sun will be a "tense' Cleveland-Lorton drive to make the 3PM closing.
Bad weather could result in a scrubbing of the whole thing. The Cleveland Orchestra will have a Charitable Contribution (God knows, these rust belt orchestras need them - Detroit is likely "done for" and Pittsburgh now finds the Symphony playing 'back up" for a production of "Hair" - complete with "brief nudity' in Heinz Hall), and I'll be stung with cancellation charges on Auto Train - but that's life.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Wow, GBN, that doesn't sound fun - PA Turnpike in winter and DC beltway all before noon. Rather than risk a scrub, you could always take a SW 1 hour nonstop from Hopkins to Reagan and rent a car for AT.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: .........and rent a car for AT.
I've previously reported here that DPM once did just that!
Since DPM was also an airfan (anyone else remeber Kalmbach's short lived Airliners?), he and Margaret had a journey of fly KMKE-KDCA, rent, AT, then KMCO-KMKE.
However when he did this journey during 1972, auto rentals had a time AND mileage rate base rather than the customary time only prevalent today. He had to do some very quick explaining to a quite skeptical auto rental employee as to how did a car rented at National end up at McCoy with only 60 additional miles on the OD?
Suffice to say, the employee had never heard of Auto Train, but DPM had enough documentation to keep the authorities at bay.
As for my upcoming, simply because I'm by Jct of of 495 and 95 by 2PM does not mean I'm "home free'. It's Sunday and who knows what traffic jams there will be near that large outlet mall Potomac Mills?
I'm already watching advance weather forecasts; the Local NBC 'weather girl' (at least they didn't christen her with some name like "Merry Sunshine' - just Ginger Zee - apparently a shortened Dutch name - Zuidervandersloot, perchance?) presently forsees no major weather problems.
It will be tense.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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give yourself plenty of time near Potomac Mills. that place is a zoo most of the time but weekends are especially bad. So far the weather for that week is mid -upper 40s and sunny but it could change.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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