I recently took the Adirondack from NYP to MTR and was appalled by the food in the cafe car. Although the attendance was friendly enough, I must say I would not give that food to a homeless person let alone a domesticated animal.
Whatever food that seemed remotely edible (i.e. prepackaged salads) were gone within an hour of departure, so I can't comment on that, except to say the price seemed outrageous.
Sooooo, whatever happened to the Bush-era idea of farming out the cafe to the Subway Sandwich shop?
Lately, I have been traveling mostly by air (after 15 years straight of Amtrak) and I have been delighted with the healthy, nutritious and filling sandwiches that a cheerful Subway employee can throw together under the most dismal conditions.
Subway has sandwich-making down to a fine science and I find it hard to believe that they couldn't pull this off on a train.
And if that wasn't bad enough, I found the food that was available at the busy railroad station in Albany to be as bad, if not worse, than what I found on the train.
What's the problem here? Is it the railroad unions? Does Amtrak think that now they've got stimulus money they can totally ignore the food situation?
Inquiring minds want to know. Thank you.
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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If I recall correctly, the Subway Sandwich thing lasted for exactly one day. The unions hated having the competition on the train, and they made it go away. It's too bad, because I agree with you. Some of the AmFood is horrible, but if you just want a quick sandwich, Subway is fine. I have taken a lot of road trips over the last few years, and it was quite obvious that Subway has strategically taken over the road traveling market. Even at offramps in the middle of nowhere, there would be a Subway located within a gas station. They are EVERYWHERE along the highways.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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We even found one in Dunedin, New Zealand! It was a very wet Sunday and most restaurants weren't open yet so we popped in and had a great lamb sandwich with mint sauce.
Frank in soon to be wet SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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I have become a fan of Subway over the last few months of dieting. Fast, quick, sometimes delicious but never particularly fattening.
Am I the new Jared? Not hardly....... but I now, for the first time in two decades, am the same weight I was when I enlisted in the US Army in the 1980's.....
I am NOT the same emaciated figure that emerged from basic training 8 weeks later..... nor do I expect Subway and Weight Watchers to do for me what the US Army did nearly a quarter-century ago!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: I have become a fan of Subway over the last few months of dieting. Fast, quick, sometimes delicious but never particularly fattening.
Watch out for the Meatball Marinara - heart attack in a sandwich with over 75% of your recommended DAILY salt intake!
I suspect the idea of made-while-you-wait wouldn't work on a train where you have a somewhat limited audience yet have to have lots of fresh ingredients for variety. Now, if they prepared a batch of sandwiches upon departure with top-ups along the way from en-route Subway outlets then perhaps that could work.
Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Coming back from chicago on the cardinal a few years ago we got to the "diner" club car to discover the hard rain storm the night before had gone through the roof and all the water landed on the stoves. so At lunch time the train stopped in, I think it was Charleston, and they got Subway sandwiches for all the sleeping car people. We were asked in advance what we wanted..ham, roast beef, or turkey. Actually they were quite good and filling. The food was waiting at the station and loaded on very quickly.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: I have become a fan of Subway over the last few months of dieting. Fast, quick, sometimes delicious but never particularly fattening.
Watch out for the Meatball Marinara - heart attack in a sandwich with over 75% of your recommended DAILY salt intake!
In the many Subway visits I have made in the past 9 months I have had the meatball sub just one time...... normally it's the roast chicken or turkey that I have.... and only with lettuce and tomato.... no condiments. (to make a pun.... 'hold the mayo!'
Don't get me wrong..... I'm not seeking out Subways left and right..... but if I'm on the road and need a quick lunch or if I'm out of town at a conference, Subway joints are everywhere and they are pretty consistent from one to the next. I have had success taking 20 years of additional poundage off by, in part, choosing Subways over your typical fast food joints.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Allow me to return the discussion to labor issues of Contracting Out (outsourced in newspeak) that I personally believe represents the heart of the matter.
I formerly held that there were two crafts on a railroad property that were immune to contracting out; those were Train and Engine, but even today, and likely starting with what I consider to be a groundbreaking event in railroad labor relations of Amtrak employed T&E operating over a railroad in what could be construed as violation of the Union Shop, i.e. they hold seniority, but not on the railroad over which operating.
But even during "my day" in railroad Labor Relations, Contracting Out was a "thorn'. Generally, contracting out was a 'White" area if specialized equipment (and I'm not talking about having to go rent a backhoe for a specific MofW project) is needed. That is why work within MofW such as rail detection (Sperry Rail) and clearing wrecks (Hulcher, RJ Corman) are customarily contracted out as the equipment and expertise is specialized with each of those activities.
Closer to the topic, Amtrak regularly contracts out MofW and MofE activities and no doubt some cross that "Grey" line. I can recall learning of a work stoppage at Beech Grove over installation of some chain link fencing. Major contracting out such as rebuilding of Amfleets (Capstone) and Diners (Timonsia SA) had to be carefully negotiated with the Shop Crafts; both likely represented an Amtrak position that there was design work for new interiors involved with each rebuild program. No doubt with the rebuilding of cars funded by ARRA'09 appropriations, the Union's "friends on The Hill' simply said "no contracting out' - especially since so many of the jobs created by ARRA are public sector.
Now we address this "Black" area and that is contracting out the serving (as distinct from purveying) of Food and Beverage aboard trains. People ("Critters' GWB) hardly in the know of labor ramifications were applying "the heat' to Amtrak management and Amtrak had no alternative but to take the action even though I'm sure some @ 60 Mass could foresee the outcome (I did, and I am on record here to that effect).
Where new services have been established such as DownEaster and Piedmont, a contracting out position can be sustained in view of that there was no previous Amtrak service over those routes - and in fact no railroad service in "many many a moon". It would be difficult to sustain a contracting out position where additional Locally funded services have been added to pre-existing Amtrak service over a route (Surfliners; some of those runs are still Federally funded, hence F&B on all trains is provided by Amtrak employees) .
In short, the Empire Service F&B Contracting Out initiative was one more case of both Bush administration and Congressional "micromanaging'; the all-time success rate of which I will say is ZERO. While some lessons regarding economic and efficient food service while still making same attractive to paying passengers have been learned from the SDS initiative, the #370XX Diner-Lounges have proven to be an absolute waste. Wisely to date, and hopefully still after the political landscape drastically changes come next January, the Obama administration and its "leashed" Congress have avoided any missteps and have allowed Amtrak's core of professional managers to run the railroad in the best interest of taxpayers and passengers.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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On the Canadian back in 2008, we stopped at Sioux Lookout, Ontario -- the only town of any significance for miles and miles and miles of the Canadian Shield "Outback" -- and guess what the first thing I noticed in town across from the VIA station was? That's right -- a Subway restaurant!!!
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by RRRICH: On the Canadian back in 2008, we stopped at Sioux Lookout, Ontario -- the only town of any significance for miles and miles and miles of the Canadian Shield "Outback" -- and guess what the first thing I noticed in town across from the VIA station was? That's right -- a Subway restaurant!!!
Well then, I'll add Sioux Lookout to my list of rail destinations worth a stopover! I know I won't go hungry there!
And Mr. Norman, your post steering us back on course is duly noted. Sadly the contracting out of F&B services on the NCDOT Piedmonts was also a failed experiment. The live attendant dishing out sodas, snacks, and hot North Carolina BBQ sandwiches has been replaced by the latest incarnation of the dreaded automat car.
I'm making a Raleigh-Charlotte roundtrip on 75 and 76 this Saturday and am planning, quite frankly, to pack a lunch.
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Good info, GBN. I was "around" Amtrak during some of these changes and saw various labor "progressions" regarding contracting out, etc. I recall in the 80s/early 90s most if not all food/bev supply and services was done "in house" by Amtrak commisaries, staffed by gen-yoo-ine Amtrak employees of various crafts-- remember the days when Amtrak chefs actually cooked and carved! the Prime Rib and skilled waiters served it up Au Jus to the appreciative customers? Alas, condemnage and yes, pilferage skyrocketed in that era- trucks would roll up to loading docks and in one case, I recall a big LA "charity" outfit was caught loading up "liquor kits" along with the aging meats, bread, fruits, veggies and desserts! Those days gave way to outside outfits such as Gate Gourmet; crews were reduced and we all know meal quality generally suffered. Early Amtrak LH diners had a Chef + 3 food specialists below, and a Steward and 3 waiters above; who used heavy china, linen and silverware too. Big crews were necessary for another reason- did you guys know that some pre-Superliner diners cooked with "presto logs?" Kidding you not; the "3rd cooks" job included "stoking the fire" for the Chef- and he wanted that grill perfect for those made-to-order omelets he was going to be awe-ing the hungry passengers with! <Sigh- I know, I know> Another oddity- diner coffee was made with "live steam" to a giant urn from the train's steam line; I recall an old Chef cracking a raw egg on top of the grounds as his personal "trick" to make better coffee- yeah, it worked. (!)
There were some other experiments along the way- airline style microwave meals; how about microwaved scrambled eggs, anyone? I recall the "Subway" experiment; it did just last a day or two. One of the arguments rail unions made was the minimum-wage Subway employees did not have RR "safety training" ie., they did not know how to walk on a moving train with hot liquids, and so on. Those ppl were quickly "disappeared." There was some credence to that argument; I've also seen waiters on the Amer. Orient Express go down the aisle with a hot coffee pot in EACH hand, an absolute Amtrak safety "no-no" to this day-- gotta keep "one hand free" was the constant method Amtrak taught in its on-board training. There was a good reason for requiring that, as an SA would learn after the first emer. stop or huge train lurch.
My personal favorite for sandwich shops is Quizno's or even Panera- both I believe to be superior to Subway's "heavy on lettuce, with micro-thin sliced meat" approach. Quizno's bread products seem more substantial than Subway, to me. But I do use the Subway in Frank's SBA just down from the station when I make my SBA "turns." I do really like it when they sell the 12 inchers for $5- hard to beat that deal!
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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Thanks for pumping money into the local economy! That Subway in the Hotel State Street building is certainly handy but by roaming just a bit further UP State Street you'd find several other good options like Hamburger Habit (started in Goleta but now with several locations in Santa Barbara and Ventura County). Or head down to the wharf. At the far end is the Santa Barbara Shellfish Company. Very casual and good food.
I've got to correct a common misconception. Most commercial airline meals have never been microwaved. The ovens are mostly convection or, in a few cases, steam. I do remember the early Continental 747's had a microwave or two but they were for making popcorn for the Pub and Diamond Head and Ponape Lounges and for warming up food that wasn't hot enough for the guest's taste. And for "thawing" ice cream that had suffered from an overload of dry ice. And, yes, they also did cook the roast onboard and carve it in the aisle.
Frank in sunny SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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People the days of the 20th Century Limited are long past. And Airline Food in coach has been eliminated, (today people have begun to bring fast food onto planes, great) Subway would be perfect for train travel and Subway knows how to serve and prepare food efficiently. Many stations have them Subway stores in them. The Union hated the idea, well that about sums it up. Sure the Subway server would be paid much less then the four conductors sitting drinking coffee for much of the trip but times they are a changing.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Geoff Mayo: Now, if they prepared a batch of sandwiches upon departure with top-ups along the way from en-route Subway outlets then perhaps that could work.
Which turns out exactly what they did, except it was on short-haul trips so no need for top-ups.
quote:Originally posted by notelvis: (to make a pun.... 'hold the mayo!'
Given that my surname is Mayo and I particularly dislike the stuff... yeah.
quote:Originally posted by smitty195: If I recall correctly, the Subway Sandwich thing lasted for exactly one day. The unions hated having the competition on the train, and they made it go away.
Six days apparently. Giving in to the unions is a sorry state of affairs, particularly when nobody was displaced as a result of the idea (there had been no food service for months on the trial trains). Now, if Amtrak cafe employees were let go in order to use Subway then I could understand the fuss, but when you have a food service car then surely it would be better to USE it to serve food, particularly when it's a good marketing tool.
Sigh.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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One minor correction.....airline food in coach has not been totally eliminated. Fly with Virgin America, and you have "on demand" service from your TV screen. Slide your credit card through the slot, and you touch the screen and select what you'd like to eat. The order goes wirelessly to a flight attendant, who brings the food to your seat. Check out VA's website---somewhere in there they show their current menu. They serve great stuff.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Many other carriers offer food for sale (F4S in the lingo) but Virgin America has the most sophisticated system that I know of.
Continental has been the last holdout among the legacy carriers offering complimentary "meals at mealtime" in the economy class cabin on all flights. That will end on October 12th when they, too, will go to "Food For Sale". There will be some exceptions such as most international flights and domestic flights longer than six hours. (EWR-HNL comes to mind.)
Bob Six is rolling in his grave.
Frank in sunny and soon to be warm SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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There's actually a bit of history on Presto Logs in Porterfield's <i>Dining by Rail</b>. In the 1930s or so, railroads were looking from an alternative to coal, and had experimented with electricity and bottled gas. The problems were electric was not reliable, and compression of gas just wasn't as great as it is now.
Presto Logs burned hot, clean, and inexpensive!
High speed, low drag combi-convection ovens are an invention since Superliner diners deployed. Today, there is less of a reason to have a wood-fired stove than there was, but you still need the charcoal broiler for the steaks ;-)
As to Tanner: When I pay $200 a night for my sleeper room on Amtrak, something had better justify my subsidizing the coach passengers!
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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There's a food revolution going on in America and it appears to be starting with the public school's cafeterias.
(Incidentally, when I was a child, my mother packed me off to school with a paper bag that contained my lunch. I was a finicky kid: I insisted on an easy-over egg sandwich on buttered white bread. An apple and some chips and I was good to go.)
Jamie Oliver (a famous English cook) has, apparently, had some success in getting schools to feed the starving, diminutive masses healthy food in the cafeterias. This truly does constitute a food revolution and it shouldn't end with school cafeterias.
Now, getting back to the trains and the train stations: I see no reason why the unions should hold us passengers hostage and prevent us from eating reasonably healthy food like the kind that Subway Restaurants provide.
Don't get me wrong. I don't begrudge a loyal union member from making an enormous salary for working on the railroad. The more money the merrier, I say.
What bugs me is that "the Union" is preventing me from eating a decent meal in the cafe car (or the local railroad station) because of politics, pure and simple. If "the Union" can't do the job, then they need to move over and let somebody else take over.
My basic human and (for all I know) constitutional right to eat a healthy and nutritious meal in the cafe car is being violated by somebody who feels his job is being threatened.
In short: DON'T PASSENGERS HAVE A RIGHT TO EAT DECENT FOOD IN THE CAFE CAR? (sorry to shout but "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!!")
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Charles, I agree, food on the short-distance routes should be improved. I don't know that Subway would be so great; depends how fresh it is. Frankly, I'd rather see some really fresh wraps (inc whole wheat) and I sure wish Amtrak got a better healthier brand of yogurt and carried lots more fresh fruit. I actually think Amtrak has tried a few improvements (the salads, for instance) and hopefully will be trying more. What irritates me most is that items like the salad run out so quickly. . . . But also, they do seem kind of pricey. . . .
Which is why, when I ride coach, or on a short-distance train for enough time that I will want food on the train, I almost always bring my own food. I realize that you left from NYP so early in the morning that that might have been difficult if you were staying in a hotel without a fridge. Still, I probably would have bought some fruit the night before, and some of those Tate's chocolate chip cookies, even if I didn't have time in the morning to stop at a deli (not in Penn Station) to pick up a sandwich of some kind.
If pressed on the train, I might have the hummus, if that hasn't run out.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Back in days when I actually rode Amtrak long haul trains to get around this great country of ours, I did pack my own food. I tried all sorts of things including fresh food, packed in ice-lined styrofoam chests. On one excruciating tour, I even attempted freeze dried food, and revied it by boiling water wherever I could find an available outlet.
Looking back, I fondly call this my "living like a refugee" period and I don't want to ever repeat it. Packing a picnic for one or two meals is fine, but it gets old fast and there's always the risk of food poisoning.
And yes, I agree, there are things that Subway Corporation could do to improve their sandwiches, I suppose. But as one who does not eat fast food as a rule, I think they do just fine and the only reason I mention their name is because I think they are the only ones that can pull this off.
By the way, I am not adverse to eating in the dining car and usually do. The Adirondack does not have a dining car, however. Nor does the Acela, for that matter.
But even the dining car ain't what it used to be. I may not be one of the older timers on this board but, by God, I ate the Barbequed Ribs on The Southwest Chief before they became a fond memory and they were definitely gourmet faire.
Anyway, I have read the replies to my initial rant and I must say that I have the impression that we have all been worn down by the forces of mediocrity.
We deserve much better than what we're getting and most of us are willing to pay the price for quality.
And, as was wisely mentioned in one of the replies, Subway Restaurants are ubiquitous along every stop that Amtrak makes. They could just load up on sandwiches and sell it to the public. I can buy a footlong sandwich for $5 and I would gladly pay a 25% markup to have it handed to me by a union representative of Amtrak.
Geez, all I want is to fill my stomach with something that won't give the blasters! Is that asking too much?
Incidentally, I really don't have anything against the unions. I used to be a union member myself: A proud member of the Internation Brotherhood of Typographers and I owe a lot to them. However, the IBT went the way of the buggywhip after they were absorbed into the CWA and even my division of the CWA eventually called in the NLRB to free themselves of the bonds of the union.
I understand it is tough to be a railroad man and I salute their desire to make good money. To be honest, I have never spoken to many attendants that made much more than $14/hour.
But I digress. What is important is our stomachs when we are traveling. Not whether the cafe attendant is making a living wage.
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Chuck, I would never suggest packing food for more than a day for the reasons you mention. But the Adirondack is only a day train, so if you could manage to have breakfast before boarding and take food for lunch, you'd be OK; I'd never suggest taking food for dinner too, since Montreal has such glorious food! (We've never gotten in too late to have dinner there but in case we do, I do always take a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or some cookies or something.) But if you could find a place near Penn Station where you could have a quick breakfast & pick something up to take with you for lunch, that was just the advice I was giving. At that hour that would mean a simple deli, I imagine that is probably all that might be open; I'll see if I can find info about one. Because even if all you take is some fruit and a bagel and cream cheese, it would be fresher and tastier than the microwaved bagel on board the train. (BTW, I do think the coffee on the train is quite good; it's just the food that is bad, and worse, runs out a lot.) As for coming home, we ALWAYS get our food in Montreal Gare Centrale (Central Station); it's a zillion times better than any train food, and as you say, the train food often runs out. Of course, any fruit has to be eaten before the border, because you are not allowed to transport fruit (or fresh meat or dairy, I don't think) across; but sandwiches that you are eating are fine, no one has ever bothered me about them.
I should point out that the food the VIA Rail employee brought on the Maple Leaf after Niagara Falls, and the cart on the VIA Rail, was no more impressed to me than the food offered by Amtrak. I was surprised, since the food on VIA Rail dining cars is so good (although I got very sick on the VIA Rail out of Jasper the one time I was on; don't know what I ate but I wondered about refrigeration etc.)!
In general, I think the food on Amtrak's long-distance dining cars has been steadily getting back to decent since the big cuts of the Bush years. I am a somewhat demanding eater, as some of you here may have noticed, and I've found most of the dining car stuff rather tasty lately, though some items (esp the steak) does fluctuate based on preparation. I don't much like the plastic dishwear and especially not the styrofoam, but what's been in it has often been fine. My biggest complaints are the Continental breakfast--lack of fresh fruit except grapefruit (which I don't eat), a bad brand of yogurt (more like bad chemicals than yogurt), and pretty tiresome instant oatmeal; so I tend to have eggs or French toast instead--not so healthy! I also don't like that they don't offer toast at breakfast and no longer warm up the dinner rolls, and I would prefer a healthier brand of salad dressing.
The coffee and booze are excellent.
I really think the Adirondack ought to have a business class and also ought to offer Quebecois food!
But Chuck, you didn't mention how you liked the trip. Was it as gorgeous as the day we traveled recently? Did you get a Dome Car?
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Rather than cut and paste my Adirondack trip on this reply, I will take the liberty of refering you to the specific page on my website where I write about it. It is located here:
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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RR Bob, thanks for the reminder that the Contracting Out of commissary activities occurred during the Amtrak-era. Railroad commissaries were always staffed with Agreement railroad employees, and with no change occurring on A-Day. Subsequently, those positions were assumed by Amtrak, and the railroad employees who accepted Amtrak's offer of employment maintained their relative seniority dates established by their original railroad service.
As RRBob noted, Amtrak commissary operations are today Contracted Out system-wide. It appears that an airline caterer, Gate Gourmet, holds contracts in a number of locations throughout the System.
The point is simply that the Employees (represented today on the property by the Amtrak Service Workers Council of the Teamsters) already had made a major Contracting Out concession with the commissaries. Since labor negotiations are bi-lateral in scope, they are not open to public disclosure. Presumably, displaced employees were either offered jobs elsewhere within Amtrak or I would guess otherwise be eligible for Appendix C-2 job protection.
Again I reiterate that the Empire Service F&B Contracting Out initiative did not come from within Amtrak; it came from without - better known as from that White edifice with a building number of 1600; and from someone in there who knew little or nothing, and cared even less, about railroad labor relations.
I highly doubt if when 60 Mass approached Subway (they have some other corporate name, Doctor's Associates Inc, incidentally) I don't think that enhancement of the F&B product was topmost, in all likelihood it wasn't "anymost". The initiative was simply a response to the Administration "micromanaging", and Subway turned out to be the "fall guy'.
Suffice to say, and reiterating my other posts on this matter, it was simply too bad that "Amtrak dirty laundry" had to be publicly aired to the extent it was over this matter. Let the professionals do their job; as Amtrak is not managed by some kind of 'cabal of ineptness", and if I may say, wisely to date the Obama administration has allowed that to be the case.
Finally, allow me to briefly explore the point Mr. Reuben and others have alluded to, and that is why couldn't have the Unions simply "given in" on this one instance - keep WH happy, keep passengers having angry people waving picket signs in front of them, etc. From my time in railroad Labor Relations, all I can say is that precedents are paramount. It seemed like both sides if given an inch the others want to take a mile. So often I reviewed Arbitration Awards that were clearly identified as "without prejudice" or "without precedent" - and so often those Awards were used as just that!
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Kudos to Mr Norman for his level-headed approach and explanations regarding this topic. Just a couple corrections. The current caterer of record is Aramark (an airline style catering company similar to Gate Gourmet). The first 7 year management contract went to Gate Gourmet, however about 2 years ago when contract came up for renewal, lost out in bidding to Aramark.
The Amtrak employees that were replaced, approx. 10 years ago now, had the chance to sign on with GG but relatively few did. The Commissary jobs were grouped under the category of Passenger Services, so most exercised their seniority and transferred to jobs such as Baggageman, Usher, Red Cap, etc.
Part of the reason for the failure of the Subway experiment had to do with two things. First, there is a reason there was previously no food service on the Empire route. Amtrak had done away with it during a previous cutback scenario a few years earlier partially because of lack of sales. Remember the length of the ride is 2.5 hours maximum, with many taking a shorter intermediate trip. Thus the demand just is not there for a robust food service sales volume. Also supposedly, Subway did not have a liquor license and thus could not offer those high profit and in demand products to passengers.
All these items contributed to Subway realizing this may not be a venture all that ideal...
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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OK, it's my turn to divert this discussion from labor relations, which I recognize is less of a concern here to some than the quality of snack food served by Amtrak.
Interesting to learn from Mr. MDRR that Aramark holds the contract, apparently Systemwide, with Amtrak for commissary operations. Here is some history regarding the concern:
Reviewing the site, considering the array of industrial and institutional services they offer, I think it would be difficult to say that somewhere "along the way" everybody here has been a user of their services.
One sour note, while not mentioned at their website, their predecessor concern ARA Services developed the "forever loved' (from those of us here who experienced it first hand) SP Automat Car, which incidentially, were staffed with railroad employees. Considering that the SP offered some of the finest Dining service to be had on the rails (and in a day when there was competition for that title), you could see and feel the sadness amongst the Attendants - all of whom were part of the one-time superb Dining Car operation. Those cars were simply a disgrace; I'll take Amtrak Snack Bar fare any time over Automat.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I think it would be cheaper to call ahead and have a local restraunt preparer your meal and deliver it to the station. IHOP for Breakfast and perhaps Outback for Lunch or Dinner. The coach passangers can take a collection for the tip.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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Thanks for the link, Charles; but when I click it I don't get the train trip, just a main page (very nice and colorful). I could not find the train trips, but maybe I'm just a little too sleepy. . . .
BTW, I still haven't found out about any nearby delis, but one place where someone staying in a hotel, catching a morning train out of NY Penn Station, and pressed for time could go is the Tick Tock Diner, on the NW corner of W34th & 8th Ave, is right by Penn Station. It's a 24 hour diner and does takeout. You could have breakfast at the diner and get something to take out for lunch on the train. But I wouldn't get coffee to go; I'd have the Amtrak (Green Mountain) coffee, probably better than the coffee in the diner (though I don't remember).
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
In looking at the current Empire Service timetables, I just now noticed that the only Empire Service trains which have a snack car are the ones that go from NYP to Niagara Falls. The NYP-ALB trains do not have any type of snack service. Has this always been the case?
On our last big trip (2008), we took the Maple Leaf from Toronto to ALB -- of course they had a snack car. We then overnighted in Albany, and took one of the early morning E.S. trains to NYP the following day, and I seem to remember that the timetable at that time stated that they had a snack car, but they didn't, and we were hoping to get a light breakfast on the train.
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
I believe that's always been the case. I remember going from Albany to NYP back in 2007 when there was a snack car in the consist, but obviously not in use.
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
Originally all trains on the Empire Corridor had snack bar service. The attendant was pulled and snack service curtailed on those trains which operate New York - Albany only during one of the Bush II micromanaging cutbacks. Trains operating beyond Albany still have snack service.
I don't recall when exactly but it was in about the 2003-2005 time frame. It had happened maybe a year or two (perhaps three) before the Subway experiment was attempted.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
David P is correct. The café service was once available on all NYS trains but is now only available on those that come from or go beyond Albany--i.e., the two Niagara Falls trains, the Maple Leaf, the Adirondack, the Ethan Allen, and the Lakeshore Ltd (the last of which does not make all stops between NYP and ALB, though at one did it did). The local trains that run only between NYP and ALB no longer have it. It's hard to believe getting rid of it saved money, since the commuters traveling on those trains used to buy lots of coffee going down in the morning and LOTS of booze going back in the evening (including the Albany pols); I remember sitting in a crowded bar car (I'm afraid that is what we used to call it, not a café car hahaha) playing pitch (a popular card game in upstate NY) and drinking gin and tonics with the regulars, great fun.
The food and drink service on those trains was indeed abandoned during the budget cuts of the Bush years and initially got so many complaints, that is why I think Amtrak considered using Subway. In fact, I always thought the quickly abandoned Subway experiment was only for those shorter-haul trains with canceled food service (maybe included Keystone trains too? and some others? I'm not sure)--I didn't know they were considering Subway for longer-distance trains like the Adirondack.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
The Subway experiment was only designed for the NYP-ALB service, and as I recall, started with only 1-2 trains. Set up to follow the turns of the equipment.
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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Kidding you not; the "3rd cooks" job included "stoking the fire" for the Chef- and he wanted that grill perfect for those made-to-order omelets he was going to be awe-ing the hungry passengers with! <Sigh- I know, I know> ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I recall the "Subway" experiment; it did just last a day or two. One of the arguments rail unions made was the minimum-wage Subway employees did not have RR "safety training" ie., they did not know how to walk on a moving train with hot liquids, and so on. Those ppl were quickly "disappeared." There was some credence to that argument; I've also seen waiters on the Amer. Orient Express go down the aisle with a hot coffee pot in EACH hand, an absolute Amtrak safety "no-no" to this day-- gotta keep "one hand free" was the constant method Amtrak taught in its on-board training. There was a good reason for requiring that, as an SA would learn after the first emer. stop or huge train lurch.
