posted
Not at all surprised by this, incidentally:
Govenor Scott rejects HSR
Gov. Rick Scott just announced that he has rejected federal money that would be used to build a high-speed rail line from Tampa to Orlando, saying the project would be “far too costly to taxpayers” and that he believes “the risk far outweighs the benefits.”
"Moments ago I spoke with U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood to inform him of my decision. I appreciate the secretary’s efforts to work with us and I look forward to working with him in the future.
My decision to reject the project comes down to three main economic realities:
First – capital cost overruns from the project could put Florida taxpayers on the hook for an additional $3 billion. Second – ridership and revenue projections are historically overly-optimistic and would likely result in ongoing subsidies that state taxpayers would have to incur. (from $300 million – $575 million over 10 years) – Note: The state subsidizes Tri-Rail $34.6 million a year while passenger revenues covers only $10.4 million of the $64 million annual operating budget. Finally – if the project becomes too costly for taxpayers and is shut down, the state would have to return the $2.4 billion in federal funds to D.C. The truth is that this project would be far too costly to taxpayers and I believe the risk far outweighs the benefits.
Historical data shows capital cost overruns are pervasive in 9 out of 10 high speed rail projects and that 2/3 of those projects inflated ridership projections by an average of 65 percent of actual patronage.
It is projected that 3.07 million people will use the train annually. Keep in mind that Amtrak’s Acela train in Washington, D.C., Boston, Philadelphia, New York and Baltimore only had 3.2 million riders in 2010. And that market’s population is 8 times the size of the Tampa/Orlando market.
President Obama’s high-speed rail program is not the answer to Florida’s economic recovery.
We must make investments in areas where we will get a return for the shareholders – Florida’s taxpayers."
The project has been a hot topic of debate since work began along the I-4 corridor. A coalition of politicians and business lobby groups recently formed in an effort to press Scott to accept the funds. The head of the powerful Associated Industries of Florida called the rail line a part of “America’s infrastructure bonanza” at a roundtable discussion earlier this month.
Scott’s decision means the federal government will likely give the money earmarked for the project to another state.
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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As of this posting, three reader's comments are included; and the consensus is "attaboy; good riddance to the waste'.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Historical data shows capital cost overruns are pervasive in 9 out of 10 high speed rail projects and that 2/3 of those projects inflated ridership projections by an average of 65 percent of actual patronage.
I'd be interested to know where these "failures" are.
quote:It is projected that 3.07 million people will use the train annually. Keep in mind that Amtrak’s Acela train in Washington, D.C., Boston, Philadelphia, New York and Baltimore only had 3.2 million riders in 2010. And that market’s population is 8 times the size of the Tampa/Orlando market.
There are 9120 scheduled seats per day on Acela. With those figures 8273 seats are used for a portion of each seat's journey - over 90% which isn't bad ridership at all. No mention is made of the fact that Acela is a premium train. Hardly a fair comparison.
quote:President Obama’s high-speed rail program is not the answer to Florida’s economic recovery.
We must make investments in areas where we will get a return for the shareholders – Florida’s taxpayers."
I don't think any HSR in the world has been built with the specific aim of being a moneyspinner. If that is his aim then he is woefully misguided.
quote:The project has been a hot topic of debate since work began along the I-4 corridor.
So he wants to throw away millions of taxpayer's money already spent?
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
The socialists that are infesting our US Congress created this "high speed" initiative. That is reason enough to be suspicious of the back door costs. Governor Scott is protecting his Florida citizens against the usual federal costs involved in everything Pelosi's Congress passed (for the past 4 years).
I would like to see "high speed" rail in Texas, but I want Texas to fund it. The strings attached to any federal dollars are not worth the added money we might get. Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, and maybe a side trip to Brownsville will work in Texas when our economy recovers from the beating it has taken (thanks again to Pelosi's bunch).
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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posted
There seems to be a common thread in these states that are rejecting the HSIPR money: these are new services where there isn't any existing train service. I know the Star does a daily dipsy-doo through Orlando and Tampa, but I don't think that's providing any meaningful service for the people in that corridor. Meanwhile, where money has been granted to upgrade existing corridors, the cash is being gratefully accepted and shovels are starting to hit the dirt.
Governor Scott is likely correct that some subsidy would be needed to cover an operating deficit of the trains. But his argument seems to be another case where HSR opponents are ignoring the fact that highway users and aviation users are not paying the full cost of their rides either. So I wish Governor Scott good luck in finding solutions to Florida's transportation problems that will be cost effective, on-budget and helpful to Florida's economic recovery.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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posted
It will be interesting to see if Governor Scott will do an about face and support funding for passenger service on the FEC that has many local supporters.
Perhaps he will, as it does not have the apparent stigma of HSR attached to it. Rather its making a good railroad better to support 'fast enough' trains between Miami and Jax that will serve a real transportation purpose in that populous part of the sunbelt.
If that does happen, I hope it includes retrofitting the Prime Osbourn Convention center in Jax to a train station. After all, the FEC still runs right by that great old Jacksonville Union Terminal. It also helps that most of those cities (including Jax) have their own local rail transit systems, and most include integrated feeder buses at key points. I think that's a key to making any point to point corridor service succeed.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
The President tried to give a "shout out" to familys who had to tighten their belts and put the credit cards away. But the president just didn't have the heart to tell lil Joey [Biden] that the family just couldn't afford to buy him a new train set this year. Will Michelle and the Girls be vacationing on the Mediteranian again this summer?
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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I am normally very receptive to proposals to curb government spending...but it seems to me that "economizing" by cutting rail-related spending in a freeway and Interstate era is somewhat akin to paring expenses in a refinery by eliminating the purchase and maintenance of fire extinguishers....
-------------------- --------Eric H. Bowen
Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past! Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
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As an independent voter I am wondering if it is possible to keep nasty,mean comments about politicians off the forum for trains. I could make some cutting comments about various people but this is neither the time or place in my opinion for such. And frankly I am rather tired of hearing and reading the same old garbage about who thinks what about who. Maybe we need a forum where people could express themselves and shed the hatred freely.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
The plot thickens, and Amtrak gets a mention (no nasty, mean comments about politicians, and no politicians were harmed during the posting of this article):
P.S. Forgive me one little transgression, however. I'd like to come out with a bumper sticker along the lines of "I'M IN FAVOR OF HSR - HIGH SPEED RECALL"
-------------------- Ocala Mike Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
I'm with you, Train Lady. This forum does not need hateful and belligerent language. We can dress our reasoned opinions in polite and principled words.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
For every $2 the USG spends, it borrows $1 from the Chinese.
One of these days, our Chinese bankers are going to call the notes. When they do, they will dictate to us how we will restructure our debt.
We either get our fiscal house in order, so that we can afford infrastructure improvements, or we will find ourselves surrendering sovereignty to the Chinese.
That means: - Social Security has to be reformed (retirement age increased, tax rate increased, benefits cut). - Medicare has to be reformed (only the needy get it, those of us who can get health insurance do so). - Medicaid has to be reformed (basic medical services only) - DOD has to be reformed, and yes, that includes the military reserve retirement I will draw in 2016.
OBTW, it means restructuring our taxation system. We can no longer afford a progressive income tax. Everyone has to share the pain.
If you want HSR, you'd better be willing to pay for it.
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Interestingly, the Chinese are building High Speed Rail back home.
I'm not sure if I'm surprised or indignant about that.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
China? There's an interesting story being reported by the New York Times about the firing of the chief of the Chinese Railway Ministry. Corruption and cheap construction standards that may compromise safety are given as the main reasons for the firing.
A bipartisan group of the state's political and business leaders have pursued high-speed rail in Florida for decades, because it means more than $2.4 billion in economic aid, thousands of construction jobs and a modern transportation link between several of the state’s largest cities. That’s why I support it. I’m joined by state lawmakers and many members of Florida's congressional delegation, who also question the governor’s decision to kill high-speed rail. One is U.S. Rep. John Mica, the Winter Park Republican who chairs the House Transportation Committee. Also, federal transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, a Republican, has expressed disappointment. If Florida doesn’t take the money, another state will. So, some of us will look for ways to save the rail project. Meantime, please don’t hesitate to pass along your thoughts.
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
When learned that Florida rejected the HSR funds the Governor of RI said he'll gladly take those dollars...HELLO, taxpayers have gotten the message the country and many states are BROKE. When your credit card is maxed out it gets rejected at both Tiffanys and Wal Mart.
Posts: 516 | From: New Haven, CT USA | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
This seals it, and just confirms the suspicion of many. The Rs are opposing investment in rail just because the Obama Administration is supporting it.
-------------------- "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one corner of the Earth all one's life." Posts: 506 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Mar 2002
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quote:Originally posted by PullmanCo: One of these days, our Chinese bankers are going to call the notes.
Mr. Pullman, if there is any foundation to the column appearing in Today's Wall Street Journal, Chinese bankers may have a problem or two of their own to address:
All of these, and plenty of other tactics taken together, add up to a financial system that in some respects is running out of control. The more liabilities build up out of sight of regulators, the more serious the risk that a financial crisis could catch authorities by surprise. It's not a question of the competence of the authorities. Both the PBOC and CBRC are doing their best to manage the situation, and appear to have a pretty good idea of the contours of all this off-balance-sheet lending. But precise data are in short supply, a fact that would stymie even the best regulators
Lest we forget, they are no longer small people wearing Olive Drab uniforms with a Red star marching in lockstep chanting Maospeak. They are capitalists confronted with all the greed and avarice the system can place in front of irresponsible individuals - such as we clearly have had over here.
I'll soon be "on my pony' to get up to Borders (I want to help them any reasonable way I can) to buy this one:
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