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I was unaware that the Starlight, or any LD for that matter, had a designated Quiet Car.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Not to defend the miscreant in any way, but what's wrong with "disrespected"?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Henry, while it is in the dictionary, it still feels wrong to me. I can act in a disrespectful manner, I can show you disrespect, and I can act with disrepect. But saying that I disrespected you doesn't look proper to me (and I have no problem with saying I respected you). Just a small personal problem of mine, I guess . Kind of like saying I maliced you, rather than acted with malice toward you. And to keep it TrainWeb Forum worthy, that's my train of thought!
Posts: 406 | From: La Grange, CA | Registered: Sep 2007
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RR the term seems to have started in the inner city and is very prevelent and well understood among african americans. ( I hate that phrase. Why can't we all be just Americans?)
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Even a print 2001 dictionary I have recognized it as a verb.
To use disrespect as a transitive verb appears to be quite "mainstream" English nowadays, even if such was first used by rap lyricists .
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Language is ever-changing, but I do have my betes noires. One of them is the unnecessary use of French.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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That's the first I've ever heard of the Starlight having a Quiet Car. I think that might be an error....I'm pretty sure they don't have one on that train. (unless it's something new that was just added).
People like that are why I don't ride in coach any more. I can picture EXACTLy what it was like for those passengers who had to put up with her.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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I will be on the Starlight tomorrow and I will ask about the quiet car but I don't think that there is one.
Posts: 229 | From: Long Beach CA | Registered: Jan 2007
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I don't think there is a quiet car, but I noticed that on the Starlight and Cascades (and too few other trains), the announcements in coach included one to use cellphones respectfully, avoid using them in the dining car, and go downstairs if you wanted to use them in coach.
With regard to disresepcted--the slang term usually used is less often the full word but rather just to "dis." Turning nouns into verbs and vice versa has been going on since Shakespeare's day; in fact, the Bard himself is credited with doing it to introduce many new coinages. Nevertheless, I'm not sure I like the sound of it either. One of my bete noires (to use Henry Frenchy talk) is the use of impact as a verb. It's been going on very several decades, but it always grates on my nerves when I hear it.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: Language is ever-changing, but I do have my betes noires. One of them is the unnecessary use of French.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by cubzo: I will be on the Starlight tomorrow and I will ask about the quiet car but I don't think that there is one.
Since they didn't specifically identify the train in the article, I believe the media may have inserted reference to a quiet car for dramatic effect.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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We also have to remember that most members of the Media haven't stepped foot on a LD train. So they just assume that it has a quiet car, they don't bother to read the timetable at all.
Posts: 465 | From: elgin (s-line) | Registered: Dec 2008
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So to get kicked off a train with no 'quiet car', you have to be REALLY, REALLY not quiet.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I'm just off the Starlight (#11 that left PDX instead of SEA yesterday -- more on that later) and there were several announcements about no cell phone usage in the Diner or coaches. It was suggested that people who wanted to use their phones should go to the lower level of their coach or to the Sightseer Lounge. I didn't go beyond the Parlour Car so don't know what the compliance was like.
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by sbalax: there were several announcements about no cell phone usage in the Diner or coaches
Pet peeve of mine: here the announcements are still made in the quiet cars, so just after every station stop you get a long diatribe of announcements like "please do not use mobile phones and please keep noise to a minimum" - in the quiet car!
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Geoff- that is no different than on Amtrak. In fact, currently on the Acela, we have an automated announcement regarding info available on Twitter regarding major delays that plays every 15 minutes over PA system driving everyone crazy...
Posts: 332 | From: Long Island, NY USA | Registered: Jan 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Geoff Mayo: Pet peeve of mine: here the announcements are still made in the quiet cars, so just after every station stop you get a long diatribe of announcements like "please do not use mobile phones and please keep noise to a minimum" - in the quiet car! [/QB]
Worst of all is when the buffet car attendant reads virtually the entire menu.....
Thinking back, though, I remember writing in my trip report on the Sunset Limited of how, as we headed west from Jacksonville, I could hear the guy in the next compartment talking to his son in New Orleans, and wondering why he didn't use a telephone!
Posts: 395 | From: england | Registered: Sep 2002
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train lady's notion that the verb "to disrespect" "seems to have started in the inner city"--and Gilbert B Norman's notion that the verb "was first used by rap lyricists"--and sojourner's notion that the full form of the verb, and not just its shortening "to dis", qualifies as "slang"--are all wrong. The online Oxford English Dictionary's first example of a use of "to disrespect" is from 1614, followed by examples from 1633, 1683, 1706, 1852, and 1885; in addition, there are examples of the derived adjective "disrespected" from 1640, 1791, and 1876, and an example of the derived noun "(a) disrespecting (of something)" from 1631.
Furthermore, the notion of RR4me, Gilbert B Norman, and sojourner that "to disrespect" was first formed from the noun "disrespect" may well be wrong, seeing as the online OED's first known use of that noun is from 1631--seventeen years later than the first known use of the verb! The OED's entry for the noun even explicitly acknowledges that the noun may have been derived from the verb.
It's true that "to disrespect" may have been slightly uncommon in the past, and that it owes its surge in popularity in recent years largely to rap artists and African-Americans. There's even some possibility that the late-twentieth-century popularizing of the word was not based on any exposure to earlier uses of it, but represents a recoinage of it--just as some earlier uses, particularly from the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, may represent recoinages as well. But frankly, there's nothing wrong with any of that. It's simply an inherent characteristic of English--just as it's an inherent characteristic, to a greater or lesser degree, of most other human languages as well--that words and word categories have a certain fluidity; and there's no reason to object to new formations as long as they're logical. (As for illogical new formations, sometimes they get ridiculed out of existence within a short time, and sometimes they get past that barrier and become lodged in the language for decades or centuries.)
The moral of all this? Check the facts before you pontificate! Especially when the subject is a much-neglected, much-misunderstood field like linguistics.
Posts: 86 | Registered: Mar 2005
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Well look who, after a 26 month hiatus, decided to "honor" us with his presence.....
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Dear Mr M Paul Shore, I did not need to check my facts because my wording did not say what you say it says. Reread my post. Moreover, I did not post to pontificate; I posted cuz I thought it was interesting and would lead to more fun discussion. If my post sounded like pontificating, I do apologize--to everyone else on the board (but not to you)!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Mr. Shore, perhaps you should look up the definition of pontificate before you lecture us.If you don't understand what I mean just read your posting.There is a way of correcting misconceptions without being obnoxious. We don't deliberately provide wrong facts though perhaps we should to keep you busy.
Posts: 1577 | From: virginia | Registered: Jun 2005
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Just when things were getting a little too quiet, polite and civilized around here . . .
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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I saw the Youtube showing the police extraction of the ultra-chatty passenger; she left without much of a fuss. The only disrespect I see in this whole case is talking nonstop from Oakland to Salem on a cell phone in a public railroad passenger car-- that was disrespect to her fellow passengers.
I don't even like to talk for 30 seconds on my mobile phone, if others are in earshot-- but that's just me. Generally I like to TEXT, but only if I'm not driving, since that's unsafe and illegal, etc.
RR Bob out.
Posts: 588 | From: East San Diego County, CA | Registered: Oct 2004
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I'll bet the passengers wish she would have been booted off before Salem. For those who have ridden the Starlight, can you imagine someone talking on the phone from Sacramento all the way to Salem?? That's outrageous. In the middle of the night, people are trying to sleep. And yes, I'm stereotyping, but I'm sure she did not have a quiet, dainty little voice.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by smitty195: but I'm sure she did not have a quiet, dainty little voice.
IF she had, the whole incident would not have happened and her chattiness would be unknown to the rest of the world.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Oh, it's fun to be a Wikipedant. Here's what Wiktionary has to say, in part, about "irregardless":
"The approach taken by lexicographers when documenting a word's uses and limitations can be prescriptive or descriptive. The method used with irregardless is overwhelmingly prescriptive. Much of the criticism comes from the double negative pairing of the prefix (ir-) and suffix (-less), which stands in contrast to the negative polarity exhibited by most standard varieties of English. Critics also use the argument that irregardless is not, or should not be, a word at all because it lacks the antecedents of a "bona fide nonstandard word." A counterexample is provided in ain't, which has an "ancient genealogy," at which scholars have not leveled such criticisms.[1]"
Ain't that cool?
When I was a nightside copy editor at the old Chicago Daily News we used to get into red-faced shouting matches, some of which came close to fisticuffs, about "nonstandard" words. I miss those days.
One of the occasionally disputed terms was "the Amtrak," as in "I took the Amtrak to Chicago." The pro-usage guys said it was fine but the others dismissed it as dialectical.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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That is kool Henry, but I love it for its ability to send the English professors and their wannabes into apoplectic fits when they hear or read "irregardless".
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Then there is the phrase "I could care less" meaning "I couldn't care less". But that begs the question.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Perhaps "I could care less" is elliptical for "I could care less but I don't"?
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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In Texas and parts of the South I have often heard people say "I flew the Delta" or "I flew the Continental". For whatever reason, that doesn't bother me but "graduated High School" and "stand on line" do.
Frank in sunny and warm SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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"Stand on line" is simply a regional expression, Frank--I believe it usually indicates someone is from NYC. It doesn't bother me any more than hearing someone from Britain say "queue up" or "stand in the queue."
One regional expression that does sometimes irritate me, though, is the (southern, I think?) use of "I sure don't" in answer to a question or request. I get irritated because when I hear the "sure," I assume the person is going to say "I sure do," but then they don't, so it's disappointing!
As for "graduated high school," I believe "graduated from high school" also used to be considered incorrect, since it is technically the school that does the graduating. In other words, you were supposed to say "I was graduated from high school." But the usage of the word has changed over time, and apparently keeps changing. I don't know if "graduated" without the "from" is regional or not, but I certainly hear it often.
Regarding use vs nonuse of articles, as in "the Amtrak," I recall finding it odd in Britain that people say "in hospital" instead of "in the hospital" and "in university" instead of "in the university" (e.g., I am a student in university") Odd that I found it odd, when I do say "in college"!
Another Anglicism I found most odd was hearing mathematics shortened to maths instead of math!
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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"Taking the Concorde" rather than "taking Concorde" was a big annoyance for the bigwigs at BA for some reason - an insult perhaps?!
Queuing is actually more correct (first-in, first-served) than a line which infers no ordering. It's one of the few things in computer programming where we don't have an Americanism (color/colour, initialization/initialisation etc) but have an English Queue.
Can't say I've ever thought that "in University" is a problem! Though "at University" is probably more common. Along the same lines as "in jail" or "in school" - or, as you say, "in college"! I think saying "in *the* hospital" you're implying a specific named hospital rather than conveying a general indication of a type of place.
Something some Americans do which I find hard to read is saying "Fred and Jack and Jill and Bob went to the moon" instead of "Fred, Jack, Jill, and Bob went to the moon". Use of the final comma is another debate in itself.
Language is a funny thing. But apostrophe abu'se is unforgivable!
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Now to get peeves about acronyms off our chests . . . but not in an acrymonious way.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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On of my favorites was either on this site or another forum. On the topic of current 110 mph corridor upgrades not truly being HSR, someone suggested PDQR for pretty darn quick rail. (Now we are even back to train-related.)
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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. Kind of like saying I maliced you, rather than acted with malice toward you. And to keep it TrainWeb Forum worthy, that's my train of thought!
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