posted
The other day I heard, on the radio, that many people aren't going on vacation, this summer, due to the cost of gasoline and due to the general economic malaise. I, also, am not going anywere for that reason but, mainly, because I want to save up some $$$$$ for a major train excursion in the summer of 2012.
I would like to take the VIA "Canadian" along the Toronto-Vancouver route. The last time I took the Canadian was when it ran along the southern, CP route through Banff and Calgary, to give you a clue as to how long ago that was. This time, my plan would be to catch the VIA train in Edmonton or east of Edmonton headed west.
My plan was to fly from Santa Rosa, Calif. to Portland, Oregon. Then take the Empire Builder from Portland to Glacier Park, or beyond. From there, figure out some way to get up to Canada to board the VIA. Then, overnight on the VIA to Vancouver. From Vancouver, I would take the Cascade train back to Portland to complete the loop.
However, many obstacles! I called a car rental agency in East Glacier. They told me you can no longer pick up a car, in the states, and drop if off in a Canadian town or city. Apparently, such a rule resulted from the 9/11 attack. I also called a different car rental place in Whitefish, MT, and they said the same thing.
I then thought of staying on the Builder and getting off in Minneapolis. From there, fly to Winnipeg to board the VIA. However, flights from Minneapolis to Winnipeg have to go through either Chicago or Denver and it would be at least a 4 hr flight. I don't like long plane trips. There is a direct flight, from Minneapolis to Winnipeg but the cost is exorbitant, to say the least.
My next idea was to take a bus up to Canada. I e-mailed the Chamber of Commerce in Fargo, ND, to see if there is a bus from Fargo to Winnipeg. They didn't reply. I then e-mailed the Chamber of Commerce in Shelby, MT to see if there is a bus from Shelby to Lethbridge, AB where I could catch a plane to Edmonton. No such bus.
I thought of flying to Edmonton from either Kalispell, MT (near Whitefish) or from Great Falls, MT. The problem, there, is that the flights first go back to Seattle and then from Seattle to Edmonton. It would be about a 5 hour trip..way too long.
I finally decided to call East Glacier Park Lodge to see if they would have some suggestions. They told me about a shuttle van service, out of the Calgary, AB airport, that would pick up folks at the Glacier Park Lodge and take them to the Calgary airport! However, the price was exorbitant and would only make sense if I was with of party of at least 10 people, to my thinking.
Can anyone think of something I haven't, as yet, thought of?
I might just wind up flying to Portland and taking the Cascade train up to Vancouver. Then get on the VIA to Jasper. Stay a couple of days in Jasper then return the same way. It isn't what I really wanted to do, but at least it would give me a chance to ride the VIA.
Any help or suggestions will be appreciated.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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You could call Edmonton's Greyhound bus station and ask them where the nearest US stop is from their station (especially if your cell plan has free Canadian minutes).
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Well, this is a pretty far out idea but I'll mention it anyway. I wonder if you could do a one-way rental by getting a U-Haul or Penske pickup truck? When renting a truck for moving, one-way rentals are done every day---including from the US to Canada. I wonder if you could rent a Ford F150 pickup and handle it that way? Like I said, it's sort of a far out idea but I'm just thinking outside the box....
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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The change in international drop offs for rentals must have happened in the past year or two. We have, several times, rented a car in Vancouver and dropped it at the Seattle airport. On two occasions we picked the car up right in the Cruise Terminal at Canada Place.
Frank in sunny SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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I was thinking the same thing as Frank. Summer car rental between the USA and Canada is fairly common. Are you certain that you checked with all of the rental companies? Do you have some type of restriction, such as under 25 or a suspended license and that's why you're getting an odd answer?
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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I checked Avis and they are offering one-way rentals YVR-SEA and SEA-YVR. Perhaps it's a function of the smaller towns in Montana rather than any 9/11 related regulation.
Frank in sunny and windy SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
I did the same thing earlier and checked both Hertz and Avis. With Hertz, I put from the Amtrak West Glacier Station to the city of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. For Avis, I put from SFO to YXE (Saskatoon Airport).
Hertz came back with a firm "contact your Hertz agent" message to book the vehicle. Avis came back with, "this reservation may not be bookable with a one-way dropoff...contact Avis".
posted
If your main goal is to ride Canadian trains, how about taking the Rocky Mountaineer one way Vancouver to Jasper (they go there as well as Calgary) and return on the Canadian. Not cheap but would be a great circle trip.
Of course you can fly or use Amtrak from home to Vancouver.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Try getting to Vancouver then taking the Rocky Mountainerr to Jaspar. That was you get to see the whole run in Daylight which is the best way to do it. Stay in Jaspar at the Astoria Hotel 403-852-3351 almost across the street from the Via Station. I would say that would make a great trip.
Chris
Posts: 711 | From: Santa Ana | Registered: May 2003
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I was researching airfares and schedules in and out of Montana to meet the Empire Builder a couple of months ago and that was a pretty daunting task.
Winnipeg is not a bad airport to use. Small, not far from town.
Would you consider Amtrak's California Zephyr to Denver and a direct flight to Winnipeg from there the following day? Great scenery that would be worth the trip unless you specifically wanted the Empire Builder.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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In the past 3 years we have rented between Seattle and Vancouver as well as Toronto to Buffalo (both wys). It surely is a small town thing. Could you extend the trip and take Amtrak to Detroit, taxi to Windsor then VIA to Toronto and take the Canadian the entire way? If so, go westbound...best for scenery.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
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I thought I remember seeing something in the new "Amtrak Vacations" guide on how to potentially make a circle tour from say Seattle/Portland (Pacific Northwest) to Glacier National Park and on up to Jasper, AB and back via Vancouver. Not saying it is necessary to book the trip through Amrak Vacations, but it may give you an "idea" on "how to do it." Course it may be cheaper in the long run to book through Amtrak Vacations. The "vacation" may only be offered seasonally though. But I think I recall you saying that you are going in the summer time, which would be peak season and doable.
I am pretty sure the bus that connected passengers at Grand Forks and even Fargo, ND to Winnipeg has been discontinued. I've been on the Canadian and seen people fly from the West Coast to say Edmonton (or Calgary) in order to catch VIA's east or westbound Canadian.
Personally, I would recommend taking the Canadian westbound in the summer months with its current schedule (if running on time!)
The Rocky Mountaineer is good, but I would only take the trips it offers from Calgary to Vancouver via Kamloops or Jasper to Whistler via Quesnel/Prince George. The Jasper to Vancouver route is a nice journey to take on the Canadian and experinece overnight train travel (plus the 1950s vintage equipment!).
posted
I am not sure where you are leaving from but as you live near in northern California I'd suggest any of these:
(a) Fly to Toronto (a great city!), overnight or more there (Strathcona Hotel?) and take VIA Rail's Canadian all the way back to Vancouver BC (another great city!), then go back to the States either with the Amtrak Cascades to Seattle, overnight there, and Coast Starlight home (via Martinez) OR overnight or more in Vancouver BC, catch earlier Cascades to Portland OR and overnight there before catching the Coast Starlight home OR overnight or more in Vancouver BC, take Pacific Coach Lines (which goes on ferry) to Victoria BC (very very nice), 2 nights there, then Victoria Clipper to Seattle, overnight there, then Coast Starlight home.
(b) Fly to Calgary, overnight there, then take a one-way Brewster bus tour to Jasper (very nice little Canadian Rocky town)--the Brewster bus is not too expensive, goes up ice parkways & stops on the glacier etc.), at least overnight in Jasper(Whistler Inn?) and catch the VIA Rail's Canadian west to Vancouver BC. From there, come home in one of the three ways described in (a).
(c) Fly to Edmonton, take VIA Rail's Canadian west to Vancouver BC. From there, come home in one of the three ways described in (a).
(d) Take Coast Starlight north to Seattle, overnight there, take Victoria Clipper to Victoria BC, 2 nights there, take Pacific Coach Lines (which goes on ferry) to Vancouver BC, overnight or more there, take Rocky Mountaineer trip (expensive, even Red Leaf, but gorgeous scenery, includes overnight in Kamloops) to Calgary or Banff, 2 nights there, then take Brewster bus excursion from Calgary or Banff to Jasper, overnight or more there, then VIA Canadian to Victoria BC, then later Cascades to Seattle, overnight there, then Coast Starlight home.
(e) There no longer appears to be a direct bus to Winnepeg from Fargo, which is dreadful--I though there was one just last year! But I'd nose around a bit more about car rental in Montana and leaving car in Calgary--I think a lot of people go to the Canadian Rockies from Montana. Perhaps you need to take Amtrak to Whitefish and then catch a Rimrock Trailways bus or two to someplace larger in Montana? Whitefish seems a nice place to stop, and the Best Western there has a hotel shuttle that will pick you up at the train and drop you downtown, if you want to overnight--why not check with them about car rentals too. Kalispell is also nearby, and Missoula not too far--Rimrock goes straight to those I think.
BTW, per your original post, I cancelled a June trip not primariy because of $$$, as I had a cheap one planned, but because of the bad weather and flooding all over the place. I did not want to get caught in the midwestern floods as I did a few years back.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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I just played with Greyhound's website and they do have service from Fargo to Winnipeg, in only 61 hours 35 minutes. There is just the minor inconvenience of transfers in Minneapolis, Chicago, Detroit, and Toronto. But for $46 you really get to see the world.
posted
I did some more research, and it seems that although there are no scheduled intercity buses, it is possible to take airport-type shuttles from Glacier Park hotels and other nearby Montana cities, such as Kalispell, into Canada. Check out the web site below. http://airportshuttleexpress.com/waterton.htm#moose
Perhaps you could go from Amtrak EB/Glacier Park to Waterton Park Hotel in Canada ($50), then take a taxi to the Greyhound Canada stop in Pincher Creek ($40ish), then take Greyhound Canada from there to Calgary ($15). From Calgary, you could probably take another Greyhound Canada bus to Edmonton and catch the VIA Rail there, or take that Brewster bus tour I mentioned up the ice parkway to Jasper.
Or perhaps you could go from Amtrak EB/Glacier Park to Waterton Park Hotel in Canada ($50) and rent a car there to take you to the stop of your choice (perhaps Edmonton).
BTW, I didn't mention it in my other suggestions, but if you simply fly to Calgary you could no doubt take Greyhound Canada to Edmonton. I'm told Greyhound in Canada is not bad--in fact, Greyhound owns Brewster bus too now, but I can attest that that is a very nice bus tour and nothing like your grandma's Greyhound. I have never been on regular Greyhound in Canada, however.
As for getting from Grand Forks ND to Winnepeg (about 150 miles) to catch VIA there, now that Jefferson Lines no longer makes the trip, it seems problematic. There may be an airport shuttle you can take from Grand Forks to Winnepeg Airport, but it likely would be prohibitively expensive. You can check here:
There is also a charter bus company out of Winnepeg called Beaver Bus that runs trips down to Grand Forks for shopping and whatnot. Perhaps you could arrange to board a return trip on one of their buses if the dates are right.
*Note that if you phone Canada (Winnipeg area code is 204), be careful about using a cellphone as calling Canada is very expensive on most of them; use a phone card instead (unless it is a tollfree number)
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
What sojourner mentions is what I vaguely recall seeing in the Amtrak Vacations booklet (the new one for 2011-2012).
As mentioned in my previous post they do outline a specific circle tour from Portland/Seattle to Glacier then up to Jasper and Vancouver to return.
There is some sort of "shuttle bus" one can get within Glacier National Park to reach the Canadian side of Glacier National Park and the beautiful hotel over there - Waterton Park Hotel. From there you are in Canada and perhaps can get a shuttle/cab/bus/car rental to Banff or elsewhere.
Posts: 337 | Registered: Jun 2003
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Mike: Checking with Greyhound in Edmonton sounds like a good idea. I know there is a Greyhound station in Pincher Creek, near Waterton Park, but no bus station in Waterton.
TwinStarRocket: I think 61 plus hours on a bus is a little beyond what I could endure.
Smitty, Frank, Silverstar092: It is interesting that you, apparently, can cross the border, one-way, with a rental car going from Seattle to Vancouver, or reverse. Maybe it is, as you say, that the smaller border crossing stations do not allow one-way rental car crossings.
Palmland, JP 1822: I took the Rocky Mountaineer, 2-3 years ago, from Vancouver to Jasper, to Quesnel, to Whistler, then back to Vancouver. That was quite a trip! Next time, however, I want to try the VIA.
Chris: I tried to look up the Astoria Hotel, in Jasper, in my AAA Tour Book, but couldn't find a listing. Is it new? The last time I was in Jasper, I thought that the Athabasca Hotel, downtown, might be a good place to stay. I don't know what the rooms are like, but their restaurant is very good..we ate there several times.
David: I tried Expedia searches for flights from Kalispell, Missoula, Great Falls, Coeur d' Alene, and Spokane, hoping for direct flights to Calgary or Edmonton. Every flight seems to first go to either Seattle or Denver. So, no luck.
Sojourner: I don't know if this is the shuttle service you were referring to, but I found something for shuttles in Glacier Park:
If you scroll down about 1/3 of the way, check out the boxes in orange. They will pick you up a East Glacier Lodge and take you up to Waterton Park, with a customs stop along the way. I'm not sure if it is a daily service, but you can call them at: (406) 892-2525. The drop off is at the Prince of Wales Hotel in Waterton Park. If you are staying at one of the lodges in Waterton (other than the Price of Wales) it is about a 15-20 minute walk from the Prince of Wales Hotel down to the village.
There is an airport shuttle service out of Lethbridge, Alberta, that will pick you up at the Bayshore Inn, in Waterton Park village. I'm not sure if it is daily or less than daily. It is 2.5 hrs to 3.5 hrs to the Lethbridge airport, where you can fly to Calgary and Edmonton.. The Lethbridge shuttle is at (403)-627-9451.
Note: there are no taxicabs or car rental services in Waterton Park. The East Glacier shuttle to Waterton and the Lethbridge shuttle service, from Waterton to Lethbridge, both cost around $50 each.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
You mentioned flights to Calgary from Denver. Since you are in CZ territory, how about taking that train to Denver, rather than the EB. Fly to Calgary and Via back to Vancouver? That would seem to be a trip with the most serious mountain scenery you could pack into a few days - at least in North America.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I was hoping to minimize my flight time, Palmland. I really don't like to fly. Even the flight to Portland (about 1 hr 45 min) is not to my liking. Too hard to board the Starlight, however.
If we ever regain the ability to connect with Canadian trains, out of Port Huron, I might consider the Zephyr, the connection, then the VIA out of Toronto. I don't know if we will ever regain the link..I'll put the idea on the back burner.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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I'm not afraid to fly -- I'm a certified private pilot and owned an aircraft for 15 years -- but HATE HATE HATE to fly commercial. Security theater and surly airline personnel, you know. Is there a therapeutic web site for such as me?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
There are some possibilities for a circle tour that include using BC Ferries. There is a ship that runs in the summers between Prince Rupert and Port Hardy at the northern end of Vancouver Island. You would have to take a Greyhound Canada bus from Vancouver to Port Hardy. Then take the ferry from Port Hardy to Prince Rupert and VIA trains to Jasper and back to Vancouver. It's kind of a long journey, however, I think you would have to overnight in Vancouver, Port Hardy, Prince Rupert, Prince George and Jasper before you got back to Vancouver.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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I too of course am not afraid to fly - even if there is reasonable possibility I will not be on a flight this year.
My trip to the Northeast, which has customarily been by air transport, later this week (New York, South Kent, Greenwich) will be by auto this year as it includes my fiftieth reunion at School, an Eastward stop in Bloomsburg PA, and a Westward in Pittsburgh with both for planned meet-ups (I had an overnight Eastward in Toledo scheduled but have now decided to "go for it" - just an unnecessary night away from home and hearth - I'm just not the compulsive traveler so many here appear to be).
My flying trip to Fredericksburg VA will likely be a no-go account my friends' out there health issues. However, should my Sister invite me to Nantucket this year and I choose to accept, then there will be a flight as there simply is no reasonable and practical alternative to get there.
But I have had two Amtrak trips this year; one was Auto Train during February and the other was to hear the Detroit Symphony during April. Both were affirmation to my "more positives than negatives' overall view of Amtrak travel.
Oh, and my apparent attachment to auto trips? William Ernest Henley's Invictus sums up that quite well:
It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Like many others, I suspect, I'm not afraid to fly. It's just become such a miserable experience in the last few years that I fly as a last resort.
-------------------- My new "default" station (EKH) has no baggage service or QuikTrak machine, but the parking is free! And the NY Central RR Museum is just across the tracks (but not open at Amtrak train times. . ..) Posts: 337 | From: Goshen, IN | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Judy McFarland: Like many others, I suspect, I'm not afraid to fly. It's just become such a miserable experience in the last few years that I fly as a last resort.
So true. We've got 6 flight segments in the next two weeks. Where are the Carolina Specials, Grand Canyons, and Colorado Eagles when you need them. Thanks goodness for good escape books (Dudley Pope's, seafaring series).
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Judy McFarland: Like many others, I suspect, I'm not afraid to fly. It's just become such a miserable experience in the last few years that I fly as a last resort.
So true. We've got 6 flight segments in the next two weeks. Where are the Carolina Specials, Grand Canyons, and Colorado Eagles when you need them. Thanks goodness for good escape books (Dudley Pope's, seafaring series).
The airlines worked hard to make flying a good experience until the time that there were no reasonable alternatives for many travelers. Need I say more?
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Why don't we say, Mr. Harris, that with Dereg, the airlines learned that the public wants low fares rather than being "King for a Day". If this is what the traveling public wanted, and were willing to pay for it (and, if I may be permitted to say, dress appropriately for it), then this is what would continue to be.
But why not go and break out a 1979 vintage airline timetable - the final year of regulated airfares - note a fare or two (they were printed back then), then let one of those deflator programs do a number on them. See if you or a third-party sponsor would be willing to pay the price shown; somehow I think the answer is no way.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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As I noted immediately, the flying public wants LOW FARES; of course there is a "fringe" that will travel to The Meadows on their Citations, then be "whisked to Wynn's" (never mind who else will already be in the "stretch"), or wherever, and put $1M in play.
But for those of us who stay at The Flamingo, eat most meals at the buffet, and put $100 (no suffix letters) in play, LOW FARES is what it is all about.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Why don't we say, Mr. Harris, that with Dereg, the airlines learned that the public wants low fares rather than being "King for a Day".
True as far as it goes. I would also enjoy knowing what I will be paying. Just attempting to set up a flight SFO to MEM in about two weeks time: Fares varied, for each way as part of a round trip, from around $240 to over $1000. Also remember when all catching a traim meant was having a ticket in hand. No need for a name on it or any of that other stuff.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Mr. Harris, you are simply addressing demand pricing which we both know is used throught the transportation and hospitality industries. Here, I must admit I was wondering why the rate at this hotel was high, but I was meeting some people here last evening, so this is where I was staying. I find out that there is a NASCAR event, the Pocono 500, is this weekend, and I learned that hotel rooms in this part of PA are "scarce" - as a result this hotel was full last night.
I cant blame any transportation and lodging company for "maximixing yield"; I'm sure if I were staying here in Feb, the $135 rate would have been, say, $80.
Also, I understand that demand pricing will soon be "at a restaurant near you". The printed menu will be replaced wth a tablet (Nook, Kindle, whatever) and the prices will vary depending on time of day/week, etc.
Finally, related of sorts, I am pleased to learn that Delta Air Lines "got their face slapped" over this matter of assessing baggage fees to returning service members. That was a "bad bad" when Air Mobility Command allows deploying members to carry four bags. Hopefully, those excess fees will be waived, and after the matter "went viral", I think Delta has no alternative.
(forgive my spelling, but this hotel lobby computer does not seem to have a spell check)
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I do remember fondly the day when you could travel by train anonymously, or even make up any name you felt suited your trip.
As for Mr. Norman's credo regarding auto trips: "I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul."
My sentiments exactly. That is why I have never been drawn to cruises. My train travel always includes a rental car for considerable mileage at the scenic end, and no planned route (and also a considerable bit of "that looks like an interesting road"). I have happily got good and lost a few times, and using a GPS would have ruined all the fun. Sleeping in the car and cheap motels have faded with my youth. I now prefer at least a Best Western, if it looks nice as I pass by.
As Yogi Berra wisely said "if you come to a fork in the road, take it".
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Also, I understand that demand pricing will soon be "at a restaurant near you". The printed menu will be replaced wth a tablet (Nook, Kindle, whatever) and the prices will vary depending on time of day/week, etc.
You don't have that already? Most restaurants around here offer Monday night specials, or early bird discounts, or various other enticements during the week to get you to eat "off peak".
Now, if it was a price for the last steak in the building tonight, akin to the last seat in the current fare bucket on an airline, then that would be a different matter.
Talking of Holiday Inn Express, I phoned one up on the spur of the moment a couple of days ago to book a room for two adults and a child for that evening. We arrived 20 minutes later to a room already prepared with the pull-out child bed already made and ready to sleep in. Compare to the Holiday Inn (not Express) where it took three attempts to get a cot despite booking weeks in advance, checking at reception, and then waiting for a non-existent cot which eventually arrived sans sheets and self-assembly. Yes, both were one-off experiences in those cases but I've had other non-child experiences, but (in contrast to airlines) most budget hotel chains are seemingly making a big effort to give service at low price compared to the mid-market offerings.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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