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Looks like you'll be among the first to experience the new and improved Sunset Limited schedule.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Vincent206: Looks like you'll be among the first to experience the new and improved Sunset Limited schedule.
I had no idea about the new schedule. I hope I'm not among the first to miss the wonders of the old schedule!! ??
There was little "wonderful" about the old schedule, unless you count serving the two largest intermediate cities along the route at odd hours of the night or before dawn as a "wonder"...or perhaps being unable to connect from the southbound Coast Starlight without an overnight layover in L.A.
I'm taking the Sunset Limited (N.O.-Houston) on the way back from Washington D.C. in late May. I'm (mostly) looking forward to the new schedule..."mostly", though, because I may not be able to have dinner on board before arrival Houston.
-------------------- --------Eric H. Bowen
Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past! Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Dr. Hale, to be succinct, the rescheduling regarding both timing and days of operation of the Sunset Limited to take effect May 7 represents a milestone in "the political saga" that has occurred regarding this train since Katrina.
Prior to Katrina, the Sunset #2 operated LA-Orlando departing LA 3PM Sun Wed Fri, stopping NO 3PM second afternoon on Tu Fr Su, then arriving Orlando 9PM third evening - We Sat Mo. Returning, #1 left Orlando 1PM Su Tu Th, stopped at NO 11AM on Mo We Fr, finally arriving (if on time and Sunset's performance in that area can only be characterized as "sorry")LA 7AM We Fr Su.
However, in Katrina's 2005 aftermath, much of the CSX line between NO and Orl had to be embargoed. CSX restored the line to service in record time (beating restoration of paralleling US 90) and resumed freight service to the ravaged area handling badly needed building materials to restore the area and to quickly handle commerce through the Port of Mobile.
But no Sunset Limited (referred to here at the Forum as Sunset East).
By way of background, the Sunset Limited has proven to be the poorest performing route that Amtrak operates. Even if the region through which it travels is the fastest growing in the US, it can only operate tri-weekly as the railroad over which it operates (UP; and a disclaimer: author holds long position in UNP) will not allow more frequency as the track is needed to handle freight operations. It only "skirts" the metropolitan area of the most populous enroute city - Phoenix - and serves several others at inconvenient hours.
In short, it is "Amtrak's Biggest Loser" and no doubt they have wanted to be rid of it - especially Sunset East that was "loser loser" and had no political patron saint.
To discontinue service over a route in its entirety, Amtrak is required to give six month notice of the intent and hold public hearings. In your career, you surely know how messy and unproductive those tend to be. Therefore, and this is simply my take, Amtrak saw an opportunity to be rid of Sunset East - and without the public hearings and the possibility they would be denied authority to discontinue it. Therefore, the service became "temporarilly suspended" and has remained so to this day.
But part of this "temporary suspension" has been the "operation" of the "phantom" Sunset East. What this means that with regards to the days of operation, Amtrak has to "pretend' (kind of like The Wabash Cannon Ball) the train still runs to Orlando. This results in an inefficient use of the equipment when a set is required to sit in New Orleans for 48 hours doing less than nothing. It even goes so far as requiring periodic Rules Qualifications of Amtrak operating crews on CSX Rules in force along the Gulf Coast and, as an aside, in Amtrak's records where trains are identified by number and date of departure from the originating station, i.e. #29(21) will be your Capitol Limited as it is Train 29 leaving its originating station, Wash, on April 21, in the case of the WB #1, that date of origin is shown as the date it would have left Orlando.
Now I guess Amtrak has figured anyone outside of some grass root advocacy groups has accepted, if they even care, that "it's gone", so effective shortly before your trip, Amtrak has adjusted the days of operation so that one set of equipment can be released for badly needed use elsewhere. They have also adjusted the schedule so that it will serve more intermediate points at convenient hours.
We shall see if the changes will help Sunset West's ridership.
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: [QB] Dr. Hale, to be succinct,
GBN, Ira has already written a poem establishing my forum name as "Granny" or "TrainGranny". . . If you insist on continuing to address me as 'Doctor Hale', I may retaliate with poetry of some sort.. and maybe with help from Ira! Beware!
posted
Enjoyed the notion of a virtual train trip reading your itinerary......
It's not the 'Nancy Hanks' of old but it will get the job done..... and will be a lot of fun too.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I tend to be formal in this life; and I have always held that at these Forums the same rules of decorum that are held to in a legislative body or a court of law should be adhered to.
That's just me.
Fear not, come Monday evening, it will be Marty and Jeannie.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Unlike Mr. Norman, I have always thought having an exotic forum name is as close as I will ever come to having a superhero persona (who, disguised as mild-mannered mundane retired civil servant, Jerry Peterson, fights a never ending battle for truth, justice and the American Way).
But I enjoy the variety of writing on this forum, especially Mr. Norman's formality. I always expect his voice would sound like Perry Mason or an American Peter O'Toole. And Mr. Kisor still gets me to look up words to expand my vocabulary.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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I will report on the vocal persona of Mr. Norman after I meet him next Monday night! My sister and I are having dinner with him in Chicago! I hope he's not too formal as I will be wearing jeans and a t-shirt!
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Traingranny - you have an ambitious schedule and one I'm sure you will thoroughly enjoy. I'm not sure if the May trip is tentative or cast in concrete. So, may I offer a couple suggestions? Allow a day or two in California to recover from your cross country trek. It will make you appreciate the return even more. Perhaps breaking the trip in Santa Barbara would be an option. Then catch the Starlight up to EMY and back.
Also, on the Palmetto, I highly recommend getting Business Class - it's a long trip and often crowded. Well worth the extra to have room to stretch out.
You will enjoy your meeting with our esteemed Mr. Norman. The Capitol Ltd. should be a good trip - be sure and check out Harpers Ferry (left side) from the lounge car. Quite a unique spot with lots of history and then you will get glimpses of the Potomac river as you head west (on the right side).
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Notelvis, TrainLady, Miss Vickie, (HopefulRailUser) Mr. Black, Mr. Pullman Co, RRRich, SilverStar92, Mr. Palmland, RResor, et al, all know me face to face.
Fear not; I'm a "regular guy".
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Allow a day or two in California to recover from your cross country trek. It will make you appreciate the return even more. Perhaps breaking the trip in Santa Barbara would be an option. Then catch the Starlight up to EMY and back.
Also, on the Palmetto, I highly recommend getting Business Class - it's a long trip and often crowded. Well worth the extra to have room to stretch out.
Thank you! Both suggestions are good ones! An Amtrak trip is never set in stone, or at least that's my experience! I will definitely get a first class seat on the Palmetto, and possibly decide to take a break in California... Although, it's hard to imagine wanting to take a break from my train rides! (Since, I've ever done a cross country trip, this is pure speculation on my part!) Your suggestions are appreciated!
You forum members, keep the suggestions coming! I'm going to have the perfect trip when you guys get through fine-tuning it!
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I can vouch for GBN - He was kind enough to drive me from the western suburbs to Midway Airport in return for lunch..... purchased with my AGR Mastercard!
Marty - allow me to make a hotel recommendation in Los Angeles should you need one laying over between the Coast Starlight and Southwest Chief.
I've stayed three nights on two separate trips at the Metro Plaza Hotel. It's a 'middle-aged property' but clean, reasonably priced, and only a block and a half from Union Station.
I most recently stayed there in July 2011 and found it to be on about the same level.....perhaps a little higher..... than a Quality Inn.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
What I like most about your plan for the western trains, is that in general you move up from the least scenic to the most scenic.
I have never been on the Starlight or in Texas, but I would rate scenery on the east-west trains as follows: 1. The Rockies west of Denver. 2. Glacier and northwest Montana in daylight. 3. The Columbia River Gorge as the sun sets. 4. Most of the Chief route Trinidad-Flagstaff. 5. Reno to Sacramento.
Least exciting: The Sunset through AZ/NM and the eastern 2/3 of Montana, though the vastness of these lands in itself is interesting (I once met a fellow from Austria who toured the USA and thought the flatness of North Dakota was his favorite sight).
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: I can vouch for GBN - He was kind enough to drive me from the western suburbs to Midway Airport in return for lunch..... purchased with my AGR Mastercard!
Marty - allow me to make a hotel recommendation in Los Angeles should you need one laying over between the Coast Starlight and Southwest Chief.
I've stayed three nights on two separate trips at the Metro Plaza Hotel. It's a 'middle-aged property' but clean, reasonably priced, and only a block and a half from Union Station.
I most recently stayed there in July 2011 and found it to be on about the same level.....perhaps a little higher..... than a Quality Inn.
Thanks, David. I will need a hotel there... a reasonably priced one makes it even better!!
I also will vouch for GBN, having dined with him, albeit over lunch. You will find him a congenial dinner companion and an intriguing raconteur. And he has a twinkle in his eye! (GBN, sorry if I've dispelled any mystery to your persona.)
Tom
PS. Marty, even after all these years he still addresses me here as Mr. Black!
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I like your itineraries as they cover most of the major Amtrak lines. Having riden every current Amtrak line, I know there is much to see. Though the Sunset Limited line across Texas is less than thrilling, you will enjoy the views of Louisiana bayous, the mexican border, and various other unique scenes. This route also is good for resting as the sometimes montonous sights beckon you to sleep and that's the ebauty of sleeping car travel...your bed is available whenever you want to take a nap. As for the new schedule, I see this as a precurser to getting rid of the Sunset as it doesn't connect with anything at NOL and only time will tell if conenctions with the Starlight in LA are reliable. I look for Amtrak to get their desired stub train someday between NOL and SAS which will kill what business there is. Anyway, back to Train Granny...I echo the suggestion of breaking up the trip in California. But beware of Santa Barbara as hotels are often sold out or require 2 night weekend minimums at a princely sum. Other less popular locales allow decent stopovers including Oxnard and Burbank. You may want to consider one of the above over LA for a stopover. In my opinion, the Metro Plaza is a bit on the seedy side and I have seem some questionable charaters right in front of there along the street. Enjoy the upcoming visit to Chicago...here's hoping you have time to walk around The Loop as the architecture is amazing.
Posts: 561 | Registered: Jul 2003
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What I like most about your plan for the western trains, is that in general you move up from the least scenic to the most scenic.
TwinStarRocket, I'm glad you think I'm a good planner... least scenic to most scenic...but, believe me, the progression was totally random! It's exciting, however, to think that the best might be last!!
posted
I, too, have had the pleasure of Mr. Norman's company over a pizza or two. In general, I rate him "more positives than negatives."
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
There isn't much to see between San Jose and Emeryville on the Coast Starlight. It's mostly urban industrial scenery that isn't very interesting to see once and it's even more boring 12 hours later. Get off the Starlight in San Jose, spend the night there and head back south in the morning. You could also spend 2 nights in SJC and use Caltrain to spend the day in San Francisco.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Vincent206: There isn't much to see between San Jose and Emeryville on the Coast Starlight. It's mostly urban industrial scenery that isn't very interesting to see once and it's even more boring 12 hours later. Get off the Starlight in San Jose, spend the night there and head back south in the morning. You could also spend 2 nights in SJC and use Caltrain to spend the day in San Francisco.
posted
Responding to SilverStar regarding the Metro Plaza -
I'll not for a second argue that the property is 'posh' and should Marty stay there, I would recommend a cab coming in off the Coast Starlight after dark even though the hotel is very close.
I wouldn't go quite so far as to say seedy but then I'm 6'4" and other than being constantly panhandled in Philadelphia's station, have never been 'messed with' to any degree.....
I accept that others may have had different experiences though..... I have only used the Metro Plaza as a place to sleep after one train and until deparing for the next one!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Metro Plaza is in Los Angeles..... very near the train station.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Well, hopefully something will eventually be worked out for a New Orleans to Orlando leg of the Sunset.
Mr. Norman: Did you say you have met with all of those Forum members, "face to face" in a literal sense? If so, I find it somewhat remarkable that you were able to do that, considering members are from one end of the country to the other.
I have often wondered if it might be possible for a meeting of Forum people to take place. Possibly some summer at the Izaak Walton?
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Richard, I guess my term "Face-to-Face" in this Facebook era (to which I bid adios after three weeks last year) needs to be clarified.
I have physically stood on the same ground any of the persons holding the screenames I earlier referenced. Additionally, there are eight others active one time or the other at Railroad Net but not here that I have met over the years.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
And Miller's Pub is the dining place of choice, great food.
It's easy for all of us to meet GBN as Chicago is the hub of the country for us rail fans. I have even made it twice.
Also had the privilege of meeting TwinStarRocket (Jerry) in MSP and TBlack (Tom) in Boston who even brought us to his lovely home for a great dinner.
And of course Frank in SBA and his partner Norm are great friends. Norm and I play Words with Friends as he flies all over the world. Watching Henry Kisor's interesting posts on Facebook is worth signing up for same.
This forum is indeed a wonderful place.
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
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GBN is perfectly positioned..... and I have considered this before..... for meet-ups. Any of us who travel by long-distance train on a regular basis will eventually pass through Chicago.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Well, as of a few moments ago, it appears that Dr. Hale and Sister (whose name I have not seen publicly disclosed) are set for an early arrival at CUS. However, Mr. Presley knows what a Train Status "early arrival' can mean.
Also of interest; there are reports that the consist of the Anniversary Exhibit Train is being handled on the head of #29(21).
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Ah yes - a Capitol Limited expected early stopped dead-in-it's tracks for 90 minutes at the Hammond-Whiting depot by a sticky drawbridge.
It was not wholly unpleasant though...... my roomette was warm and the snowflakes outside big and puffy.
I've endured worse delays entering Chicago aboard the Cardinal and entering New Orleans on the erstwhile 'Sunset East' where a red signal held us only three miles out for two hours. It was as if a passenger train meandering into that block three times a week caught the CSX dispatcher completely by surprise.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Train Granny, If you are awake and not at breakfast at 7am when you pass through St. Paul in August, I would be pleased to meet you face-to-face when the train stops here for 40 minutes. I live walking distance from the MSP Amtrak (an ugly Amshack soon to be replaced by the magnificently restored St. Paul Union Depot later this year).
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Vincent206: Looks like you'll be among the first to experience the new and improved Sunset Limited schedule.
With its new 0530 arrival in LA, I'm not sure how improved it is. But we too, will give it a try later this summer.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I notice that you've booked your travel between LA and the Bay Area in coach. You will want to upgrade to sleeper on at least one of those legs so you can spend a day in one of Amtrak's Pacific Parlour Cars. They are heritage equipment (that means old, but refurbished) from the Santa Fe railroad and they serve as a special lounge car for first class passengers on the Coast Starlight. You can eat your meals in the PPC, there's a daily wine tasting and the view is great.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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The Pacific Parlour Cars were built for the ATSF El Capitan in 1956 (date according to Wikipedia). They are living example that well built and well maintained railroad passenger equipment will last almost indefinitely.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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