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For those who follow the steam excursion circuit, Norfolk Southern in association with the Tennessee Valley Railway Museum in Chattanooga, TN is dipping it's toes back into the steam excursion pool.
Three public excursion opportunities in North Carolina and Virginia were announced last Friday and tickets are on sale now through the good folks at TVRM. Motive power is steam locomotive #630, a 2-8-0 delivered to the Southern Railway in 1905 ..... sometimes assisted by diesels and sometimes not.
The trips - June 16 and 17, a half-dozen 90 minute, 24 mile roundtrips between the North Carolina Transportation Museuem in Spencer, NC and Barber Junction.
June 23 - a one-way ferry move (with motor coach return) from Spencer, NC to Winston-Salem, NC.
June 24 - a one-way ferry move (with motor coach return) from Winston-Salem to Roanoke, VA.
I've already ordered a ticket for the June 24th trip - the one trip of these that will be entirely on railroad I've never ridden before.
For more information..... and to order tickets to ride -
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I'll be sampling the Barber turns the weekend of the 16th. In checking some old issues of the OGR, it appears that this short route from Salisbury (Spencer is just a couple miles north) had little, if any, passenger service until, ironically, just before Amtrak.
Until then all passenger service to Asheville operated via Winston Salem from the north and via the Saluda route from the south. At the end though, Winston Salem service was ended and Asheville was served by a connecting local train at Salisbury on to Asheville. Barber is where the line from Winston Salem (and Greesboro) heads west to Asheville and is a junction with the line from Salisbury. I suspect freight service via Salisbury, was always robust as the large Linwood yard is just north of Salisbury/Spencer. Linwood was built about the time Southern closed the historic Spencer shops.
Also of note, on July 4 the NS will sponsor a photo shoot at the Spencer shops/museum. This will be particularly interesting as the NS will be bringing in all 20 of its newly built locomotives that have been painted in replica paint schemes of NS predecessor railroads. This includes Southern, Central of Georgia, and even New York Central lightning stripe. The event is being coordinated by the museum's board member and Trains magazine editor Jim Wrinn. During the holiday weekend railroad service is curtailed so the locomotives can be used for this occasion.
Gotta love a railroad whose CEO understand the importance of his railroad's history in this unique industry. Some say Mr. Moorman is also a closet railfan.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I'll likely go down to Spencer for the Heritage units..... and while the Spencer-Barber trips are enticing, I've had the opportunity to ride that line before. Winston-Salem - Roanoke will be entirely new 'rare=mileage' for me.... and if I'm going to drive three hours each way, I want a bit more than a 12-mile train ride!
I think there is no doubt that Mr. Moorman likes trains!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Palmland - you are aware, no doubt, that the vintage railroad station on the grounds at Spencer was originally the depot at Barber Junction. When I first mentioned the Spencer-Barber steam trips to my wife she commented "300 yards is an awfully short train ride!"
Recently at a train show I purchased a Southern Railway passenger timetable from November 1970. This was shortly after the Asheville train had been rerouted to connect at Salisbury rather than in Greensboro. The New York-Atlanta 'Piedmont' was still operating on an overnight schedule and southbound made the connection for Asheville around 8 or 9am. Early in 1971, before Amtrak started May 1st, the Piedmont lost it's sleeper and was shifted to a day schedule thus making the connection in Salisbury for Asheville shortly after 6pm.
Totally off-topic..... or at least mostly so.... I find it incredibly ironic that the last remnant of the Carolina Special made it's last run across Saluda Mountain on December 5th, 1968. The same day that the final westbound narrow gauge freight train on the Denver & Rio Grande departed Alamosa, CO and operated over Cumbres Pass.
Marty - 4:11am? YOU are an early riser! Ohhh..... make that 5:11am. I forgot that Railforum timestamps messages in Central Time on my computer. I could change that but why bother?
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: Totally off-topic..... or at least mostly so.... I find it incredibly ironic that the last remnant of the Skyland Special made it's last run across Saluda Mountain on December 5th, 1968. The same day that the final westbound narrow gauge freight train on the Denver & Rio Grande departed Alamosa, CO and operated over Cumbres Pass.
David: That was the Carolina Special. The Skyland Special died a few years previously.
One of my train riding regrets was not riding the Carolina Special across Saluda when I had a chance in about 1965. (I was in East Tennessee at the time.)
By the way, the Skyline Special arrived/left Jacksonville combined with the Kansas City-Florida Special. Its run between Columbia SC and Savannah GA was on a Southern line that is no more and was much slower than Seaboard's trains on the more or less parallel but shorter and signaled SAL line.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Don't forget we got the NRHS Convention 2012 in Cedar Rapids for four days of steam. 1. Midwest Threshers minus the 30,000 at Thresher Weekend in September 2. Rock Island to Yokum 3. Yokum to Newton 4. Boone & Scenic Valley
Tickets are still available for most trips.
Chris
Posts: 711 | From: Santa Ana | Registered: May 2003
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It was the Carolina Special rather than the Skyland Special. I knew that but don't know what I was thinking.
I've edited my original post to reflect the correct train name.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I recall seeing remnants of the Southern line in Hardeeville, SC near the CSX mainline. Did it use that (former ACL) into Savannah? I think the part from Savannah into Jax was on the ACL?
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by palmland: I recall seeing remnants of the Southern line in Hardeeville, SC near the CSX mainline. Did it use that (former ACL) into Savannah? I think the part from Savannah into Jax was on the ACL?
Yes. When I was writing I could not remember where the Southern line connected to the aCL
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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I'll add that the dealer who sold me the 1970 timetable was borderline stunned that I wanted it.
He said "It's really rare that I sell a pre-Amtrak public timetable anymore...... the number of folks out here who remember anything other than Amtrak are dwindling."
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Funny Mr. Presley, but I must note pre-Amtrak is ALL I remember.
This is likely because the '60's is when I was the active train rider, blazing the steps for you, TrainGranny, Mr. Kisor, Ms. Sojourner, and the many others here as well. This is when I took my real joyrides such as the Western "Circle trip' - including Trans Canada one direction CN and other CP, and several other point to point transcontinental trips. This is when the Century and Broadway were my regular "off to college" transportation and the Panama Ltd. was my regular "day in Chicago" ride from Champaign.
While not the whole truth by any means, Amtrak has largely been an "if I have somewhere to go and they are convenient, I know they are there and will consider using them".
There is only one major route coming to mind presently operated by Amtrak, namely 27-28, Empire Builder, Portland-Spokane on the SP&S, that I had not ridden pre-A-Day. The only Western route I've ridden post-A-Day "bumper to bumper" is #4 Chief, LA to Chi during June 1991.
Posts: 9976 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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To Mr. Norman's post I'll add that while I still enjoy getting out there and riding, I'm not so much about trying to ride bumper-to-bumper anymore.
I more about using what excursion time I have on 'value added' trips trying to use different combinations of routes squeezing the maximum mileage out of Guest Reward Points (would like to execute a DEN-SAC-PDX-HAV - is that Havre? - itinerary someday), and keeping my eye out for special excursions operating with dome cars and/or on new or rare mileage itineraries.
For instance - a June 24th Norfolk Southern steam trip from Winston-Salem, NC to Roanoke, VA on a former Norfolk & Western line which last saw scheduled passenger service in the early 1960's.
Beyond that this summer I'm hoping to visit the stations in St. Louis and Kansas City and perhaps add one of the few segments of the current Amtrak system which I'm missing...... namely Quincy, IL - Galesburg, IL on the old CB&Q.
Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Quick report on the NS steam short excursions yesterday from Spencer to Barber, NC.
Make no mistake, even though the tickets were sold through the TVRM and several of the coaches were TVRM ownership (as well as Watuga Valley NRHS), this was an NS show.
A gorgeous day helped set the tone for a well run operation. NS employees were all over the place - I counted 6 on the ground at Barber to assist in the move around the wye. An NS crew was on the train with the conductor in the rear vestibule of the last coach. A great spot to be since there was no other open windows/doors. With radio in hand he was calling the signals and listening to the dispatcher. He said the line from Linwood to Asheville was quite busy - he had been working every day on his rest for the past month. No plans to restore Saluda, but they would be repairing a recent washout and finding a permanent fix for repeated problems at that spot.
My coach was ex CofG Jim Crow car from the Nancy Hanks II. Hard to believe I had been on that train some 50 years ago. As it was behind the engine, it was a treat to listen to 630 whistle for the crossings (and it was a deep whistle, almost like 611's).
Since there was 3 of the short excursions, it provided plenty of opportunity for photos of the train from track side. The only negative - no first class seats and all coach seats were facing, so you were rubbing knees with your seatmates. But then the 7 car train (5 coaches, commissary, and baggage/tool car) was about all the little consolidation could handle. I hope 4501 can be returned to service while NS is still sponsoring this 21st Century Steam program.
On the return to Spencer from the Salisbury wye (just north of the station) we were on NS double track main line and passed a freight with both of us moving at track speed and blowing whistles/horns. Quite a thrill.
In addition to the run to Roanoke next weekend, I see the NS is offering another trip from Roanoke to Bristol (presumably enroute to home base in Chattanooga) - now that would be an excursion.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I agree with you regarding the 4501. What is unknown at this point is whether this 21st Century Steam thing will evolve into something larger, stay about what it is right now, or fade rather quickly. I do hear that there are a number of folks up in the Roanoke area who are hopeful that it will grow large enough that the 611 will be needed again.
I wish I could take on the Roanoke - Bristol move but we will be on a family vacation to New Mexico and Colorado while that one gets underway.
I'm curious about the Spencer-Barber trips - Did they wye the entire train or just the locomotive at Barber?
What about on the Spencer end? Unless things have changed at Spencer since last fall, special movements enter the museum grounds only on the north end which means the train would have to either back in or back out. Where they turning the locomotive on the turntable there or where they using the wye where the line to Asheville diverges? And again, if they used the wye in Salisbury, were they turning the entire train or just the locomotive?
PS - thanks to Youtube here are some clues in answering my questions..... plus a chance to hear that deep whistle. 21st Century Steam
Thanks,
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Thinking briefly of the old Southern Railway and later Norfolk Southern excursions, I had nearly forgotten the Saturday spectacle of a couple hundred railfans descending on a photogenic bridge or small town grade crossing with cameras draped around their necks while local passerbys stared in bewilderment....... and then a train powered by a vintage steam locomotive blasts through setting off a commotion as chasers hop back in their vehicles and try to get out of town without maiming another foamer or some unsuspecting local citizen inadvertantly caught in the crossfire.
Yep - THOSE were the days.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Good ol' You Tube- thanks, David. I think it does answer your questions. As you may have guessed with the northbound departure we backed down to the station before heading west on the SW quadrant of the Salisbury wye. It was strange to be sitting at the station behind steam and looking at passengers ready to board the Piedmont that was due shortly.
At Barber, after heading up the NE quadrant (toward Winston-Salem), we backed the train around the NW quadrant before heading back east (and across the diamond of the W-S to Charlotte secondary line).
While the video shows the train backing from Salisbury to the museum on the return and then heading into the museum, unless my memory has totally failed, we headed around the NW quadrant at Salisbury and highballed to the museum switch, then backed in. That is also what the morning train had done, so that last segment of the video must have been the 3pm train - the last of the day. Perhaps made it easier to cut off the engine to take into the old shops where there were 3 NS highside gons of coal with a clamshell crane sitting in one of them for a 2012 version of a coal tower.
To add to the atmosphere of the day, a Thunderbird club had a dozen or so 1950's T-Birds on display and the regular museum train was operating with an FP-7. Good to see the parking lot at the shops filled and, surprisingly, I think there were more young families than old guys at the event.
One other footnote. It was obvious the NS had done considerable work at Barber. Not sure if it was for the steam program or part of regular maintenance but brush had been cleared and, at least on the leg of the wye towards W-S, every 5th tie had been replaced.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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