Drove in to the metro St. Louis area this afternoon (temp 105 on arrival) and checked into a Choice Hotels property on the outskirts then promptly drove to a nearby lightrail station. Caught Metrolink downtown for my first visit to the St. Louis Gateway Station.
I was underwhelmed. We waited nearly 30 years for this? A glorified Greyhound Depot sulking under an overpass.
I was STUNNED that there was no sort of train bulletin electronic or otherwise indicating scheduled arrivals and departures. NONE. What sort of self-respecting railroad depot doesn't post train times? Perhaps some in South America such as Paul Theroux writes about. (of course it is tropical hot here today......)
The waiting room at Gateway is squeezed in between the Greyhound and Amtrak ticket counters and is woefully inadequate for a Friday afternoon crowd of sweltering citizens.
There is a food court of sorts with 6 or 8 tables. One of them was being used by a person eating. Most of the others were occupied by folks with laptops - the last two tables sans laptops were occupied by folks hoping to strike it rich scratching off their newly purchased lottery tickets.
A shattered window pane in the bus waiting area was held togehter by electrical tape. There is no cellphone reception while waiting in line to enter the train boarding bridge because - well, you're under the overpass there. I can live without the cellphone for a bit BUT when you're trying to reach Julie for the train status information which ought to be posted in the first place....... it would be nice to get through. The live agents dealing with a line at the window and with everything running late due to the heat were in no mood to pleasantly answer the 5,009th question about train arrival times.
The bridge to the platforms itself is nice and modern but has no HVAC. It must have been 120 degrees up there even at 10:00pm. In earlier times we might call this bridge a concourse but nothing about this station is wide enough to warrent such a civilized label.
Yes - I did get up on the bridge because I took a quick spin to Alton on Lincoln Service 306 out and the 2 hour late (heat restrictions) Texas Eagle back. Passengers on 306 were stuffed into the front two coaches because the AC had failed in the rear two coaches. I will note that the Horizon coaches have been redone and are much nicer than the one I rode overnight on the soon to expire Kentucky Cardinal a decade ago.
Note that had everything been 'right on time', I would have had just 7 minutes on the ground in Alton. I was expecting enough delay to 'make it work' and I figured my odds were good since the ROW through Alton is single track for some distance.
Also noted a whole lot of track work since mylast visit here in 2005.....including what looks like brand new concrete crossties at Alton....where all of the train times are posted in at least three places!
Alton - I picked a bad day to go there because it was sweltering hot and the ticket agent goes home at 3:30pm. There is a time lapse lock which opens the waiting room at other times BUT when I hit the platform at 6:40pm, it was locked.... even though the sign on the door indicated it would be open until 7:30pm.
The door did not unlock allowing myself and one other passenger access to the waiting room until 8:15pm....... though the sign indicated it was scheduled to reopen at 9:00pm.
In the 90 minutes of sweltering time I discovered - HONEST - a mail slot on the front door. By pushing the mail slot open, a blast of cool air escaped..... just enough on my face every ten minutes or so to prevent heatstroke.
For my short ride back on the Texas Eagle I was reminded why I prefer sleeper for longer trips. Incessant cell phone chatter all around. One loud young woman behind me must have been a compulsive liar. She told one person she was on her way to see her boyfriend who had just returned from Afghanistan..... another that her boyfriend was in prison but she couldn't remember what for...... OMG for goodness sake. It's like the punch line to the preacher joke that goes "Dang son, I don't believe I would of told that!" I'm sure the person on the other end of her cell conversations can't wait to see the new tattoo she's going to get in Dallas.....once she decides which one she wants.
Interesting consist on #21 tonight - 2 locomotives, baggage, transition dorm, 2 coaches, 2 of the former Cross-Country Cafe cars.... the first serving as an already closed for St. Louis upon arrival in Alton and the 2nd as a diner making last call, 1 more coach behind the two food service cars, a sleeper, and then the final to be dropped in St. Louis coach on the rear.
I was actually hoping to enjoy a Diet Pepsi while watching for the arch from the sightseer lounge on #21......oh well.
Note that the CCC cars have been reconfigured since I last rode one on the City of New Orleans. The inward facing booths in the longer section of the car have been replaced by more nearly conventional four person tables..... albeit a shade smaller than in a conventional diner.
Also note that even upon arriving well over two hours late in St. Louis, we stopped once to drop the coach on the rear, pulled forward, and BACKED the remaining consist in on adjacent track meaning we were in St. Louis nearly 15 minutes before we were able to detrain. Yes, I recognize that this allows the road crew to make the one switching move without neccessitating a crew just to switch...... BUT is the switch itself neccessary since all you are doing is dropping one coach from the rear of the train?
OK - I'm beat and I'm turning in...... maybe the sight of Kansas City Union Station tommorrow will restore my faith a bit.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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David -- sounds like you had ONE HOT TRIP!!!! Sorry about your disappointment with the new STL station -- I was wondering what the new station was like. On Google Earth, it looks a lot nicer than the old "bus stop" station, but apparently not really, eh? Seems way inadequate for the amount of passenger trffic it handles.
I guess I've been lucky with the heat -- while the rest of the Midwest is sweltering hot, it's only been in the 80's up here in northern Michigan -- nice!!! No one up here has or needs air conditioning, even on days like the last week or so, since it still cools off at night considerably -- my ceiling fans do a great job of cooling the house!!!
I was wondering if the CZ has been affected by all the fires in Colorado, but somebody posted a message on another thread saying that the CZ has been rerouted thru WY. I hope that changes by the end of August, when I take my 2012 trip, which does include a stint on the CZ from SAC to CHI. (P.S. and yes, I made a reservation at Vagabond Inn for the night before my CZ segment)
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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Yes the new station is a disappointment. It is hard to believe that St. Louis Union Station was once the busiest train station in the U.S. And St. Louis was a major passenger rail hub. I have taken trains in and out of the old Union Station long before Amtrak (GM&O, Mo Pac, Frisco) came into existence. My wife took an Amtrak train out of Union Station before they moved to the pathetic Amshack circa 1976. Union Station was not very appealing at that time. It was virtually empty. I think that Amtrak had one or two tracks in the huge dark cavernous train shed. After enduring the embarrasing Amshack era Amtrak SLOWLY built the new station. To be fair the concept was good. It was to be intermodal combining Metro Link light rail connecting to Lambert Field, and Greyhound with inter-city rail. But it is entirely inadequate. It is more or less a dressed up Amshack in some respects. I too find it hard to believe that there is no electronic posting of train status in the station. Especially when one considers the number of trains that use the station. There is the Eagle twice a day, the River Runner twice a day (STL-KCY), and about four Lincoln Service runs between St. Louis and Chicago connecting with Milwaukee, Minneapolis and Detroit. And the biggest mystery of all is why on earth did Amtrak not stay in Union Station? I suppose the answer is contained in the some of these reasons: "follow the money", city state and federal government incompetence, Amtrak management lack of vision, and simply a lack appreciation and understanding what rail travel is about. Union Station is now a luxury hotel and a hum drum you see one you've seen'em all shopping mall. The latest proposal is to turn the former train shed into a water park. The owner of the Rams is tendering that idea. What a missed opportunity to have made Union Station a show place for rail travel and promote the many wonderful qualities of the St. Louis area.
Posts: 140 | Registered: Nov 2008
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The new St. Louis station is clearly better than the Amshack was and the access to Metrolink is probably the best thing going for it....
However, the 'new' temporary station which Amtrak now uses as a crew facility was a more pleasant place to wait for a train when I was last through St. Louis in 2005!
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Interesting, if a bit depressing, report David. And thanks for breathing a little life into the forum.
It would seem that with a little initiative Amtrak could find a short term fix for some of the problems (how hard would it be to rig up a white board to post delays, fix a window, or monitor use of the the tables). I can only imagine what it will be like when the frequencies and ridership increase when the high speed improvements are completed.
Too bad Graham Claytor wasn't involved in resurrecting the Union Terminal, as Iron Mtn suggests, as he did with Cincinnati and Washington. But I'm afraid the developers got there first. That would have been a far better solution with perhaps a streetcar to the light rail stop. But when first opened the mall was very nice. However, like most, it seems to have steadily declined. A water park??
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I think Palmland that I have been spoiled by the North Carolina DOT's station rehabilitation program where professionally manufactured signage showing all scheduled trains is prominantly displayed in every Amtrak station in the state..... with the possible exception of the brick Amshack on the outskirts of Gastonia which has so far eluded the station improvement program.
Missouri has done a respectable job mind you - at the very least some sprucing up at old stations along the way has taken place.... it's just that in North Carolina old stations have been made over from the ground up and the result has been stunning.
In Kansas City now sitting with the netbook and glancing out my window at the Westin directly at Kansas City Union Station! The space alloted Amtrak is barely bigger than a broom closet and the signage could be better...... but with that grand concourse open and just 20 feet away, it's a much better rail travel experience than St. Louis. I may stroll over later to watch the Southwest Chief make it's station stop.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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My wife has accused me of having an affair with Julie.
She says "Every so often you call 'Julie' on the phone and then you disappear for three days on a 'train trip'!
Enjoying the heat lightning over Kansas City Union Station as I type.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I hope you're managing to stay somewhat cool. I'm sitting here watching the morning news, and it is red hot in the area where you are. I don't know the humidity level, but I'd imagine it's probably up there as well. Here on the left coast, and the SF Bay Area specifically, it has been a very cool season so far (just like last year). I'm actually hoping for it to heat up so that it feels like summer! The last two years on the fourth of July, it has been cold, windy, and foggy----and this is in a location where we are normally around 100 during the summer. A cooling trend is definitely going on in my area, and has been for more than a few years now.
And on a train related note yet still OT, the Starlight (#11) cruised through Pleasanton yesterday morning. They were doing the Tehachapi reroute due to bridge work in Morgan Hill (CA). Interesting looking PV on the rear: "Tioga Pass", which is a Starlight 'regular', however the whole car was in primer grey. He's in the middle of having it painted---not sure what the new color scheme will be, but I do know it's an ex-CN biz car.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Sorry to hear your experience in St. Louis hasn't been more positive.
I actually like the St. Louis Gateway station, especially after experiencing the Amshack which was there before. I use this new station to/from Alton quite a bit since I have family in the Alton area. It would be nice if they had electronic boards with train info. in the station!
The Alton station folks are great people! But if you were there after the 4PM station hours you probably didn't meet them.
At St. Louis it is nice to have a little food court as opposed to the vending machine in the Amshack. The Light Rail connection there is nice also. You can get to points downtown or just one stop away is Union Station. I like that there are a couple restaurants at Union Station, but on the 2nd level there is a "history of railroads in St. Louis" exhibit. (atleast it was there a year ago)
Hope the rest of your trip is enjoyable!
Posts: 120 | From: Arizona | Registered: Mar 2007
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I enjoyed the comments on the Gateway Station. I always appreciate the discussion and the repartee. Very entertaining. Perhaps I was a bit harsh on the Gateway, but when one considers what could have been I sometimes get wistful and irritated with the results. Palmland I agree that posting train status should not be an impossible task. I think it is those little things that can become so annoying. But on the balance the Gateway is a VAST improvement over what was. It iwll be interesting to see if, as it looks that might happen in light of the Illinois improvements, rail traffic increases significantly in St. Louis what the impact will be. And I don't know what the effect of the Alton station upgrade will have on St. Louis but it sounds as if it will be a great improvement for the Metro East area. As to Missouri stations Kirkwood is a great little station. It is on the national historic register. It is manned primarily by volunteers. Parking is free. And of course Kansas City Union is great in that it was saved from the wrecking ball. As a callow youth I rode the Santa Fe from Chicago to KCY and then caught the KCS Flying Crow to Shreveport. Great memories.
Posts: 140 | Registered: Nov 2008
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Interesting thoughts are moving forth at this topic.
While I have never boarded or alighted a train at Gateway, I have done both with a "busteetoot" (trackwork) during Sept '10. The facility appeared "light and airy' and adequate for the rail and bus traffic being handled. The train status board is something that Amtrak should address in view of the present eight Daily arrivals and departures and especially should additional train frequencies be added. Regarding the inadequate wi-fi connections, even though I have no personal need to be "connected" 24/7 as do all too many here and elsewhere (I know a teen aged girl here in the neighborhood whose younger Sister tells me she is an insomniac because she simply "naps' through the night between texts and calls - I "stay out of that one" with her Mother and Father); as I've noted in the past around here, Amtrak has "simply got to get with the program" in this area.
Regarding Mr. Mountain's comments, I too have boarded and alighted trains, such as the MSP-STL "Zephyr Rocket" and the "Blue Bird" (also: Amtrak "Inter American"), at Union Station. I've also stayed at the Terminal Hotel where the rate was less than what I left the Marriott housekeeper for a tip during the Sep '10 trip. Obviously, the railroads were not about to maintain the property in the condition in which it is in today. All I can say is "hold on to your memories, Mr. Mountain; I will do same with mine' as such a facility is not what 21st century passenger railroading is all about.
Finally to Mr. Mountain, the KCS was "one that got away". I had planned during college a "joyride" KC-NO on it using the Flying Crow in one direction as it had an Obs-Lounge while the ostensibly premier "Southern Belle" did not, but for whatever reason, "I didn't". Then, come 1967, while I was serving in 'Nam, the road that proclaimed "we have no intention of getting out of the passenger business" did just that. For myself, my Oct 1967 TRAINS had just shown up with the noted proclamation - the very same evening after work, I went to the Base Library at Tan Son Nhut, picked up the two day old Journal, and there was the story to the contrary!!!!
Talk about the "TRAINS jinx".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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The Amtrak station is an Amshack inside the old space between the North Waiting room and the escalators. It uses a walkway along the East side of the North Waiting Room to get to its platform descent.
For four movements a day, I guess it's adequate.
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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PS David, that wasn't heat lightning. Up in the Northland, we got much needed rain!
-------------------- The City of Saint Louis (UP, 1967) is still my standard for passenger operations Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Glad to hear that there was some rain and not just a light show.
Just for the record - I am in agreement that the St. Louis Gateway Station is an improvement over the original Amshack.
Just saying that as long as it took to get it in place, I had expected better and I am not sure that it will be adequate to handle much of the growth in ridership which will come with improved Chicago-St. Louis service.
I had expected to be stunned much the way I was when I first set foot in the renovated ex-Southern Railway station in Greensboro, NC and I was not.
There will be another trip to St. Louis to do the family vacation thing with the arch and I'll give Gateway another chance.... not swearing it off at all.
The Amtrak space in KC...... adequate yes but not very well executed..... though nothing is stopping one from waiting for a train in the magnificent concourse..... and THAT is stunning.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:Originally posted by notelvis: I had expected to be stunned much the way I was when I first set foot in the renovated ex-Southern Railway station in Greensboro, NC and I was not.
Remember, this beautiful restoration and modernizatin was promoted by, designed and constructed under the direction of and a significant part funded by the state of North Carolina. I really want to get over there to see it sometime.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Mr. Norman, I appreciated your remarks as always. But I felt compelled to respond to your lament concerning never riding the KCS. First, thank you for your service in Vietnam. As to the Flying Crow I must share a nostalgic memory of my Kansas City to Shreveport trip. I am not sure exactly where we were as we rolled toward Shreveport but the scenery was very "southern", in that, most of the scenery was comprised of small sharecropper farms and cotton fields and pine trees. The whole landscape was underpinned by the deep south red dirt. One small farm, that was close to the tracks, stands out in my memory. There was a farmer wearing a big straw hat, a red and white polka dot handkerchief around his neck, and faded blue denim bib overalls. He was plowing behind a single mule. It was a big powerful beautiful animal. He was working in his corn patch, or as we in the Ozarks say a "roastin' ear patch". The scene looked as if an ad agency had set it up for a poster. Then later as we neared Shreveport the conductor or brakeman, I can't remember which, came walking through the car announcing our soon to be arrival in Shreveport. He was a big robust black man impeccably uniformed. But he didn't just bark out "Shreveport" in a clipped northern accent. He rared back slightly and boomed out "Shreeez uh poe". It was almsot a chant. What a good memory. How blessed I am that I experienced such a great mode of travel. Forgive me if I have strayed from the thread. Just a bit of railroad nostaglia.
Posts: 140 | Registered: Nov 2008
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I felt the same way you did about St Louis Station, David--an improvement over the Amshack, but very Greyhoundlike, esp inside. Outside there was some effort at color at least; inside it was all that drab Grey. And I agree the best thing was the proximity to transportation. It seemed a particular shame, though, given the lovely old station there. Like you, I didn't spend much time there--just overnight, got in late on Eagle, left in morning on MO River Runner, heading for JEfferson City. I did like JC, though, and its volunteer-manned station area down at the historic landing.
Hope things cool off for the rest of your travels and that you enjoy them.
Posts: 2642 | From: upstate New York | Registered: Mar 2004
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Digging through the list of ARRA applications , it looks like MO applied for $700,000 to start work on a real time information display system for the River Runner stations (see pg 13). The project was forwarded for technical evaluation but not selected for funding.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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That's encouraging that the desire seems, at least, to be there.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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