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I am sitting in Sacramento waiting for #14. ETA now 1:30 late. This will be my first time in the PPC.
#11 just hit a produce truck near Salinas and my #14 has not reported in since SBA. I think we are in for a long night at SAC, but maybe I will see Mt. Shasta by daylight. We are returning our rental at SMF and hanging out in Old Sac. So I will not have the internet until the PPC. Does it stay open overnight? I would be overjoyed if they let us overnight in SEA instead of bustitution when we miss the Builder.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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sorry we couldn't get together in Sac but they let us board our train 704 early so I;'m almost to Fresno. I may be home befiore you leave Sac at 1:40 AM if all goes right. Good luck on your trip.
Chris
Posts: 711 | From: Santa Ana | Registered: May 2003
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You certainly would have a fair case to make for subbing in 8(1) for 28(30). 14(29) is reporting a 9P arrival into Salinas. With the mandatory flaggings of the several grade crossings after SNS, slower freight loco speed, and loco changeout at Oakland tonight, I would guess that this train will become later as the evening progresses. If/once you get confirmation that 14(29) pax connecting to 28(30) are being bustituted to Pasco from KFS, I would request an overnight at Seattle (which you would probably have to pay for since you're declining bustitution) and a spot on Monday's #8. Roomettes on Monday's #8 from SEA to MSP are showing at a low $273 bucket so there's space whereas Monday's #28 is all but SO except for the Family Bedroom. Good luck if you choose to negotiate -- there's a good case to be made if 14(29) keeps losing time tonight.
Posts: 46 | From: Playa Del Rey, CA | Registered: Jan 2011
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I would gladly pay to go via SEA, but I am on a 2 zone Guest Rewards freebie. Via Seattle is an extra segment on AGR and I am not flush enough on points. Plenty of bedrooms on #8 Monday but 28 is full.
We have friends to stay with in Seattle if we overnight.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Have fun on the train! By the time you board, everyone will be asleep and things will be shut down. But as you noted, on the good side, you'll get to hit Northern California in daylight. It is SO worth it!!! The views and scenery are the absolute best!! I love it when 14 is late enough to allow for daylight views around Shasta Lake. You will really enjoy it.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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About a year ago my wife and I were on the #14 when we hit a produce truck in Salinas. Nine hours late getting in to Jack London.
Posts: 229 | From: Long Beach CA | Registered: Jan 2007
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From the lobby of the Sacramento station (2:45am) - 14 now due at 3:24am. Now I am hoping it gets later so they can't bus us.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Amtrak is optimistic - it shows a 3h43 late departure from Sacramento, but a 4 minute early ETA into Seattle! Same shows 1h22 ETA into Portland. This would be 14(29) in Amtrakese I guess.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Amtrak Status Reports indicate that 28 left PDX on-time...... and that 14 was just barely out of Albany, OR when it departed.
Hopefully TwinStar was able to make something else work but I'm afraid he has experienced a bus-t-tution.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Okay, so that is a missed connection with the Builder I think? Ugh...a bustitution is never any fun. Hopefully they at least got a clean, modern bus like a nice Prevost with TV screens and a working movie player.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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At last home with no connection to the internet until now. Finally got on at SAC at 3:30am. After I go sound to sleep Amtrak calls me at 4:12am (!) to tell me my train is running late in a recorded message and to call for details. I call back about 7am when I have a signal and they tell me we will arrive into PDX at 4:57pm and they will hold #28. Whoopee!
We relax, unpack, have a leisurely breakfast and I am about to take a shower and enjoy the PPC. Then about 20 minutes out of Klamath Falls they announce we are being bussed. I rush to the conductor before he even finishes the announcement and he says get on my phone fast before the tunnels, and I can change to avoid bus-t-tution. Every time I finally get through to someone we hit a tunnel and lose the connection. After connecting to Amtrak they finally tell me I have to call Guest Rewards. Then I lose them in a tunnel.
When I finally reach someone and tell them I am most willing to pay for my lodging and any additional train miles to not miss the whole purpose of the trip (the Cascade Mts. on the Starlight and the Columbia Gorge), they say "we can fix that". So they look it up and tell me they cannot break up my trip unless I use an additional 15,000 points. Meanwhile the train is pulling to a stop in Klamath Falls. All my pleading is to no avail. They say maybe I can call later and get some points back.
Now we have to repack and be off the train in about 2 minutes. I find a single pair of pants ON my suitcase in lower level baggage that is identical to a pair of my own and throw them in. Later I will find my own in the suitcase so now I am a thief.
The bus is old and bouncy and uncomfortable. No food is paid for, and it only stops briefly at Subway. One of our fellow bussed riders just had a laptop stolen on the Starlight and it was handled badly. They announced the theft on the PA and the suspect ditched the case in the bathroom and still had the laptop. Of course it happened just before K-Falls and now he does not know if it was recovered. His email was accessed.
After a wild fast bumpy cold ride we arrive in Pasco 2.5 hours ahead of the train with no station staffing until train time. It this point I am being converted to the "never again" school of thought. If there was any station to be bored out of your mind in (that is nowhere near the town), it is Pasco. We are even tempted to call a cab to drive us to something interesting.
Fortunately #28 is on time. The prospect of two straight nights on a depot bench when we should have been in a roomette would have been enough for me to never foam again.
The ride from Pasco to MSP was perfect. A bright near full moon on a clear night allowed me to see parts of Idaho and Montana that were beautiful. The train was never very late despite being full. The crew was excellent. But this was a duplicate of many trips I have taken before, and the whole purpose was to take the Starlight for the first time and see the PPC.
There is no reason Guest Rewards rules should be so inflexible that I could not salvage my trip. It would not have cost Amtrak a penny to let me overnight and catch a next day train. Giving me 20 minutes notice to change plans is unreasonable. Even before I made my reservation I pleaded to change in Seattle at my own expense to avoid the risk of a one hour connection. But 35,000 points for a 2 day trip in a roomette was just too steep.
My only experience with the Starlight is a disaster and I do not know if I am willing to try again. The Empire Builder was just the opposite and it had a more enjoyable ambiance.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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In my own experience you probably won't have any luck getting miles back but you might get a voucher.
Two years ago we were bussed from Seattle to PDX instead of being on the Starlight in a bedroom. They sent me a $200.00 travel voucher which I have had renewed once. It now expires in April, 2013 and can be renewed again if I haven't used it by then.
Frank in HOT (for us) and sunny SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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So should I be first dealing with Guest Rewards or Amtrak? This is all very unpleasant and I don't like to complain, but everyone so far seems to pass the buck. A voucher would be fine, but my primary complaint is inflexibility during unpredictable events. It is not my fault and it is not Amtrak's fault. But if I am forced to rely on a one hour connection that I did not want, then it should be the responsibility of the party creating that rule to make some compensation when it creates a hardship. But then it is a government agency (sigh) where rules become more important than customer service.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Why Pasco? As far as I can tell, you probably went very near the Builder's previous stop at Wishram on the 97? Two hours less on a - what? - eight hour bus ride must be a good fuel cost saving surely?
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Contact Guest rewards, then contact your Congress critters and complain. I would guess Amtrak will be contacting you after they hear from your Congress critters.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Yes, I would have preferred Wishram, but perhaps it is a checked baggage issue. The bus also stopped at Chemult just as the train pulled up and waited at the station, but there were no passengers getting on.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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As Mike Smith has said previously, sometimes it is cheaper to buy points than buy a ticket. So if I get a voucher, I suppose it will be for travel only and I cannot use it to buy points. How ironic. Maybe they should try selling point insurance.
Effectively, the product I purchased with points was devalued after the point of purchase. My solution (SEA) would have restored/increased the value of the product at no cost to Amtrak and an acceptable cost to me. But no, that is a violation of a rule.
And Mike, I hope my Congress critter is working on more important things than my problem with Amtrak (I'm naive). But thanks for the suggestion.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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I first tried Guest Rewards (after being told to contact them by on board staff and staff at SEA). I was told, very bluntly, "We don't do that." I called back, got the same answer but a much more pleasant agent who transferred me to Customer Service.
Yes, the voucher is only good for travel.
Frank in sunny and still very warm SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: Yes, I would have preferred Wishram, but perhaps it is a checked baggage issue. The bus also stopped at Chemult just as the train pulled up and waited at the station, but there were no passengers getting on.
Sorry if it sounded like my comments were directed at you - they were musings out loud!
I see Google has Klamath to Chemult at 1h31 compared to 1h15 for the train - an unusual turn of events!
You're probably right about the checked baggage issue as Wishram is not staffed.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Geoff, you didn't sound like the comments were directed at me. The bus driver drove very fast and beat the train to Chemult. My son occasionally drives band tour buses and he said a ride that rough would not have been tolerated.
The bus made a meal stop just across the Columbia from Wishram at Biggs Junction. We actually talked about hitch-hiking across the bridge to Wishram Amtrak just to escape the bus. By my son's GPS it was 11 miles (7.5 by rail) and involved 3 different highways. #28 had not yet left PDX at the time, and we figured we could have walked it if we didn't get a ride (Every train ride should be an adventure). It would have been a much nicer spot to wait for the train.
Unfortunately the nice bus driver took a head count when he loaded up, so we would have upset him, I'm sure. We had our luggage in the bus, and the driver was away at stops with the bus open (I cable locked my laptop).
I suppose having bus-t-tooted Amtrak passenger escapees would have resulted in even more rules in the future. Our Portland sleeper this trip had the Chicago-bound occupants of one room disappear the first night. Their luggage was gone but their coats were in their room. The crew searched the train for them and guessed they slipped out at Spokane.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Oh boy....I'm sorry you had this experience. I can just imagine getting ready to have a nice breakfast, get cleaned up, take your time---and then all of a sudden you have to get off in 20 minutes at KFS!! The one thing I don't understand is that your bus went to Chemult and waited for the Starlight? The SAME Starlight that you were just on? Why didn't they just keep you on the train until Chemult?? I don't understand that. I know that Klamath Falls is "the way we've always done it", but still, this doesn't make much sense. You basically paralleled the train all the way from KFS to Chemult. Weird.
Did you ever get to the Parlour Car?
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Likely, Mr. Smith, the same reasons that the bustitution was to Pasco rather than Wishram.
Amtrak has made arrangements with a motor bus operator in Kalamath Falls to have a charter Kalamath Falls to Pasco "ready to go with 'x' hours notice"; this considers that Kalamath Falls and Pasco are staffed stations able to transfer baggage between the train and bus, but also that "suitable lodging" is available for the driver and mechanical facilities for refueling and should the bus need any kind of repairs.
While of course to view the crossing of the Cascades and the passage along the Columbia River are scenic highlights (both of which I've done pre-Amtrak), the sightseeing is not part of the transportation contract.
The contract between Amtrak and Mr. Twin Star was fulfilled; shall we move on?
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I believe Mr. Norman is correct about the bus service. It was a Klamath Falls company and the checked baggage was loaded on the bus between the only 2 checked baggage stops possible.
However, transportation in a train with meals when it is available and empty at no additional cost to Amtrak should be part of the contract. By using Guest Rewards I lose the option of avoiding the risk of the 1 hour connection. When Amtrak repeatedly assures me I will make the connection (and they did up until 20 min before K-Falls), they deter me from making a date change (which I could and would have done up to the moment #14 left SAC).
I even offered to pay for my own transportation to Spokane by any means acceptable. But the rule seems to be no change can be made on AGR after departure time. There was plenty of sleeper space available.
When first reserving I begged them to let me make the train change in SEA, not to sight-see, but to guarantee my connection. It is a bad rule to require a train change with a one hour layover when a safer connection is available.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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On the lighter side of packing with 2 minutes notice: I just now found the bag of banana peels in a plastic bag I was about to throw in the big garbage on the #14 sleeper, ...in the bottom of my backpack.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Mr. Twin Star et al, there are enough legends out there to establish that rewards points users are treated as second class citizens. Starting with not earning points for point redeemed travel, reward point users have to accept "things" that confronted Mr. Twin Star. It would seem perfectly reasonable to include a 24 hour layover at Portland (meals and lodging at passenger's own expense), but they have their rules - and I'd dare say that as liberal as I've learned Amtrak is with redemption of points towards Sleeper travel, Amtrak beats out the airlines.
I have friends who say they can't recall when they last paid for an airline ticket - and they fly all the time (never mind I don't think she knows what a dry cleaners is - only knows what Goodwill Industries is and big time. Also they seem to redecorate the home "from the cellar to the dome" about every five years). But I've heard them tell me about reward point itineraries on United of KORD-KRNO routed KORD-KMSN-KSUX-KDEN on a puddle jumper; thence (sigh) KDEN-KRNO nonstop on "real" United. Come on, United is certainly in the nonstop KORD-KRNO market.
I signed up for Guest Rewards simply "to be one of the boys" around here. If they offered a "donate" option (as the airlines do), I'd bite in a heartbeat and have those 13780 "thingies" off to a good cause. So far as hotel plans, I'm in four of 'em, but the only rewards, based on my completed and planned 26 nights away from home this year, seems to be one night each from Marriott and Holiday Inn. Who knows when I'll see something from Westin and Hyatt - believe you me, I'm hardly loosing sleep over such.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: The contract between Amtrak and Mr. Twin Star was fulfilled; shall we move on?
No.
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Amtrak has made arrangements with a motor bus operator in Kalamath Falls to have a charter Kalamath Falls to Pasco "ready to go with 'x' hours notice"; this considers that Kalamath Falls and Pasco are staffed stations able to transfer baggage between the train and bus, but also that "suitable lodging" is available for the driver and mechanical facilities for refueling and should the bus need any kind of repairs.
Baggage issues aside, where the driver lodges or wants repairs is completely irrelevant. There is no reason why a driver can't go from A to D but only transport passengers between B and C - which is of course exactly what happened as I doubt the passengers boarded at the bus depot.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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To answer some stray questions, I did get a few minutes in the PPC and even poked my head into the movie theater. Their WI-FI did not work between Redding and K-Falls and is not on when the car is unattended. Pasco had no WI-FI. So I was in dark territory the whole trip.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Since Amtrak has apparently has a contract at the ready for coach (bus) service in KFS, and since they know it's a longgggg ride to Pasco, I wonder why they don't also have a contract with a local eatery to provide boxed meals for everyone? They have a contract along the High Line of the Empire Builder, and boxed meals are delivered to the train twice a day. It seems like it would be better food, and would make more economic sense than paying a restaurant bill for a few bus loads of passengers--maybe?
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: The contract between Amtrak and Mr. Twin Star was fulfilled; shall we move on?
No.
How, Mr. Mayo, was the contract not completed????????. Passengers and accompanaying baggage were transported with reasonable dispatch between the designated points.
Nowhere in the contract will one find a provision that sightseeing over the Cascade Mountains and along the Columbia River are to be provided.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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When one pays considerably more for a private room and meals and access to a shower for two days, and receives neither for one day, does that not entitle one to a partial refund. Our provided food was a small dish of tootsie rolls on the bus dashboard that no one touched. Lunch was a 30 minute stop at Subway for which we were required to pay. Amtrak told me no paid lunch.
If the announcement of busing were made while we were in the shower we might have missed the bus. We were told by Amtrak the connection would be made during all but the last 20 minutes of our ride and we were making up time. I am willing to concede that the first night spent mostly on a Sacramento depot bench instead of a roomette was not a reason to complain. I also totally agree I am not guaranteed scenery and that late trains are par for the course.
What I think I WAS entitled to was a reasonable amount of time on the Coast Starlight, timely and truthful information from Amtrak about my connection, and a certain amount of flexibility to accommodate me in a roomette instead of a bus when there are plenty of empty ones.
The PDX section of the builder has one sleeper. They are often full. The SEA portion has 2 sleepers with plenty of room on any day I wanted to travel. By putting me on a SEA sleeper they are quite possibly freeing up revenue space to paying customers. There is just no business logic in requiring me to rely on a one hour connection. It would be more satisfying to me to get them to change this rule than to receive any compensation.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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If my experience is any guide, you will not get anywhere by going back to Guest Rewards. Once points are spent, they're gone. However, it's worth trying a call to Amtrak customer service and emphasizing how much of your trip's value was lost. I received a $300 travel voucher from them following a routine bustitution from Pittsburgh to DC during the Capitol Limited track work earlier this year ($100 each for the three of us in a full bedroom, missing a meal).
-------------------- --------Eric H. Bowen
Stop by my website: Streamliner Schedules - Historic timetables of the great trains of the past! Posts: 413 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: Mar 2006
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Thank you, Eric. I just sent the identical email to Amtrak that I sent to Guest Rewards.
However, when I was on the phone to AGR en route they said I might get some points back if I contacted them.
The original cause of this event was a truck parked too close to the track in front of southbound #11, which ruptured the locomotive's fuel tank so that one of my #14's locomotives was needed for #11. Then a replacement loco had to be added to my #14 before SAC. If this could be classified as a "Force Majeure Event", then Amtrak's Terms of Transportation specify "The refund will be made in the original form of payment...".
I would be delighted with a voucher for about 25% of the value of the ticket (about $1400), which is in line with the portion of mileage and time we were forced (only by a rule) to not be provided a room, meals and shower.
As for the "pain and suffering" of finding 3 day old banana peels in my pack due to having to pack in 2 minutes, .....priceless! I should contact John Edwards if he is not in jail.
I did receive a wonderful added bonus of seeing Redding to K-Falls and Mt. Shasta by daylight, but only after no sleep due to a 3hr 30 min late train and a call from Amtrak at 4:12am. But if sight-seeing has no value in the contract, that's gotta work both ways.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: The contract between Amtrak and Mr. Twin Star was fulfilled; shall we move on?
No.
How, Mr. Mayo, was the contract not completed????????. Passengers and accompanaying baggage were transported with reasonable dispatch between the designated points.
You asked a question, "Shall we move on?" to which I answered "No". I shall be the sole arbiter of whether I choose to move on, not you.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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quote:Originally posted by TwinStarRocket: When one pays considerably more for a private room and meals and access to a shower for two days, and receives neither for one day, does that not entitle one to a partial refund. Our provided food was a small dish of tootsie rolls on the bus dashboard that no one touched. Lunch was a 30 minute stop at Subway for which we were required to pay. Amtrak told me no paid lunch.
I certainly agree that you lost out on things you would have been entitled to on-board the train. Even if their Ts&Cs state otherwise, a courtesy box lunch, voucher, or some other form of recompense would cost less than the lost revenue of the fed up passengers who vow never to travel Amtrak again.
Out of curiosity, is there a legal limit as to how long one can be transported on a bus without a meal/comfort break?
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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