Just realised that you mentioned Mallaig earlier - we actually took that train (the Jacobite express) from fort William to Mallaig and back for Harry's 4th birthday! We took the sleeper to and from fort William to London.
It would seem you and Harry have similar views on a lovely train trip! It poured with rain the day we did it, and we had time for a quick fish and chips in Mallaig, but it was a fab day out and Harry was allowed to stand in the cab of the steam train!
My only regret was not taking the sleeper immediately (we stayed for an extra day) and the kids would have been happier to stay at the station and get the sleeper than go back to the hotel for the night!
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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When I made that journey during 1979, the weather was adequately clear. I started from Glasgow, rode to Mallaig, ferry to Kyle of Localsh, thence to Inverness and an overnight sleeper back to Kings X.
I was far more the traveler once upon a time (some here may find hard to believe but I have been some 3/4th the way around the world - roundly 16E to 100E is missing) than I am today; fortunately I was able to do it all at a time when I was young enough to enjoy the experiences.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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That's lovely, Gilbert. I love Inverness and have taken the sleeper to Kings X from there too. Can I ask... how do US sleepers compare to UK ones? My children have always slept well on the UK / European ones.. I think your trains have more facilities?
Harry would love to go around the world, but - for the life of me - I can't find a good way around the bearing straights. He loves the trans siberian express, but Vladivostock is beyond me at the moment!!
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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Glenwood Springs is beyond where the 'midwest' ends. Is that not what the locals call the 'Inter-Mountain' region? West of the Rockies but east of the Sierra Nevadas?
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Depending on how much time you have in Washington, your stopover would be well spent in the Smithsonian Museums that line the National Mall. Top three are: American History, which besides the aforementioned steam locomotive in the basement, features the First Ladies'Inaugural gowns, historic automobiles, and Abraham Lincoln's suit and hat. Natural History: An extensive collection of nature dioramas with animals from every region of Earth. Also the Hope Diamond. Air and Space: Historical and iconic aircraft like the Wright Brothers' "Kitty Hawk Flyer", Charles Lindbergh's "Spirit of St. Louis", the Apollo 11 Space Capsule, and many more.
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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KacyB, we're not going to let you off so easily. We expect detailed daily dispatches, complete with photographs!
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Please keep us updated...... perhaps even remind us of when you'll be departing on each rail segment. We're not stalkers but we do enjoy vicariously keeping tabs on how the trains are doing timewise when one of our regulars is out riding.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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Everyone loves a great story and so far the prelude has been very interesting. Can't wait for the reports from the actual adventure.
Posts: 229 | From: Long Beach CA | Registered: Jan 2007
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Our plans are coming on really well. I just have one question: my kids really would like to go gold prospecting. Where is best on our trip? Ideally, I would like to take a steam train... I have 'heard' this is possible from SF< but cannot find a link.
We are going from Chicago - Glenwood Springs - SF - Portland. An advice on where we would go? Looks like I will have company from Chicago now, so hiring a car is no longer a non-option!
Thank you all. Karen x
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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Hi All, Just thought I would keep you updated on our plans.
We are all set... so our plans are NYC - Washington (Acela Express) then Wash - Chicago and from there we pick up the Califorian Zephyr, stopping at Denver for a steam train trip and then at Glenwood springs for the spa. From there to SF... then up the west coast to Vancouver and ALLLLL the way back across Canada to Toronto in one go... All 4 children will come across America with me, but the elder ones will meet their dad in SF and go to Las Vegas for a few days before flying home.
the little ones and I will head to Niagara before heading back to NYC (and a trip to FAO Schwarts!!!)
So, now that's all sorted, I'm open to any ideas on what to do in the various places / unmissable / overrated etc. Any ideas?
Also, I have been approached by an independant publisher to write a book on our trip... Given that this is primarily about the trains for Harry (who is the reason we are doing the trip at all) - what information do people want to know about trains?
thanks, Kacy. x
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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Kacy, while I do not know what the publisher of the proposed book has in mind—i.e., what audience the publisher wants the book addressed to—I surmise that families, especially those with special needs children, are the target.
If that is true, I would avoid a lot of nuts and bolts detail about railroading EXCEPT the things small children would be interested in. And that could be a good deal of simple information about locomotives, cars and the like. Your son could be a good filter for this information.
Parents would, I think, be interested in the logistics of the trip, especially how you put it together, and the costs. I would not be exact about the costs--just round off to the nearest three figures. Be sure to specify the year of the trip so that readers down the line can allow for inflation.
It might be a good idea to describe the trip from multiple points of view, including that of your son.
These ideas are just to start you off.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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Kacy -- sounds like a great itinerary! You and the kids will enjoy it, especially the Coast Starlight up the west coast and the trans-Canada trip. From the new schdule of the Canadian, it appears that you still go through the Canadian Rockies eastbound by day, which you will enjoy.
What steam train are you going to visit in the Denver area?
Since apparently you are stopping in Niagara Falls, of course the Falls are spectacular. I assume you'll take either the Maple Leaf or a local VIA train from Toronto-Niagara, then stay overnight in Niagara (?), then take an Empire Service train back to NY the next day?
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ms. Karen, I presume the book you are planning will be themed "a European child's view of North American railroads'. If such be the case, then I would hope your book will bring out that passenger trains away from the Northeast are really a "sideshow" over here and that freight transportation is what it is all about.
I think that will become evident to you as you will see the only railroad facilities and trains that handle freight. Most, like apparently your husband and/or your children's Father, simply "fly over" all of it.
But all told, it appears that you are taking a very balanced approach to this adventure and are planning far more than "eating sleeping and drinking trains" that many here will readily acknowledge they do on their journeys.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Which train are you going on from Washington, DC to Chicago? There are two - the Capitol Limited and the Cardinal (my preference before it got downgraded to a single deck train with limited food - is that still the case?).
Enjoy the trip and don't fuss over the delays. Though there are snack cars on your trains, I would stock up on nibbles and bottled drinks for the kids before boarding.
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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There is a nice Children's Museum in Denver a short cab ride from the Amtrak Station. I'll add a link below.
Like others, I am curious which steam train you're looking at in Colorado. There are many scenic railraods..... some of them a good 6-8 hour drive from Denver..... in Colorado.
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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And which steam train are you riding in Colorado? There are so many to choose from: Durango & Silverton, Cumbres & Toltec, Cripple Creek, Leadville, Rio Grande Scenic...
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Hi All, thankyou for your replies. I will definitely look into the CHildren's museum. I am trying to come up with a range of things to do and have two zoos (central park and Toronto) and two aquariums (Chicago and Vancouver) in mind.
The trains are these: NYC - Wash Acela Express Wash - Chic Capitol Ltd Chic - SF Californian Zephyr SF - Port Coast Starlight Port - Vanc Amtrak Cascades Vanc - Toro The Canadian Toro - Niagara - NYC Maple Leaf
Georgetown is the name of the railroad we are visiting. It is 45 miles outside Denver (and I am taking the fifth and hiring a car PLUS driver :-)
I will explain my rather complicated family. My husband is father to all four children, but only the two little ones are mine (biologically). The elder two are my step children. And, yes, my husband will pretty much fly over the whole thing, picking us up at Glenwood Springs and onto SF. We have almost a week there, before I will return to the trains and he will take the elder children to Vegas by plane...
Kacy x
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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Ms. Karen, aboard #5, Zephyr, you will be in the middle of the 6.2 mile Moffat Tunnel when X-ing the Continental Divide at an altitude of 9200ft.
The Continental Divide is simply a point in the land mass where on one side of it, rivers flow in one direction and on the other in the opposite. Here the Divide largely follows the North-South mountain range that extends the length of North and South America. In the US, in many places it is within a sharp mountain range, such as the Rockies in Colorado, in others, you wouldn't even know you X'd it were it not for some signage by a highway.
I'm not completely sure where such a Divide is in Great Britain; it seems like, just based on my observations when I've "been over", the Thames and the Tweed flow Eastward to the North Sea, yet the Severn flows Westward to the Irish Sea. On the European Continent, again drawing from my limited observations from journeys past, it seems like the Rhine, Seine, Elbe all flow Northward to the Baltic Sea, yet the Rhone flows Southward to the Med. If such be the case, then there would appear to be a Divide traversing the Continent in an East West direction, but traveling from Avignon to Paris I cannot recall any noticeable mountain pass (same as over here on rail routes used by the Sunset, or on one - BNSF Transcon) that do not have passenger train service.
Finally, and to move away from the rivers, I again want to impress that I believe you will find that North American railroading is simply "not about" passenger trains; they are about moving freight - and in volumes that will simply astound a visitor from overseas. While navigable waterways are available to most industrial and commercial centers, the inland waterways primarily flow North-South through the "midsection'. While there is much highway transport (trucks/"lorries"), the economics are simply against such being more than a means to "feed" into rail and waterways and to move overland the traffic that has high value sufficient to justify much higher rates than rail transport. While in the Northeast, especially on your NY-Wash segment, you will see passenger trains operating on frequencies about the same as you do in the UK, that is hardly the case elsewhere. The trains you will ride are "one a days", or, with the companion train in the opposite direction, the only ones on those rails. That there are any passenger trains on the routes you plan to ride away from the Northeast is simply a political accident, and I contend exist only because the managers of investor owned railroads "made a bad bet" some forty years ago and find themselves locked into operating government sponsored trains that they would just as soon not operate. But passenger trains, whether people ride them or not, are popular with elected politicians, and the railroads have simply decided it is simply most expedient to "just live with 'em" rather than making a concerted effort, through "behind the scenes" lobbying by their trade association, to have them discontinued.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Kacy -- you will also cross the Continental Divide on the Canadian, around Mt. Robson, which is typically pointed out and announced by the dome car attendant. Unlike Colorado, and depending on the weather, you will actually see Mt. Robson and the Divide from the train.
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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Now that you have chosen to share your itinerary here at the Forum, there is one caveat I wish to add.
Your first journey will be on the Acela, which unquestionably is "Amtrak's best foot forward". Here is a high speed intercity service that holds its own with any in Western Europe - and I'd dare say more comfortable in "Business" (that's Coach) than that found on the TGV or Eurostar.
"Don't judge the rest of your trip by what you experienced aboard the Acela". It is simply "not there". Acela "gets the railroad" (which Amtrak owns) and with never less than two tracks and often many more; you will stop inexplicably on your other trains to wait for a freight or if moving you will be doing so at the freight train's speed. It is not account a railroad's intent (some disagree) to wilfully delay Amtrak; it is just there is so much traffic to move that generates the profit to keep the industry viable - and to add insult to injury, Amtrak is hardly paying these roads a "fair share" to handle their trains.
Just some thoughts to stow away until you come on over.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Ah....... the Georgetown Loop - that is a fascinating ride.
If you need anything more 'train' in the Denver area, there is also the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, CO...... roughly one third of the way from Denver to Georgetown and Silver Plume.
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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I don't know how much time you'll spend in Washington, but you could do worse than visit their excellent zoo. And in San Francisco, you should visit Pier 39, which became the home of hundreds of California Sea Lions - their idea. Since they are a protected species, nothing could be done to remove them, so they became a tourist attraction. If your kids like animals, maybe they'd like to see some in a place of their (the animals') choosing.
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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I am hoping (and I know I'm on a bit of a mission!) to take the kids on a tour of the white house while in Washington. I have heard that passes for non Americans are like gold dust... but I'm not one to be put off at the first hurdle :-)
I am rather fascinated by the general American view of train travel - it will be great to experience. I did calculate that the average speed of the Zephyr must be about 25mph :-)
We will DEFINITELY visit the sea lions on Pier 39. I am so looking forward to going back to San Francisco, and I have read that the journey from Emeryville to downtown SF is rather lovely (I hope so, because that's one small fact I haven't shared with the kids yet - that they will actually arrive at a bus station some way out of SF!!!!)
Thanks for the heads up on Georgetown. I think the 'big kids' will head off for a day in Denver, but we will make the most of the steam train!
Kacy. x
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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Kacy -- what you and Mr. Norman are not taking into consideration are the DWELL TIMES at some of the stations along the CZ route -- the CZ is scheduled to stop in Denver for almost an hour, and in Salt Lake City for almost 1/2 hour. In the areas near the major population centers (S.F. Bay area, Denver, SLC, Omaha, Chicago, etc.) the train will travel slow because of the large number of sidings, switches, crossings (whether at grade or above/below grade)and the amount of freight traffic. In the "wide open spaces" in the plains or desert between many cities on the CZ route, however, the CZ can legally operate at 79 mph. (travel through the Sierra Nevada Mtns and the Rockies is considerably slower)
I rode the CZ east from Sacramento last summer, and it arrived in Chicago more than 1/2 hour EARLY.
Mr. Norman is right about the NE Corridor and the Acela -- there are no grade crosssings at all between Washington & New York, since the RR is owned by AMTRAK and has been extensively upgraded over the last 30 years or so to allow high-speed efficient passenger trains, that can maintain a constant speed of 100 mph give-or-take.
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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Another place to visit while in San Francisco is the Cable Car Museum. This is a working museum where you'll see the cables that pull the cars. Also a machine shop where they work on both the cables and the cable cars.
Posts: 229 | From: Long Beach CA | Registered: Jan 2007
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Right now I'm packing for an overnight trip on the Starlight (in a roomette) and I'm collecting some of the things that might make my experience more pleasurable. [Kacy, you might want to make note of this list.] So far, I've packed a small amount of duct tape, some binder clips, an eye shade and ear plugs. Am I forgetting anything important? It's been over 2 years since my last overnight trip.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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Annoying creaks in the night, shafts of light from badly fitting curtains, etc. Duct tape and clips limit some of that to an extent. It's not like a washing machine bouncing around the room but you're on a moving train with its accompanying noises, most of which you can't do anything about though. Some folks find it too much of a difference from their nice quiet bed at home!
Unless Vincent was thinking of duct tape for the kids...?
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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No kids on this trip! I have only one kid still living at home and I've never taken him on an overnight trip. I don't think he's ready for a long trip, yet.
The duct tape and clips will be to make small repairs in window shades that don't close properly or if something needs to be held in place. The eye shade and ear plugs are for a better night sleep. I've also put a wristwatch into my bag.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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Kacy -- don't let this talk of duct tape and clips scare you away!!! I've been riding AMTRAK almost ever since they first started in 1971, and I have NEVER used these things!!
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ms. Karen, I too am astounded at the "need" for all this ancillary stuff. By now, you are aware and accept, even though traveling Sleeper for any overnight segments, that you and the kids are embarking on an "indoor camping adventure" and you will be roughing it (remember Coach is simply "subhuman" if you ask me). If you wanted creature comforts guaranteed, you would fly point to point (also subhuman; but with that, in six hours or less it's "over and done") and would stay at "three stars" (a major brand chain above their "econobrand" offering; i.e. for Marriott; Courtyard and up, but not Fairfield) or higher.
To Mr. Vincent, do you think you need an additional wristwatch beyond that you normally wear? Further, I seem to be on an overnight train every year (mostly Auto Train) and I'm not about to carry all that stuff. If you must, an Advil PM or other med with small amount of Diphenhydramine will do wonders for you (the kids; what do they care?).
And finally, about a need for a "shot"; even though I've never traveled about with small children (never married in this life; maybe the next), I can understand a reluctance in the Diner as it falls on you to "keep 'em in check". However in the confines of your Bedroom, why not? Even though when on Auto Train, there is all "the comp" you can responsibility drink, I find what Amtrak sells "by the half" (US$15) to be quite drinkable. The Sleeper Attendant will even fetch it for you (h/sh/e'd like a tip). But it should be noted that away from AT, I "pack my own".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Thankyou, Gilbert. I can say, I will be travelling with none of those things. We've slept on enough sleepers to know that they move about, are a bit cranky and bash into each other at the various stops when decoupling and coupling up. I've never known sleep be a problem :-)It would appear that my children sleep well on trains :-)
And, yes, you are right. I am doubly cautious about my son (he is autistic... hence the fascination with trains)... I can cope with any 'looks' if we are doing everything 'whiter than white'... but it looks bad if He's guzzling coke and I'm on the wine ;-)
I do appreciate all your posts and advice. While we are very excited about it, the more prepared I can be, the better.
Kacy x
Posts: 69 | From: UK | Registered: Nov 2012
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