posted
Not based on reality? Miss Vicki, could you explain why? I'm curious. This fellow is a heavyweight travel writer and is widely respected. Is he misrepresenting facts?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
First the disclaimer; although I have been on six cruises and two Trans-At sailings in this life and "grew up" sailing small boats (including competitive racing), I am no particular fan of the genre'. My reference to "Love Tubs" should tell it all.
As such, I think the referenced article is objective, fair and balanced. The best truism within such is that of "if it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is". Too many people go on cruises expecting a life of luxury and, for those so inclined, instant romance.
It ain't there, volks.
Excluding some of the "five star" premium restaurants now found shipboard (they "weren't when I last took a cruise during 1988) comments on the "standard fare' should be limited to "you will be served tasty food in an efficient manner"; forget all the tripe about "master chefs striving for culinary excellence". But reality should set in and recognize that there are three consecutive 1000 person banquets each evening aboard a 100KGRT cruise ship.
But I must say the quantity is there; the quality? well.....
As far as people to meet, I will in all fairness acknowledge I did meet some great people aboard, and even several resulted in "follow up" social activity. But it is still a hit or miss - no different than an Amtrak LD journey.
To continue, I have heard adverse comments from people I know not exactly from a seafaring background saying "oh the boat rocked around so much and I got sick". Volks this is a maritime vessel and the sea can be a mighty inhospitable place (I've been in a Cat III on a 36ft boat). Follow this work from the repertory; I think Mendelssohn wrote a very descriptive piece. Even the Caribbean is not always a mill pond.
Now regarding the reference to the legal no man's land any vessel on the high seas represents, there have been enough incidents reported by the media to suggest that there is foundation to this contention and the cruise-lines, even though US Corporations, will use any and all means from such to minimize their liability from claims - even the ones that are legitimate.
Now I know and respect members here get enjoyment from the cruising experience, and more power to you guys and gals. But I still think that there is too much oversell of the product to "John Q".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Excluding some of the "five star" premium restaurants now found shipboard (they "weren't when I last took a cruise during 1988) comments on the "standard fare' should be limited to "you will be served tasty food in an efficient manner"; forget all the tripe about "master chefs striving for culinary excellence". But reality should set in and recognize that there are three consecutive 1000 person banquets each evening.
I thought cruise ships were known for their excellent food. Is this not the case any more?
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
It does amaze me that those on a cruise seem to consider the maritime aspects of the voyage as something of a nuisance interrupting their nonstop eating, drinking, shopping. I enjoy the days at sea every bit as much as those in port.
On my one transatlantic voyage years ago, we encountered heavy seas in the North Atlantic. One memorable evening we were watching a movie in the lounge sitting on wooden chairs on a hardwood floor. With every big swell all the chairs would slide to one side and then back to the original spot. Everything thought it was great fun, but the movie was soon stopped.
But with a family Disney voyage in the near future, we'll see what the love tubs are all about.
Thanks to a son working for the company, we were able to experience a couple 120 passenger expedition type voyages where the food was outstanding, the passengers fascinating, and the atmosphere comfortably casual. On one the captain took us to any spot he thought looked interesting for glacier or wildlife viewing during our inland passage voyage. On another the zodiac made the rounds to those in the water snorkeling. He wasn't checking on us, just bringing mimosas to, no doubt, keep our strength up.
You do get what you pay for.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I would love to have access to buffet/cafeteria type food if it's good! Certain resorts in Vegas have figured out how to do it perfectly well (Wynn, the new one at Caesar's which is out of this world, and Bellagio). I can't imagine what it must be like on a cruise where you order your food, and then get up and walk away after eating without getting a bill. That sounds like so much fun!
A new magazine came in the mail a few weeks ago from AAA called, "Sojourns". They have cruises listed that depart and return from San Francisco, which would be perfect for me. No air transportation to worry about, and no hotel to worry about. I could just take BART from my house and head up to the ship. They have Mexican Riviera cruises, but I would want to go when it's warmer (although maybe it's warm there during our winter? I really don't know). But I saw those and they looked interesting, although the length is a bit longer than what I'm looking to do. I still want a 3-4 night trial before I do something longer. For that, I'll probably have to leave out of FL in order to go somewhere warm.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Henry Kisor: Not based on reality? Miss Vicki, could you explain why? I'm curious. This fellow is a heavyweight travel writer and is widely respected. Is he misrepresenting facts?
I think so. The paragraph that starts out the criticism is not factual. I can't seem to make it copy and paste here.
But the registering in foreign countries implying an effort to avoid taxes, proper safety rules, proper wages, is faulty. Just reading Captain Albert's blog gives one an idea of the many rules that must be met for any cruise line that uses a US port.
And wages are not substandard. Frank is on the Atlantic right now and not available to comment but I think he would also have some input here.
There is also not much nickel and diming going on although there are more extra charges than there used to be. But we have no trouble keeping the additional charges down to a minimum.
And yes Smitty, the food is wonderful. I sure hope we can get you on a cruise some day. The Mexican Riviera is always warm, just do it!
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
It's an interesting blog, indeed, but Captain Albert is an employee of a cruise line, and the cruise line sponsors the blog. Can we accept such a source as an impartial and objective vendor of the facts?
In the railroad world we wouldn't take at face value everything an Amtrak employee said on an Amtrak-sponsored website, would we?
Just sayin'.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
Why would the Captain be a less impartial and objective vendor of the facts than, say... the New York Times, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, or the LA Times?
Is there anything he posted that you would disagree with?
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Vicki and Mike: I think what the Captain writes is very interesting. Matter of fact, I enjoy his stuff. Learned a lot from it, too. He's a sprightly writer. I found nothing to disagree with and much to delight in. And I enjoyed his ship, the Statendam, two years ago.
It's what he doesn't address that is the issue, as it would be with any corporate-sponsored publication. They exist ultimately for the sake of their stockholders, and they would do nothing to cast an unflattering light on the company or the industry. It's the nature of the public relations beast.
True journalism tries to seek the truth, at least about things that have nothing to do with its owners, and sometimes succeeds. In the past it often did, though today that is much less common as newspapers shrink and go under.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I look at Captain Albert's blog as a description of his duties. I know that the ship has had problems with GI illness, plumbing,etc. and he never mentions those things. And he certainly has the corporate image in mind which of course is his image as well.
As to the crew salaries and benefits, he does not address them nor would I expect him to as that is not the purpose of his blog.
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Those are funny links, Henry, especially the USA one. Those poor mistreated workers on the USA flagged ship enjoyed their $52 or $116 in overtime back pay for the last 3 years. I wonder how many millions of dollars their lawyers got?
And the rest of the links appeared to be people whining incessantly about how mean cruise ships are to their employees, despite the fact that each employee wanted to be hired and they accepted the salary they were hired at and continued to renew their contractual employment offers for numerous seasons.
The biggest problem the whiners had was the unions were not getting any new money from these workers. The unions didn't get their "fair share" from these foreign workers.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Interestingly I have finally found a common bond with Mike Smith. Well put. And all the anecdotal commentary, especially from the personal injury law firm, does not impress me.
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
Vicki, the article on the personal injury law firm site first appeared in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. Sure, the law firm has a dog in the fight, but not the Sun-Sentinel.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
(Throwing up hands, muttering to self.) You can lead cruise fans to the water, but you can't make them think. Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
When I click on this thread, I get banner ads from Carnival featuring an 'almost everything's included' 7-day cruise starting at $479.
Restrictions apply.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
You're traveling with the wrong crowd, David. I get the banner ad for the Senior Luxury Cruises on The SilverSea. Apparently they have me confused with some of those wealthy seniors! LOL
-------------------- My new "default" station (EKH) has no baggage service or QuikTrak machine, but the parking is free! And the NY Central RR Museum is just across the tracks (but not open at Amtrak train times. . ..) Posts: 337 | From: Goshen, IN | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't get any ads at all. Wonder if that has something to do with Adblock on Google Chrome? Or maybe the cruise lines saw me coming.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Henry, my wife & I had fun on our Carnival cruise from Galveston to Cozumel earlier this year, and we anticipate a great time this coming June 2, when we go from Seattle to Skagway, Alaska & back, after going first class on Amtrak from Houston to Seattle.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
And Henry, the Sun-Sentinal definitely had a dog in that fight. They are all about sensational news that will keep the gullible public buying their paper.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Mike, I hope you have as good a time on your train/cruise trip as I plan to next February: bedrooms on the Chief going & coming and 14 days on H-A's Zaandam to Hawaii and back. (I'll be sure to file a sensational article, full of sun, sin, strife and scandal, so that you can continue to heap contumely upon the reporter rather than addressing the report itself.)
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
I will critique 1 report for you. Which one would you like for me to tear apart? Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
As someone who prefers being at sea than in port, I lament the almost non-existent liner voyages. Other than Cunard's Queen Mary 2 doing Atlantic crossings, there are only some positioning voyages and segments of world cruises available for the liner enthusiast. There have been so many changes in cruising since I first went to sea 40 years ago. While many of these changes are for the better, such as better cabins - all with toilet and shower - and the availability of private balconies, not everything can be said to be better.
Whilst trains, planes and many hotels maintain a class system, this has been frowned upon by a lot of passengers and most ship owners. There are a few deluxe ships (usually fairly small vessels) that can be said to be all first-class. But generally, any large one-class ship is going to be tourist-class in its ambiance, food and amenities, although the cabins may very well be first-class. That does not necessarily have to be poor. In the old days I had some excellent crossings in Tourist on Cunard and once on the French Line. Cunard maintains some tradition in having two levels of premium accommodation and restaurants: Princess Grill and Queen's Grill. This "class" of travel is not cheap and the standards (including dress standards, fortunately) are still quite high.
In real terms, cruising is cheaper today than it was 20 and maybe 30 years ago. But gone are the cheap 1970s 25 cent gin and tonic and $2.00 bottle of wine. Even considering the current value of a 1970s dollar, alcohol is a big money-maker for the modern ship operators, as is the sale of shore excursions and the cost of medical care. About 25 years ago we paid the Queen Elizabeth 2 hospital $10 to cure our son of sea-sickness. The minimum charge now for a doctor's visit on a Cunard ship is $90, so I'm told. With the US company Carnival owning over 50% of all passenger ships, there is a certain sameness to the on-board experience. British, German, Dutch, Italian ships, etc., no longer have most of the crew from their country of registry - if indeed they are still registered in their traditional ports. They are, essentially, themed ships. Even Cunard and P&O have recently dropped the UK registry in favour of Bermuda. I'm not saying that's a bad thing; I noticed no difference on my Cunard crossings since the change. But I am suspicious of many "flags of convenience." Like most fans of British ships I may not be happy with the "Carnivalisation" of Cunard and P&O in some ways, I am grateful to Carnival for buying those two historic steamship lines and allowing them to be managed from England. Without the huge investment Carnival made in new ships, there would be no Cunard today and very little of P&O.
Not counting liner voyages, our last cruise was 22 years ago: a fortnight from England to Norway. Most shore excursions are, understandably, by bus, which does not appeal to me. On that cruise two of our excursions were by train, including one train that came right to the ship's side.
Posts: 216 | From: Mississauga, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Jul 2000
| IP: Logged |
posted
That is strange that the class differences have mostly been eliminated. They certainly live on in train and plane travel. I guess it's easier for the passenger and cruise line just to dedicate an entire ship or brand to a particular class. So you go Carnival at the 'coach' end of things or Silversea for first glass.
Thank goodness tradition lives on at Cunard.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged |
Most illuminating is this "Q&A" with an experienced cruise traveler; I also find it interesting that he started to take cruises during 1985, which is within the range of when I decided during 1988 "I've had enough of this":
I find the report of a Queen Mary X-ing made during WNA, and in what I guess is Cabin Class, to be quite informative. Trans-At X-ings are a "been there done that" with me:
posted
I enjoyed both pieces, although I thought Mr. Brooks came across as shallow and Blimpish. Mr. Garner, on the other hand, is splendidly acerbic as well as wicked. Few journalists would think to suss out the information that on the QM 2 there are four refrigerated lockers for those who kick the bucket at sea and if that's not enough there's always the ice cream freezer.
On our cruise shortly I will be sure to ask the ice cream server if anyone's died aboard ship recently.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
Oh well Mr. Kisor; I know it is hard not to be envious that there is at least one paper still around with budget to bankroll adventures like "Mary Trans At" - and they "drew the line" with First Class and/or "in season".
Somehow, I doubt if yours has, or ever had, such.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by David: . . . the cost of medical care. About 25 years ago we paid the Queen Elizabeth 2 hospital $10 to cure our son of sea-sickness. The minimum charge now for a doctor's visit on a Cunard ship is $90, so I'm told.
This I found astounding. OK, I have never cruised and probably never will, but I would have thought availability of medical care would be part of the necessary facilities and would be gratis.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Oh well Mr. Kisor; I know it is hard not to be envious that there is at least one paper still around with budget to bankroll adventures like "Mary Trans At" - and they "drew the line" with First Class and/or "in season".
Somehow, I doubt if yours has, or ever had, such.
Actually the Sun-Times did have a travel budget like that when Rupert owned it. Part of his strategy was to throw travel money at the paper, even to book review editors. Unfortunately another part of his strategy was to populate the top echelons of the staff with drunken downmarket Brit and Aussie editors, and we all know what happened then.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
On most cruise ships medication for motion sickness is available gratis at Guest Relations. In really bad seas green apples and soda crackers are usually put out in a number of locations around the ship.
Mr. Harris, I don't understand why you would expect medical care would be free. Is it at home?
Most travelers take out insurance to cover the things that might go wrong on any trip. On our last cruise (11/12) I made two visits to the Medical Center on Celebrity Constellation to have a small infection dealt with. The total bill was $357 which my insurance paid for completely.
More recently my brother and sister-in-law were on a Mediterranean cruise on RCCL when she came down with pneumonia. The ship's doctors decided she would be better treated ashore so she entered a hospital in Messina, Italy where she stayed for six nights. The local port agent for RCCL was very helpful and the insurance not only arranged for transportation home in Business Class but also for a nurse to accompany them from the airport in Catania to their front door in Nashville. The cost of the insurance was $139.00 per person.
Frank in cold (for us) SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I enjoyed reading the Garner piece (link emailed to me). I did not notice it was a NYT piece. At least they do publish something useful and/or enjoyable every now and then.
And Mr Norman, normally I would assume you meant the NYT, but that paper is in bankruptcy or within weeks of being bankrupt.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I wish I had known that antipuke potions are available free on board. I wouldn't have spent good money yesterday at the drug store for sufficient Dramamine and Bonine.
Not for me but for the Mrs.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
posted
What David related, and immediately noted by Mr. Harris, is how the cruise lines appear to price their product nowadays.
They quote you a base fare barely enough to cover "passage" or that of the capital costs of the vessel, fuel (don't they know how to hit you up last minute for a "fuel surcharge"?), salaries and wages of officers, engineers, and seamen. The "hotel" staff lives on and for their tips. Everything else is "the extras".
Noted in The Times material is that a shipboard bill can equal that of the passage itself. Even an airline cannot make that claim with their "al a carte" pricing model today.
I just love how the "Shor-Ex" salesman gets to dress up as an officer to peddle his wares; I guess his wares do offer some greater degree of personal security beyond that of those Love Tubs have a way of sailing at Sundown.
The alcohol they sell on the high seas is tax free from any jurisdiction (last time I checked, God doesn't impose a liquor tax), do their prices reflect that? Even I don't know of the finite points, I understand that there are shipboard casino rules regarding table games to ensure a greater house advantage than on land - and slots? who'se around to ensure they pay much of all.
It is all just like going to a shopping mall - a smorgasbord designed to painlessly relieve you of your $$$$$.
One woman came my way in this life; she loved cruising (fairly wealthy may I add) another (not overly wealthy) loved Vegas (her Daughter lived in San Bernardino; good chance for a meet-up)- even though she never gamed (save a roll of nickels down a slot each visit), Had I not X'd paths with either, I doubt if I would ever been on a cruise or been to Vegas.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged |
posted
Just as the airlines reward their most frequent travelers with a variety of perks (Complimentary upgrades, admission to a private lounge, etc.) the cruise lines do the same.
We have reached a point at RCCL (Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Azamara) where we no longer pay for cocktails in the evening (Open bar from 5:00PM to 7:00PM) or in the morning (Private Lounge for continental breakfast and Mimosas or Bloody Marys).
We also get a shareholder's OBC (On Board Credit) and usually a pretty substantial one from the online agency we book with. On our last cruise (A Transatlantic from Southampton to Miami on Celebrity Constellation in December) we left the ship with a small balance left on the account. It was credited to my credit card the next day.
Henry, you might want to check with Vicki about the availability of free sea sickness remedies on HAL!
Frank in sunny but cool SBA.
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
| IP: Logged |
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
