posted
Is it just me, or does it seem like Carnival ships have a lot more issues than the others? It seems as if every time there is a "love tub" (in Normanese) floating adrift somewhere with some type of mechanical problem, it's a Carnival ship. At least I can say with confidence that my first cruise will not be on Carnival----I'm shooting for a non-rowdy, more upper-class type of thing.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
CNN reports that hulk will be towed to Mobile rather than a much closer port in Mexico and that the passengers can not expect to disembark until Thursday Feb 15:
Who knows why the closer Mexican port was ruled out; immigration issues (one would hope they would be waived in an emergency), access to air transport (what are the "won't flys" to do?), or possibly if a Mexican national was aboard, the vessel could be seized to satisfy any potential claims. But alas, I'm not an Admiralty lawyer nor do I play one on TV.
Wonder why I have heard Carnival referred as "the K-Mart of the cruise business".
But, lest we forget, Carnival has their upscale brands as well - notably, Holland America, Cunard, and Windstar. The question must be raised for how long can these vessels sailing under their "upscale" brands be immune from these "gremlins" affecting their mass market brand?
Finally, I'll never say my cruising days were devoid of any pleasant memories; but today, "it's just something I did in my past".
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Let us not forget the Norovirus Fleet. It is always in the news.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
In defense of cruise ships, and cruising in general, I would like to submit, for your delight and edification, a story I wrote that was published some time ago in the Los Angeles Times:
I certainly recognize that any fleet that flies under the flag of Liberia (as most cruise ships do) are suspect. Truly, your life ain't worth a nickel if you are careless but if your budget is limited and you have your wits about you, a cruise can give you your best return on your vacation dollar.
But when it comes to real sailing, this ain't it, as GBN wisely noted.
-------------------- Please visit "Chucksville" at http://www.chucksville.com and sign my guestbook! Posts: 324 | From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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quote: I certainly recognize that any fleet that flies under the flag of Liberia (as most cruise ships do) are suspect.
I don't believe we have ever sailed on a cruise ship registered in Liberia. Celebrity's ships are all registered in Malta and fly the Maltese flag. Holland America's ships are registered in the Netherlands and fly the Dutch flag. I believe the Cunard ships are now registered in Bermuda ending a long tradition of British registry.
Frank in cool but sunny and clear SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
Free sea sickness Rx on HAL ships, yes indeed. Henry, your trip must be coming up soon as the Hawaii season ends next month. Have a wonderful time.
Also note that the disabled ship is being towed to Mobile because the current has taken it 90 miles north and Mobile is now just as close. Plus 900 of the passengers do not have passports so that issue will be resolved.
Conditions on the ship sound dreadful. It was supposed to be a short four day cruise. Eeek!
-------------------- Vicki in usually sunny Southern California Posts: 951 | From: Redondo Beach, CA | Registered: Aug 2006
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Well, I suppose there are some ardent cruise fans on the ship that look at the extra time as a bonus! But 4 or 5 extra days would be a bit much, even for some of us who enjoy a long delay on a cross country train trip.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I was a bit surprised to read Vicki's post about 900 of the passengers not having a passport.
Here's what I found on the Carnival website:
CRUISE TRAVEL U.S. Citizens Carnival highly recommends all guests travel with a passport (valid for at least six months beyond completion of travel). Although a passport is not required for U.S. citizens taking cruises that begin & end in the same U.S. port, travelling with a passport enhances your disembarkation experience, as delays may be expected upon your return to the U.S. if you do not have one. Additionally, passports make it easier for you to fly from the U.S. to a foreign port should you miss your scheduled port of embarkation, or need to fly back to the U.S. for emergency reasons.
I guess the "highly recommends" went right over their heads. Or, more likely, they didn't read any of the pre-cruise information. I realize this was supposed to be a four night "fun cruise" but I can't imagine leaving the country without a passport.
Another point we should all be aware of is that the TSA is becoming much tighter about the name on your ticket or reservation matching EXACTLY the name on your ID. Most recently we were hassled by the TSA at LAX because our boarding cards had first and last names (One was a nickname -- Norm for Norman) -- but our passports included middle names. London based crew on the aircraft confirmed that they have had passengers denied boarding because of this.
Frank in sunny but still cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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posted
When we went on that cruise last year, we had to have our passports, or they would not let us on the ship. It goes to Cozumel.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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However, now that the State of The Union has been delivered, and that the pop;-guns have been silenced in the San Bernardino Mountains, the arrival of this vessel in Mobile will be the media event of the day.
4PM ET (2100 GMT) is the H-hour as of now; wonder what the cable news outlets will be airing at that time?
Finally, I'm waiting for someone here to ponder the absurdity why wasn't an Amtrak "rescue train" assembled to move everyone at their choosing either to New Orleans or even Galveston?
addendum 752A CT; so far, none of the three major cable news outlets have started a "countdown clock" for the docking; I'm surprised.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
GBN, Amtrak has a hard time adding extra cars let alone special trains. But you can bet the L&N would have done so.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Wow Mr. Palmland, the L&N could have come up with sixty some Coaches, home or foreign, on, I guess, three days notice?
From any of the news clips, it appears that the sea has been calm, but apparently a transfer of the passengers, by means of launches, to another vessel was ruled out. I defer to our "Mariners" around here for comments on that.
It was probably just as well that the vessel is being towed to a US port. As I noted earlier, the possibility of a civil seizure is certainly greater in a foreign jurisdiction, the passengers who did not have Passports (I haven't had one in twenty years; just no need) would have been under "house arrest", and the simple logistics of arranging air transportation from Progreso, YU, let alone busses to get from the docks the nearest airport, MMMO - Merida, (isn't a bus ride in Mexico scary enough; Miss Vickie and Mr. Art, one of those makes that taxicab ride we had together here look tame) would have been overwhelming.
So even if "a day was lost", it likely was just as well for all parties.
Stay tuned to the cable news outlet of your choice.
Addendum: "the latest"; one must wonder if the upscale Carnival brands frequented by several around here are immune form this treatment?
quote:Originally posted by Gilbert B Norman: Wow Mr. Palmland, the L&N could have come up with sixty some Coaches, home or foreign, on, I guess, three days notice?
No, not even the L&N could produce that many of their own. But it would have been possible to put 3 or 4 trains together with assistance from the Pullman Co. and whoever handled the Galveston passengers, MoPac or SP I guess.
With the ship wallowing in the gulf there would have been time to deadhead them in from Louisville, New Orleans and wherever Pullman had them stacked up. After Christmas holidays in the 60's I saw two 15/18 car Sugar Bowl specials go through Flomaton, AL on its way to the Crescent city. All cars were either L&N blue or pullman green (and maybe one or two PRR).
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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posted
Has anyone else watching news coverage of the hulk's return to Mobile noted the "CSX concert"?
It certainly appears that there are enough trains passing through Mobile nowadays (and CSX horns are very "musical"), but alas, it does not appear that any of the news outlets have camera operators who are railfans.
(I leave it to others to start playing the "why can't they bring back Sunset East" song).
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
I've missed those TV spots--maybe not playing on the left coast? But I do enjoy the sound of CSX's horns. Unless I'm mistaken, I believe that they use the same horns that Amtrak uses. I want to say it's a Nathan K5LA or something like that (I'm not a horn guru, so that's a guess). I also like how their ditch lights wig-wag back and forth every time they activate the horn. It's very eye-catching.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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posted
Now that the excitement is over, I've been wondering how one fire could knock out so much of the ship's infrastructure. In the old days, the engine room was separate from the generator room just so that didn't happen. Anybody here up on ship design/construction have any observations?
Mr. Black, if those vessels were flagged in the "first world", one has to wonder if they would be awarded certificates of seaworthiness.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
Don't foreign-flagged cruise liners have to earn an American certificate of seaworthiness in order to use U.S. ports?
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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This is my all time favorite Hancock diesel horn. Used by the Seaboard RR and I'm sure others.
If you didn't know, you'd think it was a steam whistle.
And speaking of horns, to sort of stay on topic, my granddaughter is excited about this horn she'll hear in several months at Port Canaveral.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I know they have to pass U.S. Coast Guard inspections. Are you at sea?
Palmland--
I really enjoyed the Disney horns! Thanks for the link. We have not sailed with them but other "grown up kid" friends have and really enjoyed it. There are a number of "Adults Only" areas on the ship.
Frank in sunny but cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Frank,it should be fun. Seems a good bribe is the best way to get both my sons and family together with us.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Henry,Frank, Certificates of seaworthiness and Coast Guard inspections don't deal with issues involving separating propulsion machinery from elecrtical generating machinery. My concern is that a fire in the engine room knocking out both the propulsion and the electricity must mean that they are not kept separate anymore. I think that needs to be addressed. TB
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Somehow, I think it safe to say that US Navy vessels are built with two engines in separate fire and water tight compartments. So was the s/s United States, which in essence was a Navy Troop Transport that had been outfitted as a passenger vessel.
I too am astounded how a fire affecting one engine could have disabled both as well as the entire "hotel" electrical power system. I trust they had an auxiliary generator on the uppermost deck to provide power for the navigation systems, but I have to wonder on that one.
Sure seems like some pretty big corners are cut and a lot of fingers X'd in the construction of these present day Love Tubs. Carnival has had simply too many of these incidents involving fire and other disablements at sea - and never mind the atrociously negligent seamanship from which the results still remain for all to view off the Tuscan coastline.
Thy sea, O God, so great, My boat so small, It cannot be that any happy fate, Will me befall, Save as Thy goodness opens paths for me, Through the consuming vastness of the sea.
--Author unknown
Be it noted I am not stating these Tubs are unsafe, for I have no credentials as a Naval Architect to make such a statement. But I honestly must wonder; could they be safer?
Finally, there was a piece appearing in The Times likely about thirty years ago that stated the Andrea Doria's design was so unseaworthy that the owners could have clearly and quickly determined their best interests were simply to "let her go". While of course what really counta is that all souls who survived the collision were saved, the owners were concerned about the potential for even more claims (and the "no-fault" agreement with the vessel that rammed her would be upset) and that she would have been seized if she ever went near a US Port or any port in a foreign state where any claimant resided. No doubt, this is the same rationale why the "Concordia" will be broken up (nautical for scrapped) when that hulk is finally floated.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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But for people like Jay Williams, a homeowner in the historic district who writes a blog for Charleston Communities for Cruise Control, a preservationist group, the nightmare on the Triumph is one more piece of evidence in the case against a fast-growing form of travel. “Cruise ships are sardine cans packed with passengers and crew, susceptible to horrific accidents that instantly can put thousands at risk for their lives,” he wrote after the episode.
m/s Carnival Dream had "hotel power issues" while docked at St. Maarten; no one endangered even if things got a bit "malodorous", but Carnival is reported to be making arrangements to "fly 'em all home".
Come to think of it, flying into or out of TNCM could be a "nail biter" for Aviophobes:
posted
With this latest incident, 4 of the last 5 incidents are with ships built at the Fincantieri ship yard in Italy. They're also all diesel electrics. So, my humble advice is do some research on the origins of your cruise ship prior to booking. And if just have to go on that Italian boat cruise, please bring your own porta-potty!
Tom
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
Argh. The MS Zaandam (Holland-America) I took on that Hawaiian cruise a couple of weeks ago is a Fincantieri-built ship. I wonder how many cruise ships were built there.
(Later. It seems that quite a number of cruise ships have been built by Fincantieri, perhaps more than any other shipbuilder. Judging from the commentary on Cruise Critic, possibly it is poor maintenance or some other source that causes these fires rather than anything to do with the shipyard. There seems to be no clear cause and effect link. Internet forum discussions on this issue seem to be fueled by unsupported opinion rather than actual reports from official investigative bodies.
(In the case of the Costa Concordia, a Fincantieri ship, it appears to have been the negligence of the captain that caused the wreck.
(By the way, at dinner one night the captain of Zaandam came on the ship's intercom, or whatever it's called, to send fire teams to a location on one of the passenger decks. Turns out the cause was a faulty icemaker in one of the crew utility rooms, and the fire was put out quickly.)
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
GBN -- thanks for the landing videos from St. Maarten -- I have been to St Maarten (about 20 years ago), but I don't remember flying that close to the ground upon landing. I'm surprised that beach is even open, because of its proximity to the airport.
Hmmm -- in "railroadese," I wonder if those airplane pilots are committing "rules violations"...........
Posts: 2428 | From: Grayling, MI | Registered: Mar 2002
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posted
Maybe those pilots were just making very skillful short-field landings. That runway is at the theoretical length limit for 747s.
As for the takeoff video, it's hard to understand why the authorities at St. Maarten have not closed the beach behind the runway if people are stupid enough to try to hang on the fence and try to beat the jet blast. Elsewhere concrete blast barriers are put up to prevent blast damage, but it doesn't seem that St. Maarten can do that. Those airliners need every bit of room for touchdowns.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
I must admit, despite all the bashing that the cruiselines (much quite justified with regards to one such), it was still a might impressive sight to watch three of 'em sail (2 "Carnies" 1 Disney) from the balcony of my hotel room in Miami (Marriott Biscayne Bay). One Carnival even used the turning basin without any tugs - struck me as impressive seamanship.
I guess if my flight had not been 45 ML, I would have seen even more. Yesterday, there were only two Carnivals docked, but I was "outta there" before either sailed.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Ships -- both cruise liners and cargo -- have not used tug boats for quite some time. Most docking is done using bow thrusters and either stern thrusters or Azipods -- stern propulsion systems that swivel.
We've had the experience several times of having the ship do a 360 either for docking purposes (Cobh/Cork, Ireland where we came into the bay and turned around so that we were facing out for departure) or sightseeing (A Chilean fjord near Puerto Montt).
Only once or twice in 24 cruises have we had tugs called out on standby where there was possible need because of tides or currents. They ended up not being used.
Perhaps the most amazing bit of seamanship I've seen was when the Captain of Navigator of the Seas "parallel parked" the ship between two others at the dock in Barcelona using only the thrusters and azipods.
Frank in cloudy and cool SBA
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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