posted
Maybe posted earlier, but the December issue of TRAINS magazines reports a change in the Starlight. Amtrak plans to replace the lower-level video arcade with business class seating.
I say a good move. I would also like the Starlight to replace the "beverage bar", in the parlor car, with a light meal serving bistro for sleeping car passengers. Have it open until late hours as an alternative to the dining car.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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A perk of the business class seating would be use of the PPC without having to splurge for a room. Great if you're not riding overnight. Alas, there's no money in the budget to convert the cars yet. The article outlines a lot of improvements to LD service; extra cars on the Auto Train, Thruway bus to Winnipeg for the Empire Builder, Thruway bus service to Denver for the Southwest Chief, to natchez for the City of new Orleans. But they all are pipe dreams because of lack of money, lack of equipment, or in the case of the SWC, not knowing if the train will even exist soon.
Posts: 510 | From: Richmond VA USA | Registered: Mar 2004
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Would it really cost anything to convert that lower level to biz class seating? I guess it depends on what Amtrak's definition is of business class. All they need to do is remove the stuff that's in that lower level area now, and replace it with standard coach seats. Amtrak's coach seats and legroom on Superliners is equivalent to domestic First Class and Int'l Business Class on the airlines (and oftentimes roomier than some airlines).
So I guess what I'm wondering is this: Is Amtrak's definition of biz class a coach seat in an 'exclusive' seating area? Or is it a special seat that comes with extra amenities?
I'll have to think about the PPC idea for those passengers. On a normal summer day, there are four sleepers and they are always completely booked, plus there are passengers in the trans/dorm as well. I don't think the PPC can handle any more passengers. It might make that car uncomfortable and too crowded.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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I would likely buy a Business Class seat on the Starlight for a trip between Seattle and Portland. I'm guessing that there are folks who would also spend the money on a trip between LA and San Jose. The current Business Class supplement between Seattle and Portland is $17. I would gladly spend that much for access to the PPC (and I wouldn't expect a free lunch, either).
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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quote:Originally posted by Jerome Nicholson: But they all are pipe dreams because of lack of money, lack of equipment, or in the case of the SWC, not knowing if the train will even exist soon.
What's that all about then?
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Why dilute your revenue yield offering Parlour Car access for a Business Class fare?
Mr. Smith notes that when Starlight has four Sleeper lines as well as some overflow into the T-Dorm, the Parlour is mighty busy at such time. If someone wants their "luxojourney", make 'em pay for a Day Roomette. It is my understanding that such space is usually available on the SJC-LAX segment.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I concur, GBN. On our CS trip this summer the PPC was unpleasantly full for most of our trip from SLO to EMY.
Why not just upgrade the lower level of one of the coaches as BC. Maybe install 2/1 seating and invite them to wine tasting to justify the added fare.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Whatever happend to the plan for a "coffee bar", to sell Starbuck-like coffee, in the Pacific Parlor Car? I always hoped Starbucks would contract for a caffee bar on most Amtrak LD trains. I want to try their 7 dollar coffee.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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I don't think an espresso machine would be profitable on LD trains. Those machines are pretty pricey and it takes a good amount of skill to make a decent latte or cappuccino. If the barista isn't trained properly, the results will be dreadful. Amtrak should spend the time to learn to serve an excellent cup of drip coffee, however. Quality beans, freshly ground and brewed in a machine that is properly maintained will produce an excellent cup of coffee at very little cost.
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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I can attest from personal experience that Starbucks coffee tastes like something scraped from old oil sumps.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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The specialty coffee machines that Amtrak purchased for the PPCs cost $10,000 per machine. They bought five of them. They are a European-made brand that are specifically for use on a train. Most European trains use this exact same machine. So, what's the catch??? Well......you have to use a special cleaner and it MUST be cleaned and maintained properly. Now just try to imagine for a moment----an AmClerk in some obscure office back east trying to figure out how to order a European cleaner for a machine that they know nothing about. Combine that with AmEmployees who really don't give a *#&% about following proper cleansing procedure, add in some complex controls to make various types of coffee drinks, and what's the outcome? The outcome is that you now have $50,000 worth of coffee machines sitting around broken, dirty, and a big waste of money. And THAT is the exact story on what happened. Very predictable from the get-go. I told this to Brian Rosenwald while on-board the official "Re-launch" of the Starlight, and he gave me a confused look as if to say, "What do you mean it won't work???". He's a nice guy who has done lots of great things, but I don't think he ever understood the limitations of the employees.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Smitty...thanks for the in-depth analysis. Interesting.
I can remember coffee on several pre-Amtrak trains..always excellent. Why can't they, at least, brew coffee at that level? The stuff in the little nook, at the end of your sleeping car, is pretty bad.
By the way, it has been said that the cardboard cup holder, at Starbucks, costs more than the coffee inside the cup. Perhaps an exception, now, is their 7 dollar coffee. I do like, however, Starbuck coffee. I think a few Amtrak stations have a Starbucks in or near the train sation but I'm not sure which stations.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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The coffee that used to be used in the sleepers was Green Mountain coffee. Good stuff. They switched to something else, which is not very good. And Starbucks?? Blah!! It tastes so incredibly bitter and burnt to me.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Smitty, A thorough cleaning of the coffeemaker would be a help. (That would require a sink much deeper than the one in that nook or in the bathroom across the hall.) I also agree that Green Mountain is way better than Starbucks.
Posts: 460 | From: North Central CT | Registered: May 2004
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The last train I was on used the red bag Community coffee. And why would anyone clean a percolating coffee pot??? You ruin the flavor by cleaning it!
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Let's hear it for Green Mountain. That's my son's account with his ad firm. And of course I agree it is much better than Starbuck's. Amtrak should at least serve this on the Vermonter and at least one of its stops has a GM coffee shop in the station. HQ is in Waterbury/Stowe.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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I didn't know Green Mountain had its own coffee shops! That must be an east coast thing, because we don't have them out here. However, I do go to Bed Bath and Beyond to purchase those little K-Cups for my Keurig coffee brewer. Good stuff!
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Oh okay, thanks. I'll bet it smells realllllllly good when you walk in the door.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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I tried to find Green Mountain coffee at Safeway..not there. I took Smitty's advice and went to Bed/Bath and found the little Green Mountain pods. I will have to see if it's better than Starbuck's coffee.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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A lot of large coffee roasters over roast their beans. As the volatile oils burn off of the beans they take much of the flavor with them leaving bitterness behind.
Posts: 229 | From: Long Beach CA | Registered: Jan 2007
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yukon: That's great! I think you will enjoy it very much. They have different "blends", and the one I prefer is the same one that the Amtrak sleepers used, which is "Nantucket Blend". Let us know how you like it.
cubzo: So that explains the bitterness of Starbucks. I don't understand how they managed to become so famous and popular. When I walk into a Starbucks (with someone else---I never go on my own), that burnt coffee smell is not very inviting in my opinion. Much different when walking into a Peet's, or even a Dunkin Donuts.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Smitty, Why do you have to have a coffee maker specifically for use on a train. Why can't you use the same machine that you use at home? What's different about a train? Surely the motion isn't enough to upset the process.
Tom
Posts: 518 | From: Maynard, MA, USA | Registered: Sep 2000
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Smitty, I got the Green Mountain Coffee called "Dark Magic". I don't have a pod coffee maker, so I emptied 3 pod cups into my coffee machine and filled it to the 2.5 cup range with water. It came out very strong and bitter..maybe I made it too strong. I didn't like it. Next time I will try "Nantucket Blend". They also had something called "Breakfast Blend"..has anyone tried that one?
For a very mild, non-bitter coffee, here is a link to "Elephant Coffee". At $50 per cup and for other reasons, I think I will let it pass.
posted
I took the advise to go to Bed, Bath, & Beyond, bought the Green Mountain Nantucket Blend and it DOES taste like Amtrak coffee!!!! It is very expensive, $12 for 18 cups of coffee!
Looks like I have some occasional coffee for work. No way will I spend this much on my regular morning breakfast coffee (2.5 pounds of beans for $14 is good enough).
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Mike, if you are buying the pod coffee for Keurig type coffee makers, it is very expensive, although certainly convenient. For that reason, since we drink a full pot each day, we buy the bag coffee direct from GM and their coffee club . It costs us $7.76 per bag (plus shipping) for the Nantucket Blend and two bags lasts us 5-6 weeks.
We have tried the breakfast blend and it's way too weak for us.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Thanks, Palmland! I really do not want to join a coffee club, but I can make an exception.
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Ah, I did not know about the coffee club and being able to buy Nantucket Blend in bags. Thanks for the tip.
yukon: Yes, the Breakfast Blend is weak and in my opinion is not as good as the AmCoffee (aka: Nantucket Blend). It's funny, the first few times I had it at home, I felt like I was in an Amtrak sleeper. Once you taste it, you'll instantly recognize the taste and you will KNOW you've got the right AmCoffee.
As far as why a special coffee machine for a train??? I have no clue! I didn't even think to ask Mr. Rosenwald why that's the case. It must have something "special" about it since the darn thing was 5000 bucks per machine. I wish I had an answer to your question, but unfortunately, I do not.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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$14 for a 12 oz bag of coffee is EXPENSIVE!!!
Looks like it will be a Saturday or Sunday treat for TZ & I.
My normal brew is $14 for a 40oz bag of beans from Sam's Club (Columbian breakfast blend).
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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What's wrong with my $7.49 a can of Folgers at Wally World? Seems like nine of those take care of me for a year. Darn, had to order some replacement decanters this year from Mr. Coffee.
Grief; coffee is coffee - but lest not anyone say "wine is wine'.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I'm witcha on the Folgers, GBN. My specialty is Half-Caff. My cardiologist limits me to one cup of java a day so I figured two of Half-Caff wouldn't be cheating.
Posts: 2236 | From: Evanston, Ill. and Ontonagon, Mich. | Registered: Feb 2007
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posted
GBN, not a thing wrong with Folgers. But that is a good analogy. We feel as strongly about coffee as you do wine. I dare say Yellow Tail (our daily table wine) wouldn't be your top varietal. And of course it's nice to support our son too.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Mr.Norman and Henry: as much as I appreciate your acumen regarding train and railroad subjects, I wouldn't want to go to a coffee pub with you. Folgers?...you've got to be kidding! Folgers vs. Starbucks or any premium coffee is like Volkswagen vs. Maserati!
I tried Yellow Tail after Consumer Reports gave it a great rating. I would not buy it again. You can get many Califorinia wines at an inexpensive price, and they are better than many other more expensive wines bottled elsewhere. I guess I am showing my No. Calif. bias. One of the few positive things I can say, these days, about living in Calif.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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I agree about the coffee thing. Folgers?? No thank you. I'm not a "Starbucks snob", just a coffee snob.
I am not a wine drinker (or alcohol, for that matter, save once in a blue moon), but I agree with Consumer Reports not always getting things right. I've been a subscriber for probably 25 years now, and I have sort of learned what to trust and not trust. I'm a car nut, and one of CR's major complaints about every Mercedes Benz vehicle is "complicated controls". What a joke! I guess the controls are complicated if you've lived in a cave for the last 50 years, but besides that, they are NOT complicated. As a matter of fact, they are about as easy as they come. But look at a CR review of any Mercedes Benz, and in the "Lows" column, you will always see that note. They are way off-base on that.
Posts: 2355 | From: Pleasanton, CA | Registered: Apr 2007
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Since I retired, I seem to wander into various local independent cafes most every morning for coffee. Mugs only! None of that paper cup nonsense. Also good for hand warming this time of year.
Most of the independent cafes also buy from local independent coffee distributors, who seem to also have the best coffee. Peace Coffee is my favorite. They deliver by bicycle.
I also detest Starbuck's, and I loved the Green Mountain Amtrak coffee.
Posts: 1572 | From: St. Paul, MN | Registered: Dec 2002
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Folgers is for when you cannot get any good coffee; it will do in a pinch. I prefer something more robust. And it aint starbucks!!!
Posts: 1418 | From: Houston, Republic of Texas | Registered: Jan 2001
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Perhaps we should all pick up our coffee cups and return to a discussion on Amtrak.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Starbucks? ain't that the place I go when out of town to get my New York Times?
Funny though, the last time I set foot in a Starbucks was this past September in Fredericksburg VA. After going to Mickey D's for Breakfast (Marriott Fairfield's is so bad that I'll just pass on it; there's a Courtyard downtown, but this Fairfield is closer to my friends in Woodford along VA 2 and on the perimeter of AP Hill), I then drove to Starbucks for my Times. Didn't have one, but a really nice lady working there (what do they call them; Barrista or something?) said just go South on US1 to a Wawa and they will have it.
They did; no need to set foor in a Starbucks anymore in Fredericksburg.
Actually, there is a Starbucks here in town; no "tables with a view" as at Quinn's - my place. I've never purchased a comestible product there; only a Times and Journal once or twice when a substitute carrier "messes up".
Finally Mr. Palmland, I find Yellow Tail and other Australian varietals in that price range to be quite drinkable and represent good value
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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