posted
(Continued from the Coast Starlight in June thread - to avoid going too far off-track there)
There was mention somewhere that using electronic fare cards would save money on paper tickets - I'm pretty sure various operators have used this excuse. Well, in some ways perhaps it does save a small amount of money as customers effectively "buy" a smartcard instead of getting a paper one "for free". So your $1.50 fare is entirely for the fare instead of 1c for the paper ticket.
But of course it's not as simple as that. Apparently LA mostly relied on the honor system - no turnstiles, just random spot checks with hefty fines for not having an appropriate ticket. That latter seemed to be enough to keep the suspected fare dodging down to a minimum, at least as far as the number of people actually caught fare-dodging.
But with smartcards comes all the hardware. Turnstiles at every station that are computers - complex electronic and mechanical devices that have to be maintained and built for rugged use - even against vandalism. You'll probably have to have a roving warden to help people, and to open the turnstiles in an emergency, so that's an additional cost that might not have been there before.
And what of the fares? Sometimes people would pay more than they actually needed to, just to be sure, or maybe because their plans changed. Taking London as an example again, fares vary but let's say I would pay $4 for a single journey, and I expect to make two. But my plans change so I end up paying $12 for three journeys. Yet a one day travelcard might only be $10, so I've overspent by $2. This is where the smartcard comes in: it caps the daily spend by whatever the appropriate travelcard would have cost. End result? I'm charged $10 maximum instead of the $12 I would have paid. I'm happy and I'm better off; the transit company just got less money though!
Pros and cons to smartcards. But I feel they do present a barrier to visitors and tourists who just want a quick ride, without faffing around with deposits for fare cards that have to be reclaimed at the end of their journey.
Great statistical data for analysis for the transit company though. We know who you are and where you live (if you register your smartcard so you can get it cancelled and reissued should you lose it), and we know when and where you go. Big Brother is watching!
-------------------- Geoff M. Posts: 2426 | From: Apple Valley, CA | Registered: Sep 2000
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posted
I wholly concur with your thoughts, Mr. Mayo.
For reference, my two "angels" to navigate the Miami and Atlanta systems was first a sworn (packing heat) security officer who would not touch my money. At Atlanta, "angel" was a twentysomething passenger to whom I gave him my $5 and he gave me back a properly loaded (took him all of ten seconds to do so) smart card that got me my two rides on MARTA.
I'm inclined to think there are two different demographics to consider those who ride the regional real rail systems (Metrolink) and those who ride the municipal Metro systems. For the demographic on the regional systems, farebeating is simply not worth it; those who do are probably motivated for thrill of it, i.e. think shoplifting in Beverly Hills.
However all too many who ride the municipal systems are motivated by survival, or this farebeat is whether or not my kids get to eat tonight. The need and temptation on a municipal system far outweighs that on the regionals, so stronger countermeasures must be employed.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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posted
As my wife pointed out in Seattle where we bought the day pass as opposed to the $5 plus fare ORCA card, those who would try to beat the fare on a light rail train are the same folks who would be least likely to readily pay a $150 or higher citation for riding without a validated ticket.
Are the additional expenses of trying to enforce such a system recouped in citation collection?
And GBN, I am in Atlanta two to four times a year. I usually keep my reloadable 'Breeze' card tucked in a pocket of my modest shoulder bag (holds what I need for up to 5 days away) for quick access to MARTA when I'm going.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
The $5 day pass in Seattle is good only on the light rail system. It does not allow transfers to buses or the streetcar network. The fine for riding without a valid fare is $124*, but first time violators are given a warning and an explanation of the system rules. The compliance rate seems to be pretty high; enforcement checks are pretty regular and few people seem to get caught when I'm riding.
The advantages of electronic fare cards are that they make it easier to quickly load passengers by reducing cash handling on the bus and at the base, plus they allow drivers to concentrate on their highest priority: safely operating the vehicle, not collecting fares. But full service TVMs that dispense electronic fare cards can cost up to $40,000 each plus the cost of installation, servicing and licensing. The systems are purchased/licensed from a vendor that charges a fee for keeping the system updated and running smoothly while managing the funds for the transit system and its riders. So there is a huge cost to set up the system and a lot of overhead in the operation and maintenance of the system. Seattle's $5 fee for the electronic card is the highest in the nation (most systems charge about $2) and has been a barrier for tourists and people struggling to make ends meet. A recent ORCA card give-away in my neighborhood had a huge line hours before the scheduled start time.
quote: I am in Atlanta two to four times a year. I usually keep my reloadable 'Breeze' card tucked in a pocket of my modest shoulder bag (holds what I need for up to 5 days away) for quick access to MARTA when I'm going.
Yup, I've got Clipper card for Bay Area transit in my travel drawer upstairs. If the southbound Starlight is on time at Oakland/Jack London station, it's an easy walk to the ferry terminal and a short wait for the ferry to SF. Very pleasant and the ferry fare can be paid for with the Clipper card. The Clipper card has to be pre-loaded, however, because the card reader at the Oakland ferry terminal does not revalue cards.
*For comparison, the fine for crossing the 520 bridge without paying an electronic toll is $40 (no first time warning, however) and the fine for public consumption of marijuana is $100 (possession of up to 1 ounce by adults is legal in WA).
Posts: 831 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jan 2011
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posted
On my occasional trips on L.A.'s system, I've always found the "honor system" hilarious.
Invariably, the car is respectably crowded, sometimes standing room only. Then the train pulls into the next station, the doors open, and a cop steps into the car shouting, "Tickets please!"
Invariably, 99% of the passengers suddenly decide that -- holy sh*t!!! -- this is their stop after all! En mass, they quickly skulk toward the exits like shoplifters sneaking out of Macy's.
Several times, I've been the only ticket-holding passenger remaining in the car.
As for fare cards. . . .
There's a downside. New York recently institute a "new card" charge above and beyond the actual fare. While the cards are refillable, they're flimsy, which means frequent riders are hit by the extra charge whenever their current card decides to bite the dust.
Thanks to the way the fare payment kiosks are programmed, many cards also end up with weird balances of, say, seven or twelve or twenty-three cents.
Many thousands of cards containing these balances are damaged, lost, or tossed each year. Which means the MTA pockets millions in unused fares.
posted
First, I am grateful for senior fares on public transit, and while it isn't a necessity right now for me, it may be some day. But as a tourist in Los Angeles, it was a little upsetting to have to buy a fare card for $1 in order to take two rides that cost 25 cents each. I know that ratio isn't true for most people, but if out of towners have to buy a fare card for an out and back one day use, they might just forget it and keep a lot of dollars they would have spent on attractions, food, souvenirs and other things. The charge seems counter productive to me.
-------------------- Railrev Escondido, CA Posts: 99 | From: Escondido, California | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
Add me to the long list of those who absolutely DETEST these electronic fare cards. The Big Brother aspect is what bothers me the most. Also, there is no way for the holder to easily see exactly how much money is left on the card -- unlike the old paper BART cards, which just had a magnetic tripe that activated the fare gates. I MUCH prefer paper tickets! With those you can easily have barrier-free operations, and single-ride, round-trip, day passes, 10-ride, 20-ride and monthly passes. What could be better?
(I know: my way requires on-board ticket checkers, but I much prefer that to the barriers and high costs and Big Brother personal tracking that electronic fare cards allow or require.)
I prefer the KISS principle: Keep It Simple, Stupid!
Posts: 211 | From: California | Registered: Dec 2004
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