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I doubt if this article breaks any ground with those already informed of passenger train affairs, that it appears in a publication circulated along the Northeast Corridor, raises the knowledge level of the political environment in which Amtrak operates.
It broke little ground with me; but it did with me insofar as its reference to the All Aboard Florida initiative. I had been leaning away from my earlier contention that AAF was simply a ploy to "fatten up the steer" for a sale of the FEC Ry. to a public agency, as the railroad, while making money on railroad operations, was being buried under debt service costs from a leveraged buyout, where in such the equity once held by shareholders is converted to debt so that the remaining shareholders (usually "closely held") will either make "heap big wampum" or "loose their shirts' eliminating the middle ground. Now I have learned that FEC is doing so well that it is making money even after its debt service costs, and I'm certain that the closely held group wishes to maintain its ownership.
The article noted that the FEC, through one subsidiary or the other, still holds valuable tracts of land - especially the six or so acres in Downtown Miami that once was the site of their station. After laying dormant for some fifty years used only as a parking lot, the owners have now decided to develop that property into a mixed use facility. Touting that there will soon be a high speed Orlando-Miami rail line terminating in the building's basement, can only help stir up interest in the development. Of course, when the rail service becomes stillborn, as I still believe will be the case, the interest, and tenancies, have been stirred up and signatures obtained on the leases.
This is not the first time in history that passenger trains have been used to stir up public interest. That started with Henry Flagler, continued with Robert R. Young, and now the latest being this All Aboard Florida whatever.
Finally, Mike, please forgive me for moving the discussion away from where I believe you intended to have it travel. If you choose, I will move this material to one of our All Aboard Florida related topics.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Quite all right, Gil. I did note with some interest that the article did come across as essentially in your corner regarding FEC's motives behind some of their doings.
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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So which of the following is most likely to happen first (if at all).....
A) AAF begins service to MCO. B) Business Class in a dome is offered on the IP Hoosier State. C) Amtrak service returns to Rockford and Dubuque.
-------------------- David Pressley
Advocating for passenger trains since 1973!
Climbing toward 5,000 posts like the Southwest Chief ascending Raton Pass. Cautiously, not nearly as fast as in the old days, and hoping to avoid premature reroutes. Posts: 4203 | From: Western North Carolina | Registered: Feb 2004
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How realistic can any Florida rail service of any kind be if it plans to terminate in a basement in Miami? The ocean level already has risen so much that, as I read a while ago, the main highway connecting Miami with the island east of Miami where very wealthy people live is already permanently partly flooded. The entire state of Florida is at a very low elevation. Such a basement station will -- at some point -- be permanently flooded, and thus rendered unusable.
I think Mr. Norman's first thoughts about the real reasons behind AAF are spot on, and have not changed one iota.
It's all about land development -- playing Monopoly, but with real people's lives.
Sigh.....
Posts: 211 | From: California | Registered: Dec 2004
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Originally posted by MargaretSPfan: The entire state of Florida is at a very low elevation.
I left Deer Park, NY with an average elevation of 75 feet above sea level and moved to Marion County, FL with an average elevation of the same 75 feet above sea level. Guess I'm ok for a while.
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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OK; it looks like Jimmy the Greek and his various colleagues at Ladbrokes, Vegas, and elsewhere have come to this discussion, here's mine - and why:
B: Iowa Pacific operation of Hoosier State and with a premium class of service: 90%, the people of the State of Indiana will not save a dime, but just one more chance for Conservatives to say they "privatized" something. The premium service might provide a Dinner Train experience for some, and I'm certain IP will inaugurate it - even if it simply is one more chance for their "foaming" management clique to have their joyrides. But any Chi-Indy service is confronted with the same problem; 5 hr v. 3.25.
A: All Aboard Florida as originally presented, i.e. for private sector accounts Miami-Orlando: 0%; with some kind of public funding? 10%.
C: Return of the Black Hawk: 0% with the Republican governor "shaking up Springfield"; once the Dems start in with a "To bring our state back to the people' and are successful (as I think will be the case; Rauner is lone Republican amongst a sea of Democrats), Mr. Vincent's 25%.
D: Sunset East: 0%; even the grass root advocates have given up.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I just don't understand why so many on this forum are at best skeptical and others hostile to the plans of AAF.
Yes they want to develop their real estate. Why is that bad? Henry Flagler understood a century ago that a railroad attracts people and increases the value of the property which bring more people as development occurs which in turn helps the railroad. And why is it bad that they are trying not to use your tax dollars to build this railroad? Lets hope they succeed as a successful development and railroad means more jobs. But if they fail, it's their money, not yours nor our government's.
As to the basement station in Miami. Their website says:
"The transportation hub will include mixed-use development with residential, office, commercial, and a retail concourse, while serving as a connector between All Aboard Florida’s passengers and Miami’s existing public transport systems. ... In Miami, the passenger rail system will be elevated 50 feet to align with existing public transportation systems, with retail spaces located beneath the tracks. "
The artist rendering seems to show exactly that, above the street. So, when the ocean rises, the residents can ride the train out of town!
I think we are all on this forum because we enjoy and support passenger trains. If this venture is a way to have more of the public use and appreciate them, then I'm all for it.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Mr. Palmland; it is not hostility on my part, but rather reality.
True, I'm not as enthusiastic about riding trains as are many around here, but I see this service being announced simultaneously with the decision that now is the time to develop the property at "First and First" in Miami. The area, reached through the Government Center Metro Rail and Mover station, is presently "not the greatest", but I'm confident that the development will be the "shot in the arm" to making a once moribund area as vibrant as any in a vibrant city.
I concur with your statement that a passenger railroad brings people. In the region, within my memory the SAL West Palm-Miami was "out in the Styx". Today it is not thanks in great part to Tri Rail. But to contemplate an intercity service, first proposed to be up and running at this time, then gradually yet consistently being set back both for start up and route, is just indicative of a PR Shop making up things as they go along.
The whole charade simply smacks me as flim-flammery that the railroad industry has not seen since the days of Robert R. Young and Pat McGinnis. They may have prospective tenants of First and First believing - and that believing could well last through the signing of leases.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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GBN, Bet you a steak at Miller's that AAF succeeds in some level of service on the FEC with the new stations between West Palm and Miami by 2017. As for the extension to Orlando, that might have to be a bet down the road.
Posts: 2397 | From: Camden, SC | Registered: Mar 2006
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Sounds good Mr. Palmland; you and Miss Mary have not been around these parts of late.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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