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Has anyone heard whether or not the Coast Starlight has been affected by the Oroville Dam flooding and spillover, in N. Calif.?
It looks like it has been a concern for UP trains. From the LA Times:
"Union Pacific has stopped train service through cities affected by the Oroville Dam emergency."
"The railroad said it is unable to run trains and provide service between Roseville, Chico and Oroville due to the risk of flooding. Trains approaching Roseville are being rerouted."
“We are watching the situation closely to determine if trains will need to be rerouted around the closures", the railroad said.
*************************************** Another rain storm is due tomorrow. My back yard lawn looks like a lagoon.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
Mr. A. Richard, the Oroville Dam situation will affect anything routed over the Western Pacific. Save the Zephyr and maybe a local or two, the UP has two one way railroads over the Sierras, just as they do through Nevada.
So far as your water supply goes out there, it must be a relief to know that the drought is a non-issue for at least this year. Only problem is why can't it come as showers rather than a deluge, so that it gradually enters your water management system just as does the runoff from the Sierras.
I further understand that around Santa Barbara, there remain drought conditions, but Frank knows more about that than what I read in the papers.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I have a friend in Sonoma County, I believe the Russian River is nearby. Not familiar with NorCal geography - how far from Oroville to Santa Rosa?
Posts: 1530 | From: Ocala, FL | Registered: Dec 2006
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Mike - Oroville is northeast of Santa Rosa, about 160 miles in driving distance.
The Russian River has flooded many areas. The water level is as high as it has been in over 10 years.
I saw a blurb on CBS news, Sacramento, that both northbound and southbound Coast Starlight passengers were bused around the evacuation areas. The news item was for the evening of Feb 12th. I haven't heard any further news since then.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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Our little corner of the world is STILL in Exceptional Drought Conditions. We have had some good rains but nothing like those North and South of us. Our principal water supply, Lake Cachuma, remains at less than 20% of capacity. So, I don't see any changes in our rather strict rationing any time soon.
I always joke that one of the reasons we spend so much time on cruise ships is so we can have good, long showers and not feel guilty.
Frank in sunny and cool SBA.
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Frank; surprised, but I did read that in the papers as well as see it on TV news. I understand Kern County (Bakersfield, desert) is awash. Perhaps they are part of the aqueduct system that it would appear your county opted out of.
But who am I to speculate; I last set foot in Cali during 1991. We also have in our membership around here both a Civil and Hydrological Engineer.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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"The squeaking wheel gets the grease" Unfortunately some problems don't squeak, they just go straight into failure. This wheel had not been squeaking until now.
There may be others that are better, but in the series of pictures in https://www.yahoo.com/news/california-crews-rush-fix-dam-storms-hit-013713186.html in pictures 12 and 17 the location of the washout and its seriousness can be seen. In a picture in another location it appears that the initial failure was in the floor of the channel. By the time of the picture in this reference the washout had taken out part of the side of the channel as well. Regardless of cause, if the failure migrates upward to the top of the spillway, it will be disastrous. It is effectively the overtopping of an earthfill dam. When that occurs the water flow does not stop until the reservoir is drained.
If the issues that led to this failure had been fixed such that this failure did not occur, no one would have noticed. I have long since learned that good engineering is invisible.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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Back on the rails, building this Dam resulted in loss of a very scenic portion of the CZ route. Of course the relocated line was touted as the equal of passing through the deepest canyon on the Western Pacific Feather River Route, but based on my 1963 Zephyr ride, it wasn't.
However, to pass out duly deserved credit, who would have ever heard of the Western Pacific were they not designated to market the Zephyr. They would have been a road as "visible" as, say, the Katy or the Frisco. But on the flip side to that, they were the road during 1969 that effectively killed the Zephyr when they "got out".
But sorry, I give the scenic edge to the SP Donner Pass - the marketing to the Feather River.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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IIRC anything moving through downtown Sacramento could be at hazard. Looking at the topographic version of Googlemaps, I note the California State Railroad Museum is river side, and the area is flat enough that downtown could be flooded.
That would impact 5-6, 11-14, ad infinitum...
Posts: 1404 | Registered: Oct 2001
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Frank, maybe this current "inch an hour" rainstorm will help out in SB County.
LA County had the foresight 80 or so years ago to realize that if they were to become a "megapolis", water supply would need to address. Why your county did not join that initiative escapes me.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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What Los Angeles did was shameful. They literally stole the water from the Owens Valley. You might want to watch "Chinatown".
The problem here is not so much the water supply but the uncontrolled growth -- especially in Goleta to the West of us. That is not to say that Santa Barbara is without sin. In the almost 60 years I've lived here the density of population has doubled or tripled.
On another topic yesterday's slide that led to the closure of Highway 101 northbound at La Conchita (Between Ventura and Carpinteria.) did not seem to much affect rail traffic. On the other hand, SBA (Which is West of here surrounded by Goleta but in the City of Santa Barbara -- That's another story of theft!) closed mid-afternoon due to extensive flooding but was expected to reopen this morning at 7:30AM.)
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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I think water is going to be a major political football this whole century. There has been proposals to pipe water down from Alaska to Calif. and the Southwest (subsea pipline proposal). Maybe it's time to think along those lines. I have a hunch that desalinization plants are going to be expensive. However, on the other hand, I don't think a subsea pipline project will be cheap.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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As you can see from the article you cited, we DID build a desal plant in 1991, the last time we had a dry spell like we have been in for the last six years. It was never used to supply water to city residents aside from some bottling for show purposes.
The "powers that be" allowed the plant to fall into disrepair including selling off some parts. The technology, especially from Israel and the Middle East, rapidly advanced during the same time frame.
So, we are basically building a new plant that should be online shortly. It won't be the full answer but it should help some. Restricting water usage and development will be the key elements of a solution.
People often forget that this "lush oasis", this "America's Riviera", is actually very close to fitting the classic definition of a desert. Most of the thirsty vegetation has been introduced. The Chumash and the Spanish and Mexican settlers didn't have swimming pools or lush green lawns.
OK, I'm off my soap box.
Frank in dry for the moment SBA.
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Frank, thanks for the heads up regarding Chinatown . It's presently available on Starz to which I subscribe.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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I haven't seen it myself in quite awhile. Quite a bit of it is fiction but much of it is based on William Mullholland and the story of the LA Aqueduct.
If you've ever seen pictures of the Japanese-American Internment Camp at Manzanar you've seen the desolation that was left in the Owens Valley after the water rights were taken. Manzanar is Spanish for "Apple Orchard". No more apples.
Frank in cloudy SBA
P.S. Amtrak service WAS suspended for much of the day yesterday but was expected to reopen tonight.
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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WAAAAY off topic, Frank, but this reminds me of a very poignant discovery I had while I was in college - likely about 1963.
I had the pleasure to socialize with a girl of Japanese descent ("nice while it lasted") who was a "natural" US citizen (she could be POTUS) but whose Mother and Father were "Naturalized". She was born somewhere in Eastern Oregon at an "Internment Camp".
I had never heard of such until then - quite an eye opener.
Corlis, I know you have "done OK" in this life.
Posts: 9975 | From: Clarendon Hills, IL USA (BNSF Chicago Sub MP 18.71) | Registered: Apr 2002
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Having been born and raised in California I have had many friends who were either born in the camps or who had family who were there.
Perhaps the most memorable was a colleague at my school. She was a student at the same school when she was called out of class and told to leave her books behind. She and her parents were sent by train to Los Angeles, then the Santa Anita Race Track and, finally Manzanar where she graduated from High School.
When I was teaching a 9th Grade Semester Class (It backed up to Civics/Government) called "Youth and the Law" I would often have Florence come in to talk about her experience. The kids never saw her as the same person. They were all able to identify with what she had experienced at their age, in the same school.
Ironically, my Principal at the time was born in Italy and had immigrated to Santa Barbara with his parents as a five year old. He was not yet a citizen when the War started but was not sent to a camp. He did have to obey a curfew for "Foreign Nationals" but it was easy to evade since he looked like everyone else. Santa Barbara, at that time, had such a large Italian population nobody questioned them -- or their loyalty.
Frank in damp SBA where the trains are running again.
Posts: 2160 | From: Santa Barbara, CA, USA | Registered: Oct 2003
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Continuing that thought: Quite a few, in fact by now quite a lot, of years ago I worked with a guy about my age of Japanese ancestry who was also about my age (born 1944). His family was California Central Valley farmers. He hand been born in one of these camps. They did not have a lot bad to say about it. But then their neighbors worked the land so that they did not lose it. This "internment" was also beneficial in some ways. There were quite a few incidents of Asian looking people in California getting beat up by the California equivalent of KKK meatheads because these idiots thought they were Japanese even if they were Chinese or Filipino.
Japanese and other Asians of draftable age during WW2 were called up, but in an act of true good sense by our government when deployed overseas were sent to Europe.
One thing I did learn that was a total surprise was that there was a long time that people of Asian ancestry could not own land in California. That was a total surprise as there was no restriction that I know of preventing Black Freedmen from owning land in most of Southern states pre War Between the States.
As to your Italian, consider that Eisenhower is a German name.
Posts: 2808 | From: Olive Branch MS | Registered: Nov 2002
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quote:Originally posted by George Harris: "The squeaking wheel gets the grease" Unfortunately some problems don't squeak, they just go straight into failure. This wheel had not been squeaking until now.
If the issues that led to this failure had been fixed such that this failure did not occur, no one would have noticed. I have long since learned that good engineering is invisible.
********************************** I agree George. Here is an excerpt form an article in "The Atlantic":
"In 2005, a trio of environmental groups filed a complaint with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, saying the emergency spillway was unsafe, The Mercury News reports. Their worry proved prophetic: The groups said in the event of heavy rain and flooding, the hillside would wash out and produce flooding downstream. They asked that the auxiliary spillway be paved with concrete, like the primary one. But the federal government rejected the request after consulting with the state and local agencies involved in the water system, which said they did not believe the upgrades were needed."
I may be a little cynical, but it seems politicians seem to endorse engineering projects which end with cutting a ribbon, on the 5PM news, with the politician visible and taking credit.
Anyway, if the weather people are accurate, we may be in for 2 weeks of sunshine starting this Friday.
Richard
Posts: 1909 | From: Santa Rosa | Registered: Jan 2004
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